I want Tom Crean to stay

[Dalton26 16,892]

so u stated he wasn't trained what do u expect from someone with no training ( sarcasm) Seems to me he is on par with the coaches that have coached the last 20 years. Choking down the stretch, failing to make nit and losing in early rounds of ncaa tournament. I'm not saying I want him as coach but some people need to wake up and acknowledge we have a program problem not just a coaching problem

You're literally just talking in circles now. I've said all I can say.

[JSHoosier 20,217]

so u stated he wasn't trained what do u expect from someone with no training ( sarcasm) Seems to me he is on par with the coaches that have coached the last 20 years. Choking down the stretch, failing to make nit and losing in early rounds of ncaa tournament. I'm not saying I want him as coach but some people need to wake up and acknowledge we have a program problem not just a coaching problem

I think this program has everything a coach needs to succeed at a high level.  Bad coaching hires explains it pretty easily.

 

Davis will never be confused for a good coach, Sampson was a known cheater, and Crean is mediocre at best.  RMK didn't win at the level we'd come to expect, but in the mid 90s he left recruiting to his assistants so he could fish and when he started taking a bigger role he landed the 2002 team.  

 

Doesn't really sound like a program problem to me.

[KingPG21 6,584]

I'm still kind of blown away that some fans entire arguments for why Crean is good enough is the last 20 years he has been on par with our other coaches. I'm 22, so it really isn't an age thing for me. We have the resources to achieve a lot more, too bad the guy using the resources isn't good enough to use the resources consistently, at least he hasn't shown the ability to

[Uspshoosier 45,682]

I think this program has everything a coach needs to succeed at a high level. Bad coaching hires explains it pretty easily.

Davis will never be confused for a good coach, Sampson was a known cheater, and Crean is mediocre at best. RMK didn't win at the level we'd come to expect, but in the mid 90s he left recruiting to his assistants so he could fish and when he started taking a bigger role he landed the 2002 team.

Doesn't really sound like a program problem to me.

for a fan base that expects final fours and making deep runs in the tournament and in the last 20 some years we have had one Cinderella run in 2002 and after that our best result was 2 sweet 16 appearances back to back with a mediocre coach I would say that is exactly a program problem. Bad coaching hires are part of the overall program. Imo until the administration decides it wants to be a blue blood program again it dosent matter who is coaching

[Uspshoosier 45,682]

I'm still kind of blown away that some fans entire arguments for why Crean is good enough is the last 20 years he has been on par with our other coaches. I'm 22, so it really isn't an age thing for me. We have the resources to achieve a lot more, too bad the guy using the resources isn't good enough to use the resources consistently, at least he hasn't shown the ability to

im not saying he is good enough just pointing out Iu has bigger problems then replacing the coach

[Feathery 4,005]

And we then miss out on 2 really good years where we achieved more than we have in the 20 before it if you fire Crean 4 years ago before 2011-13 seasons.

No we grab Stevens before Boston would have called. Zeller is still a Hoosier and we likely go further than the Sweet 16.

[TheStillman 991]

No we grab Stevens before Boston would have called. Zeller is still a Hoosier and we likely go further than the Sweet 16.

If you want to talk in five levels of hypothetical sure we would've been great. The thing is what you stated here is more fan fiction than anything close to reality.

Honestly we should've fired Knight in 1988 hired coach K and been dominant for the past 30 years. Why didn't we do this ugh!!!!!!

[KingPG21 6,584]

im not saying he is good enough just pointing out Iu has bigger problems then replacing the coach

Upgrading the coach is going to change a lot. I agree there are other issue...... but just sticking with the same mediocrity doesn't really make sense

[TheStillman 991]

I'm still kind of blown away that some fans entire arguments for why Crean is good enough is the last 20 years he has been on par with our other coaches. I'm 22, so it really isn't an age thing for me. We have the resources to achieve a lot more, too bad the guy using the resources isn't good enough to use the resources consistently, at least he hasn't shown the ability to

What you say about consistency is the key and a major reason why some still support him for next year. He has shown the ability to use the resources in how he built the teams in 2011-13. Whether he can do it consistently is the issue but those who support will say that if you fire now you lose the best year of this group of players. Why not see what this core can achieve if they all stay?

Can he maintain after I am not sure but I don't think much harm is done to give him another year if he keeps this core and gets Bryant or Maker.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,744]

What you say about consistency is the key and a major reason why some still support him for next year. He has shown the ability to use the resources in how he built the teams in 2011-13. Whether he can do it consistently is the issue but those who support will say that if you fire now you lose the best year of this group of players. Why not see what this core can achieve if they all stay?

Can he maintain after I am not sure but I don't think much harm is done to give him another year if he keeps this core and gets Bryant or Maker.

And if any 1 of the 3 - Yogi, Troy or JBJ leave and he doesn't get Bryant or Maker do you still want another year?

[HoosierPT 121]

He has made 2 sweet sixteen here, why would we be talking about his one sweet sixteen at Marquette. Marshall has made just as many in the same amount of time, while going further, with worse resources. Oh and his teams are always in contention for the conference championship. Something we can barely ever say about Crean

 

Crean has our only Big Ten title in 20 years and a team returning that even his detractors say should contend next season.  Let's hire a mid major coach with less success nationally and assume that is going to improve.

[TheStillman 991]

The problem with a lot of the Crean supporters is they keep using the B1G Championship season with Cody and Vic as a selling point. Yes, we won the B1G (barely tho. We almost choked it away by not beating OSU on our home floor on senior night). Other than that, the season, at least in my eyes, was a massive disappointment. The #1 seed was cool and all but we clearly were not worthy of it. We barely squeaked by Temple only to get washed by Syracuse in the S16. Underachieving, mediocre basketball with Crean not knowing how to utilize our 5-star big man Cody Zeller.

What makes you Crean supports think it will be different if we get a big for next year? What has Crean shown you?

You're misconstruing that year. We lost to OSU but then went into Ann Arbor to beat a national runner up Michigan team with the league title on the line. Also won at Michigan State and Ohio State. It sucked to lose to Cuse but it was a great year. The best we've had in 2 decades.

[Uspshoosier 45,682]

Upgrading the coach is going to change a lot. I agree there are other issue...... but just sticking with the same mediocrity doesn't really make sense

if the end result ends in Stevens coaching in Bloomington in a couple years instead of making a change now for a different coach then yes I will stick out a couple more years (20 and counting) of the current product for 20 plus years of Stevens. A gamble I'm willing to take but lucky for you it's not my call

[TheStillman 991]

And if any 1 of the 3 - Yogi, Troy or JBJ leave and he doesn't get Bryant or Maker do you still want another year?

Read my posts throughout this thread. No I don't think so but this was exactly what Glass was implying in his statement. Keep the core, get Bryant and we have a title co tender next year.

Crean's status depends on how those chips fall.

[JSHoosier 20,217]

for a fan base that expects final fours and making deep runs in the tournament and in the last 20 some years we have had one Cinderella run in 2002 and after that our best result was 2 sweet 16 appearances back to back with a mediocre coach I would say that is exactly a program problem. Bad coaching hires are part of the overall program. Imo until the administration decides it wants to be a blue blood program again it dosent matter who is coaching

A bad coach being bad, a known cheater cheating and leaving a dumpster fire, and a mediocre coach that had never shown an ability to sustain success being mediocre and not sustaining success doesn't sound like a program problem to me.  Sounds like bad coaching hires limiting a program with every resource needed.

 

Now the administration may be a valid point, and has me worried, but it won't make me say Crean needs to stay.

[Feathery 4,005]

If you want to talk in five levels of hypothetical sure we would've been great. The thing is what you stated here is more fan fiction than anything close to reality.

It's just as hypothetical as your excuse of we miss out on 2 great years. You can't just say if Crean is gone we suck. It doesn't work that way. If Crean is gone another coach is hired and that coach would have had a quality roster minus a center to win with. I believe that we would have landed Brad Stevens and in turn we still land Zeller. His family are IU fans and all 3 would have been Hoosiers if circumstances were different. You can disagree with me on that point but I'd put it at a 90% likelihood Stevens would have taken the job.

As for your list earlier about ok with Crean being back bc we have a final four team, I agree to an extent. Talent wise we have enough to win the Big and make the Final Four. If we don't its bc of coaching. Creans style doesn't translatebto big March success. Teams must play quality defense and operate efficiently in a half court offensive game. Coaches have to make adjustments or get beat. Those are 3 of Creans biggest weaknesses.

But let's say Crean makes a final four, we lose 5/6 players (Yogi, Troy, JBJR, NZ, Perea, maybe Bryant), are you willing to give him 2 more years to rebuild like we just went through? I'm not. Even with a final four, he needs to land a quality recruiting class to show we have the talent to contend in conference the next season. I want sustained success at being towards the top of the conference, with big years mixed in.

[JSHoosier 20,217]

Crean has our only Big Ten title in 20 years and a team returning that even his detractors say should contend next season.  Let's hire a mid major coach with less success nationally and assume that is going to improve.

That was not our only B1G title in 20 years, Mike Davis has a B1G title to his name.  I know you meant outright, but shared and outright count exactly the same at the end of the day.

[TheStillman 991]

It's just as hypothetical as your excuse of we miss out on 2 great years. You can't just say if Crean is gone we suck. It doesn't work that way. If Crean is gone another coach is hired and that coach would have had a quality roster minus a center to win with. I believe 100% that we would have landed Brad Stevens and in turn we still land Zeller. His family are IU fans and all 3 would have been Hoosiers if circumstances were different. You can disagree with me on that point but I'd put it at a 90% likelihood Stevens would have taken the job.

As for your list earlier about ok with Crean being back bc we have a final four team, I agree to an extent. Talent wise we have enough to win the Big and make the Final Four. If we don't its bc of coaching. Creans style doesn't translatebto big March success. Teams must play quality defense and operate efficiently in a half court offensive game. Coaches have to make adjustments or get beat. Those are 3 of Creans biggest weaknesses.

But let's say Crean makes a final four, we lose 5/6 players (Yogi, Troy, JBJR, NZ, Perea, maybe Bryant), are you willing to give him 2 more years to rebuild like we just went through? I'm not. Even with a final four, he needs to land a quality recruiting class to show we have the talent to contend in conference the next season. I want sustained success at being towards the top of the conference, with big years mixed in.

I just think in this discussion saying that we get Stevens in 2011 is unfair because we have no idea and ta the past.

As far as your second question yes if Crean can put next years team in the final four he deserves 2 more years. It may pain some of you but at that point he'd have been in your tourney 5 of past 6 years with 2 sweet sixteens and a final four. Then he may be bringing in Alkins and some more recruits. So yes with a final 4 next year I still think he can build quality teams here

[Tom White 1,435]

And their junk zone. I hear Boheim is available in 3 years.

Sorry I got Crean's multiple sweet sixteen appearances mixed up. What business does a bad coach have with multiple sweet 16s anyway? That's also 1 more than Gregg Marshall has total in his 17 years...

Their "junk" zone worked darned well vs. IU.

Cream has only had two sweet sixteen appearances at IU, and you got them mixed up? Think of how confusing it would be if he were actually meeting expectations.

[KingPG21 6,584]

Crean has our only Big Ten title in 20 years and a team returning that even his detractors say should contend next season.  Let's hire a mid major coach with less success nationally and assume that is going to improve.

So in 8 years he would have 2 teams that were good enough to contend for the Big Ten. I'll throw out the first two years and let's say 6 years only 2 contenders for the B1G. Again Marshall has had just as much national success, actually more recently than Crean. Difference is Crean needs exceptional talent to be good, Marshall not really