College Bball Thread

[WayneFleekHoosier]

They already go thru it picking colleges out of high school. Now you have hardship cases, 5th year grads so why stop there? If an athlete explodes and wants to transfer up or the opposite, they should be treated just like any coach who wants to leave. Should a student athlete be treated any different than any other student?

Yes. Yes they should. That school invested money and time in that specific kid to train them for the future. A normal student isn't bound the same way.

Plus, these fickle minded youngsters would get benched a game and want to transfer. It would be ugly IMO.

Hardship cases are good. I don't love 5th year grads at all, but I can live with it. At least these kids fulfilled their promises.

A 1 year penalty makes kids truly consider if transferring is the right move versus deciding all willy nilly.


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[HoosierHoops1]

9 hours ago, schoosier said:

They already go thru it picking colleges out of high school. Now you have hardship cases, 5th year grads so why stop there? If an athlete explodes and wants to transfer up or the opposite, they should be treated just like any coach who wants to leave. Should a student athlete be treated any different than any other student?

You're right. No more scholarships!

[HoosierHoops1]

10 hours ago, schoosier said:

The whole sit out a year to transfer needs to be gone. You get 5 to play 4 and athletes should be able to move just like coaches. 

Indiana would probably be sitting on 2 or less championships if this were the case,  kids would transfer rather than learning, growing, adopting and becoming a vital member of a Bad A$$ team.

[Str8Hoosiers]

I am with Wayne on this.... They had their chance to make a choice and if they want to make another choice to transfer that is fine but there are repercussions to making that choice (sitting a year).

I do however think there should be a change to the Hardship transfer rules that specifically allow transfers immediately with out sitting for any coaching change. If the facts that led the kid to choose school A change based on something out of their control then they should be able to choose again, but if they are sad they aren't getting the playing time sorry for them.

The situation of not being noticed in high school so going to a smaller school and then blowing up and wanting to transfer to a bigger school are a bit different and I find it hard to find an answer for this problem, but I don't believe free agency is the answer.

[Brass Cannon]

8 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

I am with Wayne on this.... They had their chance to make a choice and if they want to make another choice to transfer that is fine but there are repercussions to making that choice (sitting a year).

I do however think there should be a change to the Hardship transfer rules that specifically allow transfers immediately with out sitting for any coaching change. If the facts that led the kid to choose school A change based on something out of their control then they should be able to choose again, but if they are sad they aren't getting the playing time sorry for them.

The situation of not being noticed in high school so going to a smaller school and then blowing up and wanting to transfer to a bigger school are a bit different and I find it hard to find an answer for this problem, but I don't believe free agency is the answer.

Coaches make choices too?  Why shouldnt they have to live with their choice?

[HoosierHoops1]

8 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Plus, these fickle minded youngsters would get benched a game and want to transfer. It would be ugly IMO.

Lawrence Funderburke scored 26 points in his 6th game, then was kicked out of practice a couple days later (probably for doing something that he had already been told to "knock it off") and quit the team, even though he had to sit a year. With no transfer penalty and the seemingly less current coping skills, 4 or 5 people could transfer every season.

Coaches would be in the after game handshake line; "You sure you still want to play for that a-hole? We have a starting spot in your position open next season. We would love to have you"

It would be a mess.

[323SGrant]

Lawrence Funderburke scored 26 points in his 6th game, then was kicked out of practice a couple days later (probably for doing something that he had already been told to "knock it off") and quit the team, even though he had to sit a year. With no transfer penalty and the seemingly less current coping skills, 4 or 5 people could transfer every season.
Coaches would be in the after game handshake line; "You sure you still want to play for that a-hole? We have a starting spot in your position open next season. We would love to have you"
It would be a mess.

Funderburke had a lot of talent. Too bad it didn’t work out for him at IU. IMHO, he could’ve helped the Cheaney team win a National Championship if he had the right attitude.


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

I don’t like that. Free agency of College basketball would be out of control. Any halfway disgruntled kid would transfer.


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IMO, the having to wait a year rule should stay with one exception. If a Coach leaves for a new job, a player from that program should be allowed to transfer and play immediately. The vast majority of these kids dont choose the school, but the coach's program.

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[WayneFleekHoosier]

IMO, the having to wait a year rule should stay with one exception. If a Coach leaves for a new job, a player from that program should be allowed to transfer and play immediately. The vast majority of these kids dont choose the school, but the coach's program.

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I agree with this.


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[SlamaJamaSisley]

50 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I agree with this.


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Yes, I agree with this too.  If nothing else changes (and I know it will), this should.  

[Str8Hoosiers]

6 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Coaches make choices too?  Why shouldn't they have to live with their choice?

They do.

They have to forfeit the rest of the money they could have potentially received from their choice. I don't follow coaches contracts much but I am sure some have to pay back portions (signing bonus if that is a thing for coaches). If they choose to go to another school that effects their legacy and future employment.

Just because they don't have to sit out a year doesn't mean they don't have to live with the consequences of said choice.

*** Also a note I never said that a player has to live with their choice, they just have to live with the consequences of that choice and all future choices. They commit to a school that doesn't mean they have to just live with that... it means if they make another choice to change schools then there are consequences to those choices and that is what they have to live with. 

 

[Brass Cannon]

51 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

They do.

They have to forfeit the rest of the money they could have potentially received from their choice. I don't follow coaches contracts much but I am sure some have to pay back portions (signing bonus if that is a thing for coaches). If they choose to go to another school that effects their legacy and future employment.

Just because they don't have to sit out a year doesn't mean they don't have to live with the consequences of said choice.

*** Also a note I never said that a player has to live with their choice, they just have to live with the consequences of that choice and all future choices. They commit to a school that doesn't mean they have to just live with that... it means if they make another choice to change schools then there are consequences to those choices and that is what they have to live with. 

 

They only have to pay it back if they get another job. So it’s no loss to them 

[Uspshoosier]

https://nypost.com/2018/08/09/wake-forest-basketball-coach-charged-in-deadly-queens-attack-on-tourist/
Yikes


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[HoosierHoops1]

4 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

https://nypost.com/2018/08/09/wake-forest-basketball-coach-charged-in-deadly-queens-attack-on-tourist/
Yikes


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wow

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

30 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

https://nypost.com/2018/08/09/wake-forest-basketball-coach-charged-in-deadly-queens-attack-on-tourist/
Yikes


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The spin doctors will have to work overtime on this one.  Horrible that it occurred.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Sounds like the tourist was being a real jerk and the coach made a bad decision that resulted in the worst outcome possible. Unfortunate situation.


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[Str8Hoosiers]

18 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

They only have to pay it back if they get another job. So it’s no loss to them 

Why would they CHOOSE to leave if they didn't have another job?

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

Why would they CHOOSE to leave if they didn't have another job?

Why would a kid choose to leave if they didn’t think they could get on another team?  

This is just another case of wanting to hold young people to some mythical standard that doesn’t exist in the real world. 

Either make coaches set a year after they leave a school or let players transfer without sitting.  They both made choices that they regret. I don’t see why Holtmann gets to bail on Butler for a better opportunity and it’s not a problem. But a kid who realizes he made a mistake has to be punished for it. 

[Str8Hoosiers]

4 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Why would a kid choose to leave if they didn’t think they could get on another team?  

This is just another case of wanting to hold young people to some mythical standard that doesn’t exist in the real world. 

Either make coaches set a year after they leave a school or let players transfer without sitting.  They both made choices that they regret. I don’t see why Holtmann gets to bail on Butler for a better opportunity and it’s not a problem. But a kid who realizes he made a mistake has to be punished for it. 

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here, I am missing it.

You are correct a kid wouldn't choose to leave if they didn't think they could get on another team... They most definitely will, no matter if it is up a level, down a level, or on the same level, when a kid is transferring they ARE getting on another team. And if a Coach is leaving then he IS getting on another team. So as you said he has to pay back some money as a repercussion.

 

Mythical Standard? Doesn't exist in the real world? What world is that?

In the world I live in I have many choices to make and I have to deal with the consequences of those choices. What you are advocating for is there to be no consequences and no repercussions and that is absolutely NOT like the real world. That is the everybody gets a trophy mentality and that is not the way the real world works. 

 

Coaches and Players are NOT the same... a Coach is an employee and a player is not.... a Player doesn't make money (presumably) therefore there is no monetary repayment to be made... a Coach isn't on a short list of time eligibility therefore requiring them to sit isn't the same thing. A Coach gets paid under contract, so if they break that contract they pay it back or face the whatever repercussions are listed in the contract. The Student athlete has basically a contract for the scholarship and if he breaks it part of the language of this mythical contract are that if you transfer to another school to play a sport then you must sit out 1 year before being eligible... they know this upfront, if they still choose to transfer then they can but they must face the consequences of that choice.

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here, I am missing it.

You are correct a kid wouldn't choose to leave if they didn't think they could get on another team... They most definitely will, no matter if it is up a level, down a level, or on the same level, when a kid is transferring they ARE getting on another team. And if a Coach is leaving then he IS getting on another team. So as you said he has to pay back some money as a repercussion.

 

Mythical Standard? Doesn't exist in the real world? What world is that?

In the world I live in I have many choices to make and I have to deal with the consequences of those choices. What you are advocating for is there to be no consequences and no repercussions and that is absolutely NOT like the real world. That is the everybody gets a trophy mentality and that is not the way the real world works. 

 

Coaches and Players are NOT the same... a Coach is an employee and a player is not.... a Player doesn't make money (presumably) therefore there is no monetary repayment to be made... a Coach isn't on a short list of time eligibility therefore requiring them to sit isn't the same thing. A Coach gets paid under contract, so if they break that contract they pay it back or face the whatever repercussions are listed in the contract. The Student athlete has basically a contract for the scholarship and if he breaks it part of the language of this mythical contract are that if you transfer to another school to play a sport then you must sit out 1 year before being eligible... they know this upfront, if they still choose to transfer then they can but they must face the consequences of that choice.

You are literally arguing that we shouldn’t change what the kids contract says because the kids contract says it. That’s a great excuse to never change anything. 

And no this isn’t the same because coaches get to negotiate their contract  these kids don’t get to negotiate this bs clause out of their contract