I want Tom Crean to stay

[8bucks 6,193]

What's your explanation for the end to the 2012-13 season? I'd love to hear.

I think Indiana fans in general are to be commended for having such high expectations. No one else looks at IU like that, though. Like no one.

I expect the coach at Indiana to have his teams playing basketball at near peak levels at the end of the year. Sure there will be some off years for this but in general I want to see a team improve such that our late season record reflects it.

We showed we could play with the best teams in the country early in that year but we played tired and uninspired down the stretch. The NCAA is a deal where in one night we can be eliminated I get that but we looked clueless against Syracuse. If you are going to lose go down playing a great game.

I am fine to say we lose one year in the sweet sixteen when we should have gone further but in four years since the rebuild we entered the tourney with a highly ranked team capable of winning it all once. Crean needs to have more capable teams annually.

[redherring 42]

I expect the coach at Indiana to have his teams playing basketball at near peak levels at the end of the year. Sure there will be some off years for this but in general I want to see a team improve such that our late season record reflects it.

We showed we could play with the best teams in the country early in that year but we played tired and uninspired down the stretch. The NCAA is a deal where in one night we can be eliminated I get that but we looked clueless against Syracuse. If you are going to lose go down playing a great game.

I am fine to say we lose one year in the sweet sixteen when we should have gone further but in four years since the rebuild we entered the tourney with a highly ranked team capable of winning it all once. Crean needs to have more capable teams annually.

Who are the coaches that have the magic touch in February and March? What is it about Tom Crean that leads you to believe he is the root of late season struggles? Serious questions.

Syracuse... I don't think that one is all on Crean. Poor recognition by a number of players, lottery players included, killed IU in that game. Not preparation lol.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Who are the coaches that have the magic touch in February and March? What is it about Tom Crean that leads you to believe he is the root of late season struggles? Serious questions.

Syracuse... I don't think that one is all on Crean. Poor recognition by a number of players, lottery players included, killed IU in that game. Not preparation lol.

The fact his teams always struggle/are fatigued down the stretch is a pretty decent indicator.

 

I'm not mad about losing to Syracuse that year... I'm mad that we lost 10/15 this year and always fade at the end of the year

[ThompsonHoosier 3,413]

Who are the coaches that have the magic touch in February and March? What is it about Tom Crean that leads you to believe he is the root of late season struggles? Serious questions.

Syracuse... I don't think that one is all on Crean. Poor recognition by a number of players, lottery players included, killed IU in that game. Not preparation lol.

In my opinion it's both, the players and the coaching staff. Coaching staff did not have them prepared for Syracuse...and we can all agree they haven't had them ready for any other team that plays good zone defense. You're right, it's not all on Crean that his teams struggle late in the season, but he bears some of the blame.

[redherring 42]

The fact his teams always struggle/are fatigued down the stretch is a pretty decent indicator.

I'm not mad about losing to Syracuse that year... I'm mad that we lost 10/15 this year and always fade at the end of the year

Well, when his practices are under an hour starting in the middle of January... I can't come up with a clear answer as to why that happens though I would disagree that it happens every year. We have like a 4 year sample size. That's not that much especially considering extenuating circumstances with this given job/situation.

I don't think I'm that far apart from where you guys are on things... I just can't jump to the conclusions that you can without having a working knowledge of the day to day.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Well, when his practices are under an hour starting in the middle of January... I can't come up with a clear answer as to why that happens though I would disagree that it happens every year. We have like a 4 year sample size. That's not that much especially considering extenuating circumstances with this given job/situation.

I don't think I'm that far apart from where you guys are on things... I just can't jump to the conclusions that you can without having a working knowledge of the day to day.

I'm talking about throughout his entire career.

 

Also, how do you know his practices are under an hour starting mid January, but claim to not know about the day to day? And why does he get your benefit of the doubt after back to back to back underperforming seasons

[mdn82 25,467]

Tom Crean brought the following players to IU: Jordan Hulls, Christian Watford, Victor Oladipo, Will Sheehey, Cody Zeller, Yogi Ferrell, Noah Vonleh, Troy Williams, Collin Hartman, Devin Davis, James Blackmon, Robert Johnson, etc... To me that blows either of the prior coaches out of the water. Those are Indiana basketball guys. I don't fault anyone for disagreeing if you prefer Bracey Wright and co.

Indiana high school guys, and guys who have entrenched themselves as Hoosiers. Isn't that what everyone always complains about? Having that kind of person.

Its not that I prefer, it's recruiting top players. Davis was easily on par with Crean if you look at it subjectively. Plus very few of the players you have mentioned have entrenched themselves in anything. A couple players you mentioned had no idea of our history before coming.

[Dalton26 16,891]

I'm talking about throughout his entire career.

Also, how do you know his practices are under an hour starting mid January, but claim to not know about the day to day? And why does he get your benefit of the doubt after back to back to back underperforming seasons

Didn't our resident insider also say something different about the practices?

[mdn82 25,467]

Calm down SSQ

[8bucks 6,193]

Well, when his practices are under an hour starting in the middle of January... I can't come up with a clear answer as to why that happens though I would disagree that it happens every year. We have like a 4 year sample size. That's not that much especially considering extenuating circumstances with this given job/situation.

I don't think I'm that far apart from where you guys are on things... I just can't jump to the conclusions that you can without having a working knowledge of the day to day.

Go look back at his Marquette days the results are the same. The DWade year was the exception. Otherwise his teams performed poorly down the stretch.

[KingPG21 6,549]

No. I don't believe there is a coach that would "outwork" Crean. Dude is relentless.
 
Marshall and Miller would NOT get a visit from Bryant or Maker. They are Crean's recruits through and through. I'm not saying those guys couldn't learn on the job and develop those connections or hire an assistant to help, but is that what you wanted? A HC to learn on the job??
 
How many of the undecided McDonald's All Americans are considering Wichita State or Dayton??

You guys keep talking about bringing in a coach who would be learning on the job. This doesn't make any sense. Marshall has been coaching for quite some time, Miller has been coaching, they won't be starting from scratch. The learning on the job argument is just more pro-Crean dribble that has such a weak basis.

Your last point isn't fair at all to either Miller or Marshall. Saying they aren't getting All Americans at Wichita State or Dayton, so they wouldn't get them here is wrong on so many different levels. They don't have the recruiting budget, resources, etc. that Indiana has. They also don't have anywhere near the selling point of IU. And saying they couldn't out work Crean in recruiting once again isn't fair to either one. There is no way to say this, so many of your arguments participate in so much hyperbole just to boost Crean onto some pedestal he hasn't earned

[BGleas 7,880]

Just to add to your last paragraph, Tom Crean never landed a McDonald's All-American while at Marquette.

You guys keep talking about bringing in a coach who would be learning on the job. This doesn't make any sense. Marshall has been coaching for quite some time, Miller has been coaching, they won't be starting from scratch. The learning on the job argument is just more pro-Crean dribble that has such a weak basis.

Your last point isn't fair at all to either Miller or Marshall. Saying they aren't getting All Americans at Wichita State or Dayton, so they wouldn't get them here is wrong on so many different levels. They don't have the recruiting budget, resources, etc. that Indiana has. They also don't have anywhere near the selling point of IU. And saying they couldn't out work Crean in recruiting once again isn't fair to either one. There is no way to say this, so many of your arguments participate in so much hyperbole just to boost Crean onto some pedestal he hasn't earned

[JSHoosier 19,645]

You guys keep talking about bringing in a coach who would be learning on the job. This doesn't make any sense. Marshall has been coaching for quite some time, Miller has been coaching, they won't be starting from scratch. The learning on the job argument is just more pro-Crean dribble that has such a weak basis.

Your last point isn't fair at all to either Miller or Marshall. Saying they aren't getting All Americans at Wichita State or Dayton, so they wouldn't get them here is wrong on so many different levels. They don't have the recruiting budget, resources, etc. that Indiana has. They also don't have anywhere near the selling point of IU. And saying they couldn't out work Crean in recruiting once again isn't fair to either one. There is no way to say this, so many of your arguments participate in so much hyperbole just to boost Crean onto some pedestal he hasn't earned

Plus if Marshall would be learning on the job, then wouldn't the same have applied to Crean?

[Old Friend 8,389]

Tom Crean brought the following players to IU: Jordan Hulls, Christian Watford, Victor Oladipo, Will Sheehey, Cody Zeller, Yogi Ferrell, Noah Vonleh, Troy Williams, Collin Hartman, Devin Davis, James Blackmon, Robert Johnson, etc... To me that blows either of the prior coaches out of the water. Those are Indiana basketball guys. I don't fault anyone for disagreeing if you prefer Bracey Wright and co.

Indiana high school guys, and guys who have entrenched themselves as Hoosiers. Isn't that what everyone always complains about? Having that kind of person.

You can find Will Sheehey in any corner of Indiana.   There's a kid playing at Fishers who's just like him; for example.   He was terrific as a role player with the others he was with, but on his own, he wasn't special and I would have preferred getting that kind of player from one of the 4-5 states around here.

 

Johnson was one of the kids who said he had no idea of the traditions at Indiana before he got here.   You can find a player like him by recruiting locally.  I like him..don't get me wrong, but we didn't need him in particular.

 

Williams is and was very raw and still needs some polish.   I wouldn't classify him as a "Hoosier" from the standpoint of how basketball was drilled into our heads around here.  He doesn't shoot well and led the team in turnovers.  He's a sloppy player sometimes, even if he's a freak athlete and fun to watch.    

 

Vonleh was not a Hoosier.  Never interested in anything but the NBA.  He was the antithesis of the kind of player we need.  Left before he was truly ready, and just used Indiana as HIS one and done stop.   Don't agree that he's the kind of kid we need....and he sure didn't help us win.  He was worse than Bracey Wright in my opinion, and I would love to know why you chose Vonleh as an example to make your point....just for the sake of a conversation.

 

And look at the players he's lost to out of state schools : Gary Harris, Zac Irvin, Mitch McGary, Branden Dawson, Zach Novak, Stuart Douglass (a GREAT shooter), Bryant McIntosh, Trevon Blueitt, Dee Davis, Trey Lyles, etc, etc,.   In favor of guys like Priller, April, Robinson, Hoetzel, etc.   I know you have hits and misses, but Crean's really - in my mind - not done a very good job securing the local kids and kids who DO understand why it's important to beat Purdue and why going1-8 vs Northwestern without Cody Zeller is embarrassing.   To the detriment of the program, in my opinion.    We just lost 2 kids from elsewhere...who clearly didn't embrace the culture or really understand where they were...Hoetzel said he didn't, and why do we need a player like him from Calabasas, CA?  There are Max Hoetzel's in almost every conference in Indiana.   Just makes no sense to me.   Neither does hiring an assistant coach because he has strong east coast recruiting ties.  Why not hire the guy who can help you secure your home state??    Dane Fife?  Michael Lewis?

[HoosierTrav 7,619]

I think anyone with even a modicum of basic business skills would question the return on investment, the annual turnover, the cost for doing business, and of course, the product being peddled. If this were a business, Crean would have been fired four years ago, along with half the employees.

. This is exactly how I view this entire situation. Let's call a spade a spade. This is big business. Crean is managing a Fortune 500 company when he's actually only capable/qualified to run a mom and pop shop.

[HoosierPT 121]

Plus if Marshall would be learning on the job, then wouldn't the same have applied to Crean?

Seroiusly?

Anyway, Miller Marshall and Stevens are publicly out or have been extended. Who is your guy now? Anyone but Crean right?

[HoosierPT 121]

. This is exactly how I view this entire situation. Let's call a spade a spade. This is big business. Crean is managing a Fortune 500 company when he's actually only capable/qualified to run a mom and pop shop.

What makes you qualified to be the judge of who is capable? Not you personally, but I keep getting told I don't have good enough reasons to keep Crean. What makes other fans qualified to say he is not qualified but a guy who had success in the MVC is?

[8bucks 6,193]

What makes you qualified to be the judge of who is capable? Not you personally, but I keep getting told I don't have good enough reasons to keep Crean. What makes other fans qualified to say he is not qualified but a guy who had success in the MVC is?

Your qualifications listed above about contending for a BT championship regularly yet since the rebuild he has done this once in four years.

Then you look at his broader experience over his career and notice that Marshal, for example, has been far more successful competing for championships in his conference.

[HoosierPT 121]

Which teams win their conference championship more than 25% of the time?

I fear that most self-professed "Crean haters" have an unattainable threshold for success.

[Old Friend 8,389]

What makes you qualified to be the judge of who is capable? Not you personally, but I keep getting told I don't have good enough reasons to keep Crean. What makes other fans qualified to say he is not qualified but a guy who had success in the MVC is?

What reasons have you given?    You know, and we all know what the expectations are at Indiana.    What has he done to earn the right to stay as long as he wants?   When will he have proven to you that he's not the right guy?   What does his resume have to say?  In years 6 and 7, he finished 8th and 7th in the Big Ten.  Without Cody Zeller (that flash in the pan he's frequently criticized for) Tom Crean's teams are 1-8 vs. Northwestern and have never won in Evanston.    Is that okay at Indiana?    Your questions are asking - basically - for tangible reasons if not guarantees, and those don't exist.  But you have to apply some logic, reason, and the eyeball test, don't you?   Very few highly successful coaches move from "high D1 to high D1."  

 

At some point, you have to look at how teams play; how they do against teams from better leagues; how a guy leads, how he is received on the recruiting trail, what kind of staff he can build and bring, and yeah....his track record, no matter what conference he's from.   People are very qualified to have opinions on those things because people around here understand the game and the business.    You don't have to be a college AD or an experienced college head coach to have a very educated and valid opinion on what might or might not make a coach successful, or what criteria would give you an educated reason to believe one way or the other.