Crean Recruitment in the Midwest?

[Bobman1 2,909]

look at our roster, Our top two scorers are from the state of Indiana. Troy is from the east coast. TB is from the east coast. Holt is from the East Coast. Hanner is from Columbia. CH is from the Midwest and so is DD. Our top players are from the Midwest and the East Coast and I think we should continue to recruit those regions of the USA.

[Old Friend 8,389]

If kids from the Midwest were better at basketball than everybody else, wouldn't the majority of NBA players be from the midwest?  I'm sorry, but your assertion is full of bias instead of fact.

Ah...I understand.  It's all about NBA-type players; not good college players.   We don't need kids like Jordan Hulls, Steve Alford, Michael Lewis, or AJ Guyton.  We need NBA prospects from big cities who are good with the ball in their hands and come to IU to showcase themselves.  That's what everybody wants to watch.  That's our DNA.  That's what we should be recruiting at Indiana, while teams like Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Purdue run roughshod over us with midwest kids.  Makes complete sense.  Understanding the game doesn't matter.   Knowing how to play both the "sport" and the "game" don't matter.   Being sound fundamentally don't matter.  Nor does being smart because turnovers and bad shots are "part of the game."   We need Russell Westbrook, who takes 43 shots to get 54 points in a game.  Making others around you better doesn't matter.  There's no good reason dozens of college coaches target kids from Indiana every year.     Bias?  You've got to be kidding me.  That's uninformed and ignorant.   Even if I were simply biased toward kids here, I'm also right.

 

The majority of NBA players?  I think that's a bit of a reach simply due to the mass population of big cities, but take a good hard look at the league, and let me know how many you see that ARE from the midwest and Indiana in particular.    NBA players per-capita?   I think this little map will show you everything you need to know.   http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/11/12/7202561/nba-birthplace-map-washington-dc-mississippi

 

So...let's cut out the myth that Indiana needs to recruit anywhere but right around here.  There is plenty of talent, including NBA talent, let alone high-level college talent right around here.  And let's never bring in another kid who doesn't understand where he is or go to Texas to get a 6'9" kid who "can shoot."   (I think there are kids in Indiana who can shoot a little, but maybe I'm biased)   Or Arizona to get a last-minute signee because he's tall.   And let's not accuse someone of bias when there is actually plenty of solid evidence that proves my point.   Do you need me to list just the kids from Indiana that have gone to Michigan State, Ohio State, and Michigan in the last decade?   Heck, we'd have won at least 2 more Big Ten titles with half of just THOSE kids.   Let alone anyone else.   

[Iufan2324 158]

Ah...I understand. It's all about NBA-type players; not good college players. We don't need kids like Jordan Hulls, Steve Alford, Michael Lewis, or AJ Guyton. We need NBA prospects from big cities who are good with the ball in their hands and come to IU to showcase themselves. That's what everybody wants to watch. That's our DNA. That's what we should be recruiting at Indiana, while teams like Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Purdue run roughshod over us with midwest kids. Makes complete sense. Understanding the game doesn't matter. Knowing how to play both the "sport" and the "game" don't matter. Being sound fundamentally don't matter. Nor does being smart because turnovers and bad shots are "part of the game." We need Russell Westbrook, who takes 43 shots to get 54 points in a game. Making others around you better doesn't matter. There's no good reason dozens of college coaches target kids from Indiana every year. Bias? You've got to be kidding me. That's uninformed and ignorant. Even if I were simply biased toward kids here, I'm also right.

The majority of NBA players? I think that's a bit of a reach simply due to the mass population of big cities, but take a good hard look at the league, and let me know how many you see that ARE from the midwest and Indiana in particular. NBA players per-capita? I think this little map will show you everything you need to know. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/11/12/7202561/nba-birthplace-map-washington-dc-mississippi

So...let's cut out the myth that Indiana needs to recruit anywhere but right around here. There is plenty of talent, including NBA talent, let alone high-level college talent right around here. And let's never bring in another kid who doesn't understand where he is or go to Texas to get a 6'9" kid who "can shoot." (I think there are kids in Indiana who can shoot a little, but maybe I'm biased) Or Arizona to get a last-minute signee because he's tall. And let's not accuse someone of bias when there is actually plenty of solid evidence that proves my point. Do you need me to list just the kids from Indiana that have gone to Michigan State, Ohio State, and Michigan in the last decade? Heck, we'd have won at least 2 more Big Ten titles with half of just THOSE kids. Let alone anyone else.

You just became my favorite poster on here.

[Josh 12,736]

Ah...I understand.  It's all about NBA-type players; not good college players.   We don't need kids like Jordan Hulls, Steve Alford, Michael Lewis, or AJ Guyton.  We need NBA prospects from big cities who are good with the ball in their hands and come to IU to showcase themselves.  That's what everybody wants to watch.  That's our DNA.  That's what we should be recruiting at Indiana, while teams like Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Purdue run roughshod over us with midwest kids.  Makes complete sense.  Understanding the game doesn't matter.   Knowing how to play both the "sport" and the "game" don't matter.   Being sound fundamentally don't matter.  Nor does being smart because turnovers and bad shots are "part of the game."   We need Russell Westbrook, who takes 43 shots to get 54 points in a game.  Making others around you better doesn't matter.  There's no good reason dozens of college coaches target kids from Indiana every year.     Bias?  You've got to be kidding me.  That's uninformed and ignorant.   Even if I were simply biased toward kids here, I'm also right.

 

The majority of NBA players?  I think that's a bit of a reach simply due to the mass population of big cities, but take a good hard look at the league, and let me know how many you see that ARE from the midwest and Indiana in particular.    NBA players per-capita?   I think this little map will show you everything you need to know.   http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/11/12/7202561/nba-birthplace-map-washington-dc-mississippi

 

So...let's cut out the myth that Indiana needs to recruit anywhere but right around here.  There is plenty of talent, including NBA talent, let alone high-level college talent right around here.  And let's never bring in another kid who doesn't understand where he is or go to Texas to get a 6'9" kid who "can shoot."   (I think there are kids in Indiana who can shoot a little, but maybe I'm biased)   Or Arizona to get a last-minute signee because he's tall.   And let's not accuse someone of bias when there is actually plenty of solid evidence that proves my point.   Do you need me to list just the kids from Indiana that have gone to Michigan State, Ohio State, and Michigan in the last decade?   Heck, we'd have won at least 2 more Big Ten titles with half of just THOSE kids.   Let alone anyone else.   

 

I never said I don't want these kids gocolts, read my posts again.  I just think it's foolish to restrict recruiting to one area.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Ah...I understand. It's all about NBA-type players; not good college players. We don't need kids like Jordan Hulls, Steve Alford, Michael Lewis, or AJ Guyton. We need NBA prospects from big cities who are good with the ball in their hands and come to IU to showcase themselves. That's what everybody wants to watch. That's our DNA. That's what we should be recruiting at Indiana, while teams like Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Purdue run roughshod over us with midwest kids. Makes complete sense. Understanding the game doesn't matter. Knowing how to play both the "sport" and the "game" don't matter. Being sound fundamentally don't matter. Nor does being smart because turnovers and bad shots are "part of the game." We need Russell Westbrook, who takes 43 shots to get 54 points in a game. Making others around you better doesn't matter. There's no good reason dozens of college coaches target kids from Indiana every year. Bias? You've got to be kidding me. That's uninformed and ignorant. Even if I were simply biased toward kids here, I'm also right.

The majority of NBA players? I think that's a bit of a reach simply due to the mass population of big cities, but take a good hard look at the league, and let me know how many you see that ARE from the midwest and Indiana in particular. NBA players per-capita? I think this little map will show you everything you need to know. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/11/12/7202561/nba-birthplace-map-washington-dc-mississippi

So...let's cut out the myth that Indiana needs to recruit anywhere but right around here. There is plenty of talent, including NBA talent, let alone high-level college talent right around here. And let's never bring in another kid who doesn't understand where he is or go to Texas to get a 6'9" kid who "can shoot." (I think there are kids in Indiana who can shoot a little, but maybe I'm biased) Or Arizona to get a last-minute signee because he's tall. And let's not accuse someone of bias when there is actually plenty of solid evidence that proves my point. Do you need me to list just the kids from Indiana that have gone to Michigan State, Ohio State, and Michigan in the last decade? Heck, we'd have won at least 2 more Big Ten titles with half of just THOSE kids. Let alone anyone else.

"So...let's cut out the myth that Indiana needs to recruit anywhere but right around here."

Look at the first map. There are greater concentrations of NBA caliber players outside of Indiana. Indiana does produce great, NBA caliber players, but we can't just rely on the state to produce enough D1 caliber players who also want to attend Indiana every year.

The highlighted statement is the opposite of what Indiana must do to succeed. We must develop recruiting ties to other areas of the country that produce similar talent, such as the East Coast. Indiana needs to improve its position with in-state kids, but it would be ignorant for Indiana to disregard the talent elsewhere.

What this map really tells me is that it is crucial that a program develop strong ties to a handful of areas around the country to consistently position themselves to succeed in recruiting.

We now have Chuck Martin doing work to further develop our East Coast relationships, so hopefully we hire a new assistant with strong Indiana roots to help at home. Ultimately, we just need to start winning and recruiting will become much easier.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

Aren't the best basketball players playing in the NBA?

Ok, if not, wouldn't the national championship teams be littered with mostly midwest kids? Wouldn't the All American teams be only midwest kids?

In fact, there is talent spread throughout the country. It's not always centered in the midwest. I'm not sure why people insist that it is.

They insist that college talent comes from the Midwest because.... It does. Here are the final four players hometowns....

[attachment=2088:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1430144334.507248.jpg]

[attachment=2089:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1430144344.591223.jpg]

Looks pretty Midwest to me.

[Josh 12,736]

They insist that college talent comes from the Midwest because.... It does. Here are the final four players hometowns....

ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1430144334.507248.jpg

ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1430144344.591223.jpg

Looks pretty Midwest to me.

 

Interesting, I hadn't seen that map before.  Looks like a lot of east coast kids for the best team too.  Do you have the maps from previous years?  Obviously this year was skewed by two midwest teams, an abberation.

 

I agree there's great talent in the midwest.  I disagree that we should only recruit the midwest.  As the map shows, there's talent outside the midwest too.  I don't understand why anybody would want to limit recruiting.

[pumpfake 3,966]

They insist that college talent comes from the Midwest because.... It does. Here are the final four players hometowns....

ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1430144334.507248.jpg

ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1430144344.591223.jpg

Looks pretty Midwest to me.

 

Interesting map.  Three things jump out: 1) MSU & UW kind of own their respective states, 2)  Three of the FF teams have poached Indiana, and 3) Kentucky doesn't produce squat.

[MikeRoberts 7,268]

It's not that we shouldn't recruit outside of the Midwest for me, but that we have to be really smart about it when we do. There is enough talent in the Midwest to build a championship caliber team year after year. If for some reason on a given year the region does not have many quality bigs for example, then yes, let's not shove a square peg into a round hole. When IU boards the private jet, it takes time, money and means we aren't here in our backyard. We Crean isn't in Indiana, it makes it easier for Matta, Izzo, Calipari etc to swoop in and build their final four rosters with our players

[Hovadipo 57,187]

Interesting, I hadn't seen that map before. Looks like a lot of east coast kids for the best team too. Do you have the maps from previous years? Obviously this year was skewed by two midwest teams, an abberation.

I agree there's great talent in the midwest. I disagree that we should only recruit the midwest. As the map shows, there's talent outside the midwest too. I don't understand why anybody would want to limit recruiting.

Skewed by 3***** midwest teams.

I, too, would like to see maps from previous years.

[Striper 192]

Skewed by 3***** midwest teams.

I, too, would like to see maps from previous years.

It would only be skewed if the midwest teams reached the Final Four by some sort of random sequence.  These teams played their way their and proved themselves to be the arguably the best four in the country, and got there with arguably the best players.  I would be interested to see previous year's as well, but given that Duke and UNC have long had an interest in products from Indiana (especially given the smaller population of the state comparatively) I would still think the midwest is generally over represented.

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

Indiana's all star roster for 2015 leaves alot to be desired.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

Interesting, I hadn't seen that map before. Looks like a lot of east coast kids for the best team too. Do you have the maps from previous years? Obviously this year was skewed by two midwest teams, an abberation.

I agree there's great talent in the midwest. I disagree that we should only recruit the midwest. As the map shows, there's talent outside the midwest too. I don't understand why anybody would want to limit recruiting.

Agree it's skewed, just answering your question on teams being dominated with Midwest kids.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

Ideally, I'd love to recruit the Midwest to produce our 4 year players.

I'd like to recruit nationally to bring in 1 player in each class that is your 1-2 year player and have them learn form the other Midwest kids.

I'm 100% biased, but growing up in Indiana and experiencing basketball there, there is just something about it.

For reference: I moved to Richmond, VA in Decemeber. Started playing pickup basketball at the gym in January and I'm now the "sharpshooter." I'm that guy you don't leave open because I'll hit the shot... In Indiana when I would play I was a decent shooter, here they consider me automatic lol.

"Where'd you learn to shoot like that?"

"Grew up in Indiana"

"Ahh shit, no wonder."

Nobody shoots it like Indiana players. It's scary how different the games are out here. People still view Indiana as the basketball state. At least these Virginians im playing with now do :)

[OliviaPope40 6,680]

Hate to be nit picky but Hanner again is from Colombia. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

 

 

I never said I don't want these kids gocolts, read my posts again.  I just think it's foolish to restrict recruiting to one area.

 

Why is it "foolish?"  Wisconsin and Michigan State do.   And all they do is win the Big Ten or go to final fours every year.  Tum Tum Nairn's from the Bahamas and some kid who never plays is from Wyoming.   Other than that?   All midwest kids at MSU.   For Wisconsin, Jordan Hill's from California.  He's the only kid on their roster not from the midwest.   Knight's first recruit not from the midwest was Joe Hillman, and he had a handful at best...I can't name very many.    He was pretty successful.   All that's changed is social media now allows us to know the kids from New York and Los Angeles.  It doesn't mean we "need" to recruit them; and we sure don't need to hire a coach because he has "east coast recruiting ties."  THAT was foolish in my opinion.   The talent around here is astounding..every season.   You can comment that you don't agree to limiting it, and that's reasonable.  That's a good debate.  But to call it "foolish" is not because there's plenty of evidence that refutes it.  

 

There is enough talent in Indiana alone, leave out the midwest, to build nationally competitive teams year in and year out.   I'm not telling you Indiana should never recruit outside the area; but I think it's really dumb to bring kids in here who have no idea where they are or haven't got a grasp on the tradition here.   Which is what both Johnson and Hoetzel said.  (Seriously....we needed to go to Calabasas, CA to find a Max Hoetzel?   I promise there were 20 seniors in Indiana last season who can do what he can do on a basketball floor; and probably 40 more in Illinois, Michigan, and Ohio)   Who wins a rivalry game with Purdue if one group completely gets the rivalry and one doesn't?   How does a program build if the players in it aren't completely bought in to where they are?    I think we know that answer.   Like I said, Indiana no longer has a national footprint, but it darned sure has one locally.   And there are a TON of very solid college players who come from schools < 200 miles from the Bloomington campus every single season.

[Old Friend 8,389]

 

 

Interesting, I hadn't seen that map before.  Looks like a lot of east coast kids for the best team too.  Do you have the maps from previous years?  Obviously this year was skewed by two midwest teams, an abberation.

 

I agree there's great talent in the midwest.  I disagree that we should only recruit the midwest.  As the map shows, there's talent outside the midwest too.  I don't understand why anybody would want to limit recruiting.

 

Aberration?  Heck...I'll leave out Kentucky....they're pretty midwest, but I'll not include them.   I wonder if you think you're using facts, or if you just hope nobody knows any better?  

 

2015 : Michigan State, Wisconsin

2014 :  Wisconsin

2013 : Wichita State, Louisville, Michigan

2012 : Kansas, Louisville, Ohio State

2011 : Butler

2010 : Butler, Michigan State, West Virginia

2009 : Michigan State

2008 : Kansas, Memphis

2007 : Ohio State

2005 : Illinois, Louisville, Michigan State

 

I just went back a decade.   Notice what the REAL aberration is?  2006, when there were no midwest teams.   

 

So out of 40 possible Final Four teams in those 10 years (leaving out 2006), HALF of them were from the midwest....and remember, I Ieft out Kentucky, which would add 4 more.  20 out of 40.   An aberration?  This year was "skewed?"   Hhmmm....no.

 

Edit :  Know how many teams from major east or west coast cities made final fours in the same period?  3.  UCLA twice and Villanova once.  Syracuse and UConn would give you 6 if you want to count them.   I'll take my 20.  You can have your 6....if you take both coasts and stretch it a little.

 

Wanna' go back a little farther, 2003 had Kansas and Marquette; 2002 had Indiana, Kansas, and Oklahoma (that's a stretch...I know).  2001, Michigan State.  2000, Michigan State and Wisconsin (skewed?).   1999, Ohio State and Michigan State.  No.  I don't see this season as an aberration, no matter how hard I look.  And....I see a ton of schools that consistently recruit Indiana and the midwest showing up on the sport's biggest stage.   So...I'll stick to my argument.  Indiana does not "need" to recruit kids from the east or west coast.

[Josh 12,736]

Kids from the midwest are great.  To limit recruiting is faulty.  The reason why is because of stereotypes.

 

To say that a kid from the midwest is more fundamentally sound is a stereotype.  To say that kid A from the midwest will be a better than kid B from elsewhere simply because he's from the midwest will get you into a lot of trouble.  Stereotypes get you into trouble.

 

For every Max Hoetzel you give me, I can give you a Victor Oladipo.  For every Jordan Hulls you give me, I can give you a Derrick Elston.  Judging a kid's ability based upon where he's from is faulty.

 

Your heels are planted firmly in your midwest dirt.  Mine are planted firmly in my sand.  This is going nowhere.  Have a great day.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

Kids from the midwest are great.  To limit recruiting is faulty.  The reason why is because of stereotypes.

 

To say that a kid from the midwest is more fundamentally sound is a stereotype.  To say that kid A from the midwest will be a better than kid B from elsewhere simply because he's from the midwest will get you into a lot of trouble.  Stereotypes get you into trouble.

 

For every Max Hoetzel you give me, I can give you a Victor Oladipo.  For every Jordan Hulls you give me, I can give you a Derrick Elston.  Judging a kid's ability based upon where he's from is faulty.

 

Your heels are planted firmly in your midwest dirt.  Mine are planted firmly in my sand.  This is going nowhere.  Have a great day.

 

??????

[Bobman1 2,909]

Kids from the midwest are great. To limit recruiting is faulty. The reason why is because of stereotypes.

To say that a kid from the midwest is more fundamentally sound is a stereotype. To say that kid A from the midwest will be a better than kid B from elsewhere simply because he's from the midwest will get you into a lot of trouble. Stereotypes get you into trouble.

For every Max Hoetzel you give me, I can give you a Victor Oladipo. For every Jordan Hulls you give me, I can give you a Derrick Elston. Judging a kid's ability based upon where he's from is faulty.

Your heels are planted firmly in your midwest dirt. Mine are planted firmly in my sand. This is going nowhere. Have a great day.

All anyone's saying is Crean needs and could do a better job recruiting in our backyard. Where the kids from Wisconsin and MSU are from. Those two teams beat us 3-3 this year with kids from our backyard. We could do the same thing and be a better team. Take 1 or 2 top recruits that'll stayd for 1-2 years and breed them in our system. The first step to good recruiting is a good team, and we may have that this year.