Hollowell & Etherington transferring..

[CR3AMnCR1MS0N 1,867]

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WORD!

[JaybobHoosier 11,839]

He's alive!!! Welcome to the site! Let me know if you need me to show you around :)


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Oh I've been around a lot, just not posting much. Just pretty disappointed with the state of the program right now. I will always support IU basketball, doesn't mean I have to like what's going on. I will just leave it at that!

[bronkonagurski 894]

Honestly I don't find it to be a mind-blowing discovery that each kid is treated differently and to some extent based on talent level.  If I'm getting paid millions to coach in a pressure cooker then I'm sure as hell not treating my lottery picks the same as the other guys.  Now granted, you have to find the right balance.  No I'm not a coach so I'm just talking out my wazoo but to me it still makes sense.  

[coachmayhew 1,414]

[quote name="JaybobHoosier" post="53737" timestamp="1395804954"]Oh I've been around a lot, just not posting much. Just pretty disappointed with the state of the program right now. I will always support IU basketball, doesn't mean I have to like what's going on. I will just leave it at that![/quote]

Tomorrow is another chance for greatness, it is when the sun doesn't rise is when the real problems start. It is not all sunshine & rainbows now but tomorrow is our future and this sunshine pumper believes that this is Indiana. We can and will win eventually. Keep calm and Hoosier on.

Plus every other team is not named the Hoosiers, who else you gonna root for?

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[Basketball4iU 2,006]

[quote name="EvilleAngler" post="53697" timestamp="1395800420"]Is this an example of "talking back" or just banter between ultra-competitive WS and coach?[/quote]
Just banter


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[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

Some of you guys act like this is the aftermath of the Kelvin Sampson debacle... IU had a sub par year. But what did you expect this season? There was so much turnover. Vonleh was as advertised, but Crean isn't Cheatipari. This wasn't a fab 5 style recruiting class. Most teams struggle when they have to rely on so many freshmen.

 

I seem to be in the minority when I say that i am cautiously optimistinc about this program. I really like the guys coming in next season, and I am excited to see guys like Troy, Stan, and Davis with a year of experience under their belts. Not to mention Yogi coming back a year older and wiser.

 

Is it a little disturbing that guys are transferring or leaving the program? I don't know.. Hollowell obviously had attitude problems, Etherington I could take or leave, and Marlin.. Seriously?

 

I'm not saying there aren't issues, like who's going to play the post??? But if you look at Crean's teams historically, he likes the smaller, quicker, guard oriented lineups which I think could bode well for the group of guys he's compiled for 2014-2015. Just my two cents.

[Stuhoo 79,586]

Honestly I don't find it to be a mind-blowing discovery that each kid is treated differently and to some extent based on talent level.  If I'm getting paid millions to coach in a pressure cooker then I'm sure as hell not treating my lottery picks the same as the other guys.  Now granted, you have to find the right balance.  No I'm not a coach so I'm just talking out my wazoo but to me it still makes sense.  

 

Your wazoo speaks the truth.

[schoosier 3,451]

Some of you guys act like this is the aftermath of the Kelvin Sampson debacle... IU had a sub par year. But what did you expect this season? There was so much turnover. Vonleh was as advertised, but Crean isn't Cheatipari. This wasn't a fab 5 style recruiting class. Most teams struggle when they have to rely on so many freshmen.
 
I seem to be in the minority when I say that i am cautiously optimistinc about this program. I really like the guys coming in next season, and I am excited to see guys like Troy, Stan, and Davis with a year of experience under their belts. Not to mention Yogi coming back a year older and wiser.
 
Is it a little disturbing that guys are transferring or leaving the program? I don't know.. Hollowell obviously had attitude problems, Etherington I could take or leave, and Marlin.. Seriously?
 
I'm not saying there aren't issues, like who's going to play the post??? But if you look at Crean's teams historically, he likes the smaller, quicker, guard oriented lineups which I think could bode well for the group of guys he's compiled for 2014-2015. Just my two cents.

If you look at Creans team historically, how can you be optimistic at all? They will be high on turnovers and short on length. Now going on year 7 or 8(really can't remember) in the B1G, you would think Crean would have figured out the two I have mentioned results in losses. Something Crean has been really good at IU. Thank God for Purdue(who kicked our a$$), or we would have been dead last in the league. Again, something Crean has been good at IU.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

If you look at Creans team historically, how can you be optimistic at all? They will be high on turnovers and short on length. Now going on year 7 or 8(really can't remember) in the B1G, you would think Crean would have figured out the two I have mentioned results in losses. Something Crean has been really good at IU. Thank God for Purdue(who kicked our a$$), or we would have been dead last in the league. Again, something Crean has been good at IU.

 

So Crean is to blame for sloppy ball handling? He started 2 or 3 freshmen, and a sophomore every game this season.

 

How could you possibly blame the first 2 or 3 seasons on Crean? He started with NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. He recruited his players and made this a winning team. They went from the basement to the sweet 16 in back to back years. Now this year he's a few games over .500 with a completely revamped lineup and the sky is falling?

 

What was IU doing that was so great before Crean got here? 2002 was an amazing run, but before the last two seasons, if i remember correctly, IU hadn't been to the Sweet 16 in quite some time. This isn't 1987. Crean has had to completely rebuild the IU brand,. Is he the best in-game coach? Absolutely not. Does he make some questionable decisions at times? Yup. But he's built a nice group of recruiters, and has this program back on the right track. Stop hating on the guy for having a mediocre season.

[Stuhoo 79,586]

If you look at Creans team historically, how can you be optimistic at all? They will be high on turnovers and short on length. Now going on year 7 or 8(really can't remember) in the B1G, you would think Crean would have figured out the two I have mentioned results in losses. Something Crean has been really good at IU. Thank God for Purdue(who kicked our a$$), or we would have been dead last in the league. Again, something Crean has been good at IU.

 

This post would be a damning indictment of CTC's teams were it true, but it is not. 

 

We were very high on turnovers last year. With a sophomore pg, a freshman 2 guard, and a freshman at the 3 spot.

The two years before last we were not high on turnovers. Experience = fewer turnovers. Period.

 

Length? This coming year, Yogi is not a "long" player. Hanner is. Troy is. Devin, if he plays the 4, is. Stan is. AntLee, if he comes to IU is. JB2? A little longer and taller than you think. RoJo? Not long. Yante and Josh C? Both very long for their positions. Max? Doesn't seem so. 

 

Overall? Better outside shooting, more experience with our ballhandlers. And...pretty much gotta be better team chemistry. 

[Rayl 527]

This post would be a damning indictment of CTC's teams were it true, but it is not. 
 
We were very high on turnovers last year. With a sophomore pg, a freshman 2 guard, and a freshman at the 3 spot.
The two years before last we were not high on turnovers. Experience = fewer turnovers. Period.
 
Length? This coming year, Yogi is not a "long" player. Hanner is. Troy is. Devin, if he plays the 4, is. Stan is. AntLee, if he comes to IU is. JB2? A little longer and taller than you think. RoJo? Not long. Yante and Josh C? Both very long for their positions. Max? Doesn't seem so. 
 
Overall? Better outside shooting, more experience with our ballhandlers. And...pretty much gotta be better team chemistry.

Crean has historically been relatively bad about turnovers. Only once has one of his teams finished in the top half of its conference in turnover rate. Taking care of the ball is just not something Cream's teams do well. This season was an outlier as to how bad they could be, but don't expect a Crean team to ever be good at not tuning the ball over.

[CottageGrove 563]

If you look at Creans team historically, how can you be optimistic at all? They will be high on turnovers and short on length. Now going on year 7 or 8(really can't remember) in the B1G, you would think Crean would have figured out the two I have mentioned results in losses. Something Crean has been really good at IU. Thank God for Purdue(who kicked our a$$), or we would have been dead last in the league. Again, something Crean has been good at IU.

 

We finished 11th in the league this year? That's weird. I could have sworn we played in the 8/9 game in the tourney. DWS

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="Baltimore Hoosier" post="53770" timestamp="1395837014"]Some of you guys act like this is the aftermath of the Kelvin Sampson debacle... IU had a sub par year. But what did you expect this season? There was so much turnover. Vonleh was as advertised, but Crean isn't Cheatipari. This wasn't a fab 5 style recruiting class. Most teams struggle when they have to rely on so many freshmen.

I seem to be in the minority when I say that i am cautiously optimistinc about this program. I really like the guys coming in next season, and I am excited to see guys like Troy, Stan, and Davis with a year of experience under their belts. Not to mention Yogi coming back a year older and wiser.

Is it a little disturbing that guys are transferring or leaving the program? I don't know.. Hollowell obviously had attitude problems, Etherington I could take or leave, and Marlin.. Seriously?

I'm not saying there aren't issues, like who's going to play the post??? But if you look at Crean's teams historically, he likes the smaller, quicker, guard oriented lineups which I think could bode well for the group of guys he's compiled for 2014-2015. Just my two cents.[/quote]

Good post. I'm with you on this one. I think we are going to be good next year. I think we fill the biggest void we lacked which is shooting. A big isn't essential in Crean's system, so I don't know why people get so bent out of shape on not having a big next year.


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[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="Rayl" post="53782" timestamp="1395840166"]Crean has historically been relatively bad about turnovers. Only once has one of his teams finished in the top half of its conference in turnover rate. Taking care of the ball is just not something Cream's teams do well. This season was an outlier as to how bad they could be, but don't expect a Crean team to ever be good at not tuning the ball over.[/quote]

Turnovers are an issue, but they are a product of the offense. When you require kids to push the ball constantly throughout the game, you will have turnovers. It's going to happen, but it's about limiting the dumb turnovers that a youth led team can do. We won't have as many of those this year.


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[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="schoosier" post="53775" timestamp="1395838313"]If you look at Creans team historically, how can you be optimistic at all? They will be high on turnovers and short on length. Now going on year 7 or 8(really can't remember) in the B1G, you would think Crean would have figured out the two I have mentioned results in losses. Something Crean has been really good at IU. Thank God for Purdue(who kicked our a$$), or we would have been dead last in the league. Again, something Crean has been good at IU.[/quote]

[attachment=645:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1395840568.089118.jpg]

Fixed it for ya:
"Thank God for Illinois, Penn State, northwestern AND Purdue."


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[Stuhoo 79,586]

Crean has historically been relatively bad about turnovers. Only once has one of his teams finished in the top half of its conference in turnover rate. Taking care of the ball is just not something Cream's teams do well. This season was an outlier as to how bad they could be, but don't expect a Crean team to ever be good at not tuning the ball over.

 

We play at a fast pace and have had pretty good points per possession numbers in the years preceding last year.

 

Low turnovers as a highlighted positive number?

Wisconsin, we ain't.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

Indiana BB Guess Who?

#1

 

7.4 PPG

1.1 SPG

3.7 RPG

59% 2P%

30% 3P%

.9 AST

1.4 TO

 

#2

 

7.3 PPG

.8 SPG

4.4 RPG

57% 2P%

21% 3P%

.9 AST

1.8 TO

[Golfman25 4,994]

[quote name="Baltimore Hoosier" post="53778" timestamp="1395839228"]So Crean is to blame for sloppy ball handling? He started 2 or 3 freshmen, and a sophomore every game this season.

How could you possibly blame the first 2 or 3 seasons on Crean? He started with NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. He recruited his players and made this a winning team. They went from the basement to the sweet 16 in back to back years. Now this year he's a few games over .500 with a completely revamped lineup and the sky is falling?

What was IU doing that was so great before Crean got here? 2002 was an amazing run, but before the last two seasons, if i remember correctly, IU hadn't been to the Sweet 16 in quite some time. This isn't 1987. Crean has had to completely rebuild the IU brand,. Is he the best in-game coach? Absolutely not. Does he make some questionable decisions at times? Yup. But he's built a nice group of recruiters, and has this program back on the right track. Stop hating on the guy for having a mediocre season.[/quote]

The problem is you can't start upperclassmen if you don't have any. You build a program with 4 year type of players. They pass along the expectations etc. to the young ones. If you get a kid that goes to the nba after 2 or 3 years that's fine. But the bulk of your team needs to stick around. That is not happening now. And these are crean recruits. We need to get to the point where freshman are only good to carry jocks and water. Not expecting them to come in an lead the team in scoring.


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[Rayl 527]

Turnovers are an issue, but they are a product of the offense. When you require kids to push the ball constantly throughout the game, you will have turnovers. It's going to happen, but it's about limiting the dumb turnovers that a youth led team can do. We won't have as many of those this year. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

To an extent sure, which I said turnover rate to account for tempo. But that's not the whole story. On mobile, so I won't post full details. Take a look at Duke's historical numbers. You will find that their teams that play at a fast tempo, don't finish with the same relatively high turnover rates. Just as one example, the 2008 Duke team played at a faster tempo than any Tom Crean coached team. They also had the 28th lowest turnover percentage in the country, which is better than any Crean coached team.

One example, I know. But, there is more to turnovers by Crean's teams than just tempo.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

The problem is you can't start upperclassmen if you don't have any. You build a program with 4 year type of players. They pass along the expectations etc. to the young ones. If you get a kid that goes to the nba after 2 or 3 years that's fine. But the bulk of your team needs to stick around. That is not happening now. And these are crean recruits. We need to get to the point where freshman are only good to carry jocks and water. Not expecting them to come in an lead the team in scoring.


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Vonleh and Zeller are the only two Crean players to leave early if memory serves correct.. And guys like Hollowell? Do we really want them on this team to mentor the younger players? I think not.