I want Tom Crean to stay

[Lt. John McClaine 541]

This just isn't true. Their forum includes a lot of discourse that is anti-Crean. Yes Bozich needs to worry about keeping his press credentials so he has to toe that line. It's the dudes livelihood and you have to respect what he has built at ITH.

That is true, but one thing that annoys me about the Crean naysayers is the fact that they never seem to hold players accountable.  My memory is good enough to remember what players had good games and what players played lousy.  And Jordan Hulls, i'm sorry, played lousy that entire tournament run and Big Ten Tournament.  I know some will say that he hurt his shoulder that Temple game and that's why he had 0 points against Syracuse, but he had not been good the last couple of games. Not trying to defend Crean as much as it seems, but I am also not going to put all of the blame on him when the players decide the game.  

[Alford Bailey 12,375]

The other regular season (2011-12) included wins over 3 top 5 teams and a team right behind the B1G pack. A very successful season that included a lot of achievements by players that are revered by many IU fans. The constant dismissal of the teams in 2011-12 and 2012-13 as totally average is frustrating because the players of that era deserve better than to have their achievements be discounted just because the season fell short at end.

The 20 years argument includes the current coach of course. I guess we should say 22 years at this point if we're looking at everything past 92-93 season and yes Crean was around for 7 of those. Just so happens those 7 years included the best 2 year run and only outright B1G title during that time period. 2 years that included some great wins (regular season, yes, but great wins regardless).

I get that many are frustrated and if we went with a different coach I'm fine with it as the results haven't met expectations the past 2 years. What I hate is the dismissal of the Crean teams from 2011-13 and the idea that next years team has no chance of being special. If the core comes back and we add Bryant we will contend for the B1G!

2011-2013 success= Cody Zeller. You think Bryant will have Cody Zeller impact? Not so fast my friend.

[TheStillman 991]

2011-2013 success= Cody Zeller. You think Bryant will have Cody Zeller impact? Not so fast my friend.

Zeller was a big part but was also the collective team. Hulls, Watford, Sheehey, Oladipo. All 4 of them developed by Crean

[Dalton26 16,892]

That is true, but one thing that annoys me about the Crean naysayers is the fact that they never seem to hold players accountable.

You couldn't be any further from the truth.

[AZ Hoosier 7,101]

Zeller was a big part but was also the collective team. Hulls, Watford, Sheehey, Oladipo. All 4 of them developed by Crean

 

Cough. Cough. Whatever.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Cough. Cough. Whatever.

I don't get why this is a point that you just brush off? If you want to discredit Crean for his deficiencies, you have to credit him for what he has done well.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,317]

@dandakich: Couldn't do it..shouldn't be necessary at IU.. "@KristinMiller: @dandakich thoughts on creaning?”

[AZ Hoosier 7,101]

I don't get why this is a point that you just brush off? If you want to discredit Crean for his deficiencies, you have to credit him for what he has done well.

 

Not sure how much of these guys development is on Crean. I guess that's my point. Crean deserves what ever credit for what he did, but again, with Hulls being a coach's son/grandson and a gym rat, and Vic having the work ethic that he did, most of their development is on the players themselves and Je'Ney Jackson (the strength coach). Don't know about Sheehey and CWat - but I suspect that their effort was critical to their development - hours in the gym.

 

I just don't see giving Crean credit for these guys busting their humps in the gym to develop their game.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Not sure how much of these guys development is on Crean. I guess that's my point. Crean deserves what ever credit for what he did, but again, with Hulls being a coach's son/grandson and a gym rat, and Vic having the work ethic that he did, most of their development is on the players themselves and Je'Ney Jackson (the strength coach). Don't know about Sheehey and CWat - but I suspect that their effort was critical to their development - hours in the gym.

I just don't see giving Crean credit for these guys busting their humps in the gym to develop their game.

Of course these guys get credit for their own development, but so does Crean.

[TrueHoosier62 1,593]

Not sure how much of these guys development is on Crean. I guess that's my point. Crean deserves what ever credit for what he did, but again, with Hulls being a coach's son/grandson and a gym rat, and Vic having the work ethic that he did, most of their development is on the players themselves and Je'Ney Jackson (the strength coach). Don't know about Sheehey and CWat - but I suspect that their effort was critical to their development - hours in the gym.

 

I just don't see giving Crean credit for these guys busting their humps in the gym to develop their game.

^This^ x 1,000. 

[TheStillman 991]

Not sure how much of these guys development is on Crean. I guess that's my point. Crean deserves what ever credit for what he did, but again, with Hulls being a coach's son/grandson and a gym rat, and Vic having the work ethic that he did, most of their development is on the players themselves and Je'Ney Jackson (the strength coach). Don't know about Sheehey and CWat - but I suspect that their effort was critical to their development - hours in the gym.

I just don't see giving Crean credit for these guys busting their humps in the gym to develop their game.

So your general thesis is that anything good over the past 7 years had nothing to do with Crean and anything bad was all due to Crean. Seems logical!!

[Stuhoo 80,659]

CTC's greatest attribute is his work ethic and passion for the game. When players develop at IU, that is evidence of this coaching staff's influence on players with the proper mindset.

[BGleas 7,903]

A player's development takes a strong work ethic from the player, no doubt there. There's a reason Vic developed the way he did and guys like Hanner or Hollowell didn't. So, I agree with you there.

Where I'll disagree is not giving Crean much credit. Yes, VO, Hulls, Watford, etc. were all hard workers and put the time in the gym. No doubt there. But, they weren't just going into the gym and making up their own drills. They weren't watching film and figuring out what they had to improve and work on and how to do it, on their own. The staffs role is to layout the plan for a players development. Put the drills and protocols in place for the player to follow while they're in the gym. I've seen tons of guys go into the gym, trying to work hard, but wasting their time because they're not doing the right drills or they're doing them incorrectly. The coach gets that part of the credit IMO.

Not sure how much of these guys development is on Crean. I guess that's my point. Crean deserves what ever credit for what he did, but again, with Hulls being a coach's son/grandson and a gym rat, and Vic having the work ethic that he did, most of their development is on the players themselves and Je'Ney Jackson (the strength coach). Don't know about Sheehey and CWat - but I suspect that their effort was critical to their development - hours in the gym.
 
I just don't see giving Crean credit for these guys busting their humps in the gym to develop their game.

[AZ Hoosier 7,101]

So your general thesis is that anything good over the past 7 years had nothing to do with Crean and anything bad was all due to Crean. Seems logical!!

 

I never said that - or anything close to that. Crean did work to resurrect the program from the abyss that Sampson left. He did recruit Cody, Vic, Vonleh, Yogi, and others. He does get credit for that.

 

He's a horrible game coach - can't make an adjustment to save his life.

 

What did he do to develop any of these guys? He gets some credit for recruiting the kind of kid who has a work ethic and wants to get better so badly that they spend every waking moment in the gym working on their game. But to say that he made Vic is laughable. His offensive scheme is, well, offensive and lacking any kind of consistency. His pressers are likewise pathetic. He doesn't own any of the problems - it's all someone else's fault. He spends games pacing the sidelines, clapping and drinking Diet Coke. He has no clue about working the refs within the game to try to steal a call.

 

He consistently underachieves - and has done so for all of his career. One FF appearance with D Wade at Marquette. Two Sweet16 appearances at IU with Cody, Vic, Jordy, CWat, et al.

 

I am just so ready for IU to make him a former coach here. Time for Tommy to go.

[TrueHoosier62 1,593]

He's a horrible game coach - can't make an adjustment to save his life.

He consistently underachieves - and has done so for all of his career. 

I'd have said that he reminds me of a modern day Lou Henson, who with the help of assistant Jimmy Collins, consistently recruited burger boys out of the Chicago public school system for the University of Illinois back in the 70's and 80's. He improved their fundamentals and made them physically bigger, but they constantly and consistently underachieved against superior coaching and more cerebral players. I'd have said this if it weren't such a slam against Lou Henson. 

Crean's teams do not attain any level of fundamental soundness, mental toughness or self discipline, no matter how long they stay at IU or are immersed in his "system". The faces change, (and change quite a bit), from year to year, but the results are pretty much the same. 

[Bruce038 21]

You should buy a membership to Inside The Hall. Bozich has everyone over there in Crean's camp. It is truly pathetic. They love mediocrity.

Do you realize that Wisconsin spends as much on recruiting in a year as Crean does during two weeks in July? We could not beat Wisconsin if we played them 500 times. Wisconsin could beat us with their managers.

Absolutely spot on. Crean did not build on his success after Vic and Cody. He will never get us above mediocrity.

[TheStillman 991]

I never said that - or anything close to that. Crean did work to resurrect the program from the abyss that Sampson left. He did recruit Cody, Vic, Vonleh, Yogi, and others. He does get credit for that.

He's a horrible game coach - can't make an adjustment to save his life.

What did he do to develop any of these guys? He gets some credit for recruiting the kind of kid who has a work ethic and wants to get better so badly that they spend every waking moment in the gym working on their game. But to say that he made Vic is laughable. His offensive scheme is, well, offensive and lacking any kind of consistency. His pressers are likewise pathetic. He doesn't own any of the problems - it's all someone else's fault. He spends games pacing the sidelines, clapping and drinking Diet Coke. He has no clue about working the refs within the game to try to steal a call.

He consistently underachieves - and has done so for all of his career. One FF appearance with D Wade at Marquette. Two Sweet16 appearances at IU with Cody, Vic, Jordy, CWat, et al.

I am just so ready for IU to make him a former coach here. Time for Tommy to go.

You simply scoffed at my post suggesting that Crean developed the guys on the team from 2011-13 which he did. It's not like when Vic went to the gym Crean just rolled out the basketballs and said have at it. He gave Vic the tools and guidance to be where he is today. A players work ethic is a big part but the coach also has a major impact too.

A lot of what you state here is your opinion but just because you think and state that "Crean's offense is offensive" doesn't make it true. The stats on this show otherwise.

I agree with you that he has underachieved and wins and losses are ultimately what matter. I think if he keeps this core together he deserves another year for reasons I've stated throughout this thread.

Disagree with me but please stop with the attacks on me and don't ever quote my posts with a cough cough whatever again. Respect my opinion because it is based on how I view what has happened in the program over the past 7 years.

[AZ Hoosier 7,101]

Disagree with me but please stop with the attacks on me and don't ever quote my posts with a cough cough whatever again. Respect my opinion because it is based on how I view what has happened in the program over the past 7 years.

 

I did not attack you. I merely scoffed at your posted opinion that Crean developed "Hulls, Watford, Sheehey, Oladipo. All 4 of them developed by Crean". 

 

Ths is not personal, so not sure why you are taking it that way. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine is simply that Crean did NOT develop Hulls, Watford, Sheehey (or) Oladipo.

[Bobman1 2,909]

I agree, this has been a program that was a dump before Crean got here. His first season he won 6 games, and has only improved. He shouldn't be fired after one season not making the tournament. Look at John Beilein, they didn't make the NIT, should he be fired?

[ALASKA HOOSIER 11,265]

@Stuhoo~ they trying to keep the brother down