I want Tom Crean to stay

[redherring 42]

Indiana firing Tom Crean to hire a C list coach would be one of the most ridiculous moves ever. I mean, that would be a joke. If that happened, we would deserve every losing season. It's more than reasonable to dislike Crean or want a different coach, but it's plain as day that he's capable. Indiana ain't getting anyone better than Crean.

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

Crean did the Ian O'Conner show Sunday and was apparently on Mike & Mike this morning. Are these more signs Crean will be back for sure?

[djsalway 4,161]

Crean did the Ian O'Conner show Sunday and was apparently on Mike & Mike this morning. Are these more signs Crean will be back for sure?

 

Not necessarily. You have to fulfill your duties until the day you are terminated.

[SteelerHoosier 2,586]

Crean did the Ian O'Conner show Sunday and was apparently on Mike & Mike this morning. Are these more signs Crean will be back for sure?

Most likely

[KingPG21 6,584]

Indiana firing Tom Crean to hire a C list coach would be one of the most ridiculous moves ever. I mean, that would be a joke. If that happened, we would deserve every losing season. It's more than reasonable to dislike Crean or want a different coach, but it's plain as day that he's capable. Indiana ain't getting anyone better than Crean.

Capable of what? If it is what most of us want, another championship, then no, it isn't obvious he is capable

[redherring 42]

Capable of what? If it is what most of us want, another championship, then no, it isn't obvious he is capable

Feel free to disagree! I just thought we were contenders in 11-12 and 12-13. We were #1 for several weeks and had a #1 seed which indicates to me that this group is capable of doing it. Maybe just me, not sure of the general stance here.

My opinion is that Crean is capable of building a consistent winner. He's on the cusp, really. It's going to be close, really comes down to next season and the 2016 class. But all indications are we are positioned rather well for both.

Time will tell.

[JSHoosier 20,185]

Feel free to disagree! I just thought we were contenders in 11-12 and 12-13. We were #1 for several weeks and had a #1 seed which indicates to me that this group is capable of doing it. Maybe just me, not sure of the general stance here.

My opinion is that Crean is capable of building a consistent winner. He's on the cusp, really. It's going to be close, really comes down to next season and the 2016 class. But all indications are we are positioned rather well for both.

Time will tell.

What are you basing that opinion on? 2 years? Honest question. He hasn't won consistently in 16 years.

[redherring 42]

What are you basing that opinion on? 2 years? Honest question. He hasn't won consistently in 16 years.

Basing it what has occurred in his seven years here, his career prior to IU dating to 1990, combined with the resources he has available now that he's into his tenure, and I think Crean actually has a good chance of succeeding here. I do not think he will get to that point, however. Barring a title, I think he will be gone after next season. Then I hope Stevens is interested because if not, uh oh.

He won pretty consistently at Marquette. He didn't win championships consistently. Not many do.He has strong mentors. He's eccentric, sure, but aren't many great coaches that way?

I greatly enjoy the kind of kid he brings in, for the most part. It's made IU basketball seem like itself again in one way at least. He's made mistakes, and combined with some bad luck..he's pretty much in a win or bust situation now.

He's definitely a 21st century guy at a 20th century program. That's a problem.

[JSHoosier 20,185]

Basing it what has occurred in his seven years here, his career prior to IU dating to 1990, combined with the resources he has available now that he's into his tenure, and I think Crean actually has a good chance of succeeding here. I do not think he will get to that point, however. Barring a title, I think he will be gone after next season. Then I hope Stevens is interested because if not, uh oh.

He won pretty consistently at Marquette. He didn't win championships consistently. Not many do.He has strong mentors. He's eccentric, sure, but aren't many great coaches that way?

I greatly enjoy the kind of kid he brings in, for the most part. It's made IU basketball seem like itself again in one way at least. He's made mistakes, and combined with some bad luck..he's pretty much in a win or bust situation now.

He's definitely a 21st century guy at a 20th century program. That's a problem.

He spent the majority of his Marquette tenure wallowing in mediocrity.  He was a consistent also ran, that's about the only consistency he saw.  He didn't consistently compete for the conference, in fact he finished in the top 3 a total of 3 times in those 9 seasons; that's not good.  He had a so-so winning percentage of 66, that's not good.  After that one season that is a glaring outlier he never did better than tied for 4th in his conference and the best tourney appearance he had was a second round loss.  He actually followed that outlier year up by missing the tournament two years in a row.  He barely averaged 20 wins a year and that's not even the measure that it used to be, and he also averaged double digit losses a year.

 

He's not a great coach.  To look at his 16 year career as a head coach and call him 'great' would be an outrageous exaggeration, nothing about his career says 'great' it really doesn't even say 'good'.  Actually if a person takes the time to compare, his career actually says 'Mike Davis' more than anything.  Do I think he's as bad as Davis?  Not really, but their resumes are practically mirror images.

 

The bad thing is that if you go back and look Marquette fans had the same complaints about him when he left that we have of him now.  That tells me that he really hasn't improved as a coach.

 

This program offers everything a coach needs to succeed, it's not holding Tom Crean back.

[HoosierPT 121]

He spent the majority of his Marquette tenure wallowing in mediocrity. He was a consistent also ran, that's about the only consistency he saw. He didn't consistently compete for the conference, in fact he finished in the top 3 a total of 3 times in those 9 seasons; that's not good. He had a so-so winning percentage of 66, that's not good. After that one season that is a glaring outlier he never did better than tied for 4th in his conference and the best tourney appearance he had was a second round loss. He actually followed that outlier year up by missing the tournament two years in a row. He barely averaged 20 wins a year and that's not even the measure that it used to be, and he also averaged double digit losses a year.

He's not a great coach. To look at his 16 year career as a head coach and call him 'great' would be an outrageous exaggeration, nothing about his career says 'great' it really doesn't even say 'good'. Actually if a person takes the time to compare, his career actually says 'Mike Davis' more than anything. Do I think he's as bad as Davis? Not really, but their resumes are practically mirror images.

The bad thing is that if you go back and look Marquette fans had the same complaints about him when he left that we have of him now. That tells me that he really hasn't improved as a coach.

This program offers everything a coach needs to succeed, it's not holding Tom Crean back.

Are you the same guy who hated on Bill Lynch non-stop?

[Alford Bailey 12,375]

I'd have said that he reminds me of a modern day Lou Henson, who with the help of assistant Jimmy Collins, consistently recruited burger boys out of the Chicago public school system for the University of Illinois back in the 70's and 80's. He improved their fundamentals and made them physically bigger, but they constantly and consistently underachieved against superior coaching and more cerebral players. I'd have said this if it weren't such a slam against Lou Henson. 

Crean's teams do not attain any level of fundamental soundness, mental toughness or self discipline, no matter how long they stay at IU or are immersed in his "system". The faces change, (and change quite a bit), from year to year, but the results are pretty much the same. 

I think you are dead on with your Lou Do to CTC comparison. Just had a Doug Altenberger flashback.

[TrueHoosier62 1,593]

I think you are dead on with your Lou Do to CTC comparison. Just had a Doug Altenberger flashback.

I remember Doug Altenberger quite well. He was a nice, gritty guard, and I think he was from a high school called Peoria Richwoods.

 

[TheWatShot 13,968]

What would Tom Crean be doing these days if Dwayne Wade hadn't fallen into his lap? I've never seen someone get so much mileage out of one Final Four run when he's never even been to an Elite 8 outside of it. 

[ashmgee 193]

I agree, this has been a program that was a dump before Crean got here. His first season he won 6 games, and has only improved. He shouldn't be fired after one season not making the tournament. Look at John Beilein, they didn't make the NIT, should he be fired?

so how many times missing the tourney would sway your opinion?
Most programs that are going any where make it just about every year. Mish's coach can get a pass. He went to the final game, and this year he had some problems. Has been competitive as I recall until he was forced to play Walkons. Could argue he has been more successful than our gem.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

so how many times missing the tourney would sway your opinion?
Most programs that are going any where make it just about every year. Mish's coach can get a pass. He went to the final game, and this year he had some problems. Has been competitive as I recall until he was forced to play Walkons. Could argue he has been more successful than our gem.

I don't think there is any argument there. He's won the B1G a few times and has been to a title game.

[JSHoosier 20,185]

Are you the same guy who hated on Bill Lynch non-stop?

I don't remember every posting anything about Lynch on any board I've been a part of. Although I do think we're better off without him. Doug Mallory on the other hand...

Were you one if the fans that wanted to keep Davis because "he's a nice guy"?

[redherring 42]

He spent the majority of his Marquette tenure wallowing in mediocrity. He was a consistent also ran, that's about the only consistency he saw. He didn't consistently compete for the conference, in fact he finished in the top 3 a total of 3 times in those 9 seasons; that's not good. He had a so-so winning percentage of 66, that's not good. After that one season that is a glaring outlier he never did better than tied for 4th in his conference and the best tourney appearance he had was a second round loss. He actually followed that outlier year up by missing the tournament two years in a row. He barely averaged 20 wins a year and that's not even the measure that it used to be, and he also averaged double digit losses a year.

He's not a great coach. To look at his 16 year career as a head coach and call him 'great' would be an outrageous exaggeration, nothing about his career says 'great' it really doesn't even say 'good'. Actually if a person takes the time to compare, his career actually says 'Mike Davis' more than anything. Do I think he's as bad as Davis? Not really, but their resumes are practically mirror images.

The bad thing is that if you go back and look Marquette fans had the same complaints about him when he left that we have of him now. That tells me that he really hasn't improved as a coach.

This program offers everything a coach needs to succeed, it's not holding Tom Crean back.

Thanks for this response. Well put, if you are looking at it in a negative vain.

I don't see any reason to get hung up on results at Marquette. He's displayed nearly every ability necessary as head coach here.

Fan complaints aren't really relevant. It doesn't matter who the coach is, fans will complain about some things. Indiana takes it to a new level, and you will be psychoanalyzed through a TV screen as well. Coach may change, but all of us will still complain.

He isn't a great head coach because his results don't reflect that yet. He's 48; that's young for a coach. That's a coach coming into the peak of his career. That's a coach that's had a wealth of experiences. Do we really need to train someone on the job? Because we aren't getting an established coach anytime soon.

I don't know how anyone can follow this program, and listen to what Tom Izzo told the Indy media and still believe Crean has no chance here. He's got a better chance than just about anyone out there.

What I want is a coach that puts IU in position to win; he has unquestionably done that and will continue doing that. It needs to be every year, but you don't get that in 7 years ESPECIALLY considering what he had to work through in the early years. If people want to be hard asses and say that doesn't matter, fine. But this program is in great shape thanks to Crean. Yet we want to cut him down at the knees. Makes sense.

Crean can get us in position. Make fun of the results all you want, those will come. But All Americans keep walking through that door, NBA people keep walking through that door to watch this staff. Those are pretty strong indicators that maybe these guys know what they're doing. Stay the course is my belief.

I totally get wanting IU to be better, but we are really ready to throw this guy away for someone totally unproven? Seems fairly idiotic to me.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

Crean is a lame duck. As a coach you never wanting to be coaching to save your job. Even an elite 8 can't help him IMO, at least not at Indiana. If he's smart he takes the Alabama or ok state job. Learns how to make in game adjustments then gets one more shot at a big time program.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

Also, were there Mike Davis supporters who argued that he should be given one more year during his last 2 years. What were those arguments like? How do they feel now?

[JSHoosier 20,185]

Thanks for this response. Well put, if you are looking at it in a negative vain.

I don't see any reason to get hung up on results at Marquette. He's displayed nearly every ability necessary as head coach here.

Fan complaints aren't really relevant. It doesn't matter who the coach is, fans will complain about some things. Indiana takes it to a new level, and you will be psychoanalyzed through a TV screen as well. Coach may change, but all of us will still complain.

He isn't a great head coach because his results don't reflect that yet. He's 48; that's young for a coach. That's a coach coming into the peak of his career. That's a coach that's had a wealth of experiences. Do we really need to train someone on the job? Because we aren't getting an established coach anytime soon.

I don't know how anyone can follow this program, and listen to what Tom Izzo told the Indy media and still believe Crean has no chance here. He's got a better chance than just about anyone out there.

What I want is a coach that puts IU in position to win; he has unquestionably done that and will continue doing that. It needs to be every year, but you don't get that in 7 years ESPECIALLY considering what he had to work through in the early years. If people want to be hard asses and say that doesn't matter, fine. But this program is in great shape thanks to Crean. Yet we want to cut him down at the knees. Makes sense.

Crean can get us in position. Make fun of the results all you want, those will come. But All Americans keep walking through that door, NBA people keep walking through that door to watch this staff. Those are pretty strong indicators that maybe these guys know what they're doing. Stay the course is my belief.

I totally get wanting IU to be better, but we are really ready to throw this guy away for someone totally unproven? Seems fairly idiotic to me.

All I did was post his actual results at Marquette and say it's not good, and it's not that good.

 

He's displayed "nearly every ability necessary here"?  Huh?  Since when?  He hasn't shown much ability to make in game adjustments, and it's cost us several times.  He hasn't shown an ability to adapt his system to fit his personnel, well, period.  The team is usually playing it's worst going into March, a time when it needs to be playing it's best; actually we've only seen the team playing it's best going into March once, and teams wearing out down the stretch was one complaint Marquette fans had.

 

He's been a head coach 16 years, and he's been wildly mediocre.  Going into his peak?  At this point in their careers all the unarguably great coaches accomplished far more than Crean and it's not close, and one of them had to literally build the program from scratch.  People say Cal isn't a good coach, that he just rides his talent, and even he has been more successful than Crean at the same point in their careers.

 

Izzo said good things to the media; hold up, stop the presses.  His friend said good things about him to the media.  Wow, astonishing.  Oh wait, that's exactly what I would expect and how often do you hear of coaches speak badly about another coach?  Doesn't happen often.

 

Mike Davis got McDonald's All-Americans to walk through the door too, and he will never be confused for a good coach.  The name Indiana will recruit itself, at least to an extent.  Don't fool yourself, while even I'll call Crean a good (but not great) recruiter it's not all him, the brand is helping.