Michigan Coach Dusty May to Dallas Mavs

[AH1971]

11 minutes ago, skhoosier2 said:

Kelvin Sampson was always going to fail at IU because Knight disciples didn’t want him there. He made mistakes ofcourse but there’s not one doubt the man can coach, and he above all others we hired could have won at the  level IUBB was looking for. 

Woodson was a terrible hire that got lucky he was buddies with QB and had TJD to make him look a little bit successful. 

Of course he could coach, but there was no way he was freely going to get away with how he operated nor should have it been enabled. 

[AZ Hoosier]

1 hour ago, skhoosier2 said:

The basketball program has been on life support. So for me yes, I’d take a few big 10 championships and a couple sweet 16 appearances. It’s been dead so long all I really hope for at this point is a tournament team yearly lol 

Tom Allen needed to go just as Crean needed to go when he went. Cig is a unicorn. Football is a cash cow for universities and if I had gun to head choose basketball or football I’m choosing football all day long. Hopefully CDD turns the program in a positive direction. But I am under no illusion anyone is doing what Cig did anytime soon. 

IMO, this is exactly how we got to where we were. After Knight's glory years (73-90), we started settling for lesser goals. Consistently making the tournament replaced winning the tournament.
Next. Sweet 16s replaced Final 4s.
Then, Competing for the B1G championship replaced winning the league.

As once we started missing on our goals, we continued to lower the goals and the expectations. Pretty soon, we ended up right where you said you (and most of us) are.

[str8baller]

27 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

How did IU hire Cig? Pure luck.

I was hoping you would say that. I have no doubt some luck is involved. 
 

Basic statistical analysis and game theory would say that the more luck that is involved the quicker you should fire coaches. If it’s pure luck as you state you should probably never let a non-championship caliber coach reach year 4, let alone year 5+. Why? More bites at the apple. If it’s luck you want to be hiring as many coaches as possible (and thus firing them quickly).  
 

So it is always funny to me when fans like you defend keeping poor coaches extra years praying your frog will turn into a prince. The winning strategy is firing coaches often and early. But that’s a hard concept for some—especially IU fans—to grasp.

[AZ Hoosier]

4 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Hiring Kelvin Sampson was the biggest mistake IU made in the post-Knight era

Not even close.

(1) Woodson is the answer to that question. No one wanted him except his buddy Quinn. No one else was remotely interested in him.

(2) Davis was given the job to appease the players, but that was a bad move, as well. 

[AH1971]

7 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I was hoping you would say that. I have no doubt some luck is involved. 
 

Basic statistical analysis and game theory would say that the more luck that is involved the quicker you should fire coaches. If it’s pure luck as you state you should probably never let a non-championship caliber coach reach year 4, let alone year 5+. Why? More bites at the apple. If it’s luck you want to be hiring as many coaches as possible (and thus firing them quickly).  
 

So it is always funny to me when fans like you defend keeping poor coaches extra years praying your frog will turn into a prince. The winning strategy is firing coaches often and early. But that’s a hard concept for some—especially IU fans—to grasp.

The two most successful coaches in college basketball history weren’t “championship caliber coaches” by years 4 or 5. The best coach in college basketball today didn’t win a tournament game until year 5. This lunacy that you have to fire a coach every 2-3 years is exactly why IU will remain a meddling program going forward. There’s no culture, no continuity, no momentum, no nothing. It’s a wasteland job.

The statistical probability of winning a college basketball title is already very low. The probability of catching lightning in a bottle and winning a championship in years 1 and 2 is even lower. 
 

Your theory makes zero sense.

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Not even close. Woodson is the answer to that question. No one wanted him except his buddy Quinn. No one else was remotely interested in him. Davis was given the job to appease the players, but that was a bad move, as well. 

It isn’t. Sampson trashed the program and ruined what any image IU had left. Your disdain for Woodson is borderline unhealthy…all because he told you to chill out.

[Uspshoosier]

[AZ Hoosier]

17 hours ago, AH1971 said:

It isn’t. Sampson trashed the program and ruined what any image IU had left. Your disdain for Woodson is borderline unhealthy…all because he told you to chill out.

Sampson didn't trash the program. IU self-reported what today is a non-issue and then fell on its sword to show the NCAA how contrite it was. IU was desperate to maintain a "squeaky clean" reputation, to the absolute detriment of the basketball program.

My disdain for Woodson is 100% warranted. He was given the job that he didn't deserve. He was entitled, lazy, petty and protected. He (and Buckner) have earned every bit of my disdain, in spades.

[AH1971]

Just now, AZ Hoosier said:

Sampson didn't trash the program. IU self-reported what today is a non-issue and then fell on its sword to show the NCAA how contrite it was. IU was desperate to maintain a "squeaky clean" reputation, to absolute detriment of the basketball program.

Trashed the program. Cheated without reprieve and recruited literal convicts and gangbangers to the program. Anybody who supports that is a dirtbag. 

[str8baller]

34 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

He forced a defense the team never understood.

I think they understood. It was just a dumb fundamentally flawed scheme. 

[JSHoosier]

22 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

IMO, this is exactly how we got to where we were. After Knight's glory years (73-90), we started settling for lesser goals. Consistently making the tournament replaced winning the tournament.
Next. Sweet 16s replaced Final 4s.
Then, Competing for the B1G championship replaced winning the league.

As once we started missing on our goals, we continued to lower the goals and the expectations. Pretty soon, we ended up right where you said you (and most of us) are.

Sums up my stance. Instead of holding expectations we've continually lowered them and made excuses.

[str8baller]

12 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

The two most successful coaches in college basketball history weren’t “championship caliber coaches” by years 4 or 5.

Yes they were. 
 

You couldn’t see it. 
 

But their ADs did and that’s why they weren’t fired. But just because you can’t see the logic in something doesn’t mean more qualified people can’t.  
 

People bring up Dean Smith, Coach K, Hurley, whatever…but if you go back and look and read what their ADs had to say, they were never in danger of being fired. In fact, you would have to search far and wide to find a coach who was fired for performance at one school and then rebounded at another school and one a title.
 

This nightmare/myth of firing a great coach too early only to enviously standby like chubby bridesmaid while he wins a championship at his next school just doesn’t exist. It only exists in the minds of scared fans. I’ve been reading IU fans fearfully cry about it online for 25 years and it never fails to amuse me. It’s like when someone claims they are afraid of the woods because their friend saw Bigfoot. 

[AH1971]

4 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Yes they were. 
 

You couldn’t see it. 
 

But their ADs did and that’s why they weren’t fired. But just because you can’t see the logic in something doesn’t mean more qualified people can’t.  
 

People bring up Dean Smith, Coach K, Hurley, whatever…but if you go back and look and read what their ADs had to say, they were never in danger of being fired. In fact, you would have to search far and wide to find a coach who was fired for performance at one school and then rebounded at another school and one a title.
 

This nightmare/myth of firing a great coach too early only to enviously standby like chubby bridesmaid while he wins a championship at his next school just doesn’t exist. It only exists in the minds of scared fans. I’ve been reading IU fans fearfully cry about it online for 25 years and it never fails to amuse me. It’s like when someone claims they are afraid of the woods because their friend saw Bigfoot. 

Who is a scared fan? I’ve seen IU win multiple titles. I’m heady enough to know what Bob Knight did at Indiana isn’t replicable and finding his clone isn’t sustainable. Cycling coaches every 3-4 years has made Indiana an undesirable job and it gets worse by the year. Forget the Brad Steven’s or Dusty May’s, there’s a reason why guys like Josh Schertz or Ben McCollum wouldn’t/won’t ever entertain this job 

[skhoosier2]

2 hours ago, AZ Hoosier said:

IMO, this is exactly how we got to where we were. After Knight's glory years (73-90), we started settling for lesser goals. Consistently making the tournament replaced winning the tournament.
Next. Sweet 16s replaced Final 4s.
Then, Competing for the B1G championship replaced winning the league.

As once we started missing on our goals, we continued to lower the goals and the expectations. Pretty soon, we ended up right where you said you (and most of us) are.

It’s very sad the state of the fandom for the basketball program. This year after the natty I really couldn’t have cared less about basketball. I watched but these last probably 10 years my desire to get invested in IUBB has waned to apathy. It’s unfortunate that our once blue blood championship caliber program has been reduced to hoping to hear our name called on selection Sunday but that’s exactly what I’m willing to accept right now because I don’t have confidence we can achieve much more than that sadly. 

[Golfman25]

20 hours ago, AH1971 said:

The problem with going the mid-major route…are you going to give that mid-major coach time to get his feet wet and figure it out? This fan base has put this job so high up on a pedestal that simply doesn’t exist. It’s a lose-lose. 

That right there is the problem.  Whether the guy is mid-major, high-major or no-major, he should be able to take the job and put IU on a path to success without "getting his feet wet" or "figuring it out."  If you don't know enough on how to compete at the job your taking, then you aren't ready for the job.  Nobody says it's easy, but that's why they get paid the big bucks.  

The thing you need to watch for with the mid-major guys is are they winning due to a "gimmick" and are they willing to adopt a broader approach at the P5 level?  You can win at lower levels being one sided (pack line D, "Havoc," etc.) but get exposed at the higher levels.   

[Golfman25]

18 hours ago, AH1971 said:

The two most successful coaches in college basketball history weren’t “championship caliber coaches” by years 4 or 5. The best coach in college basketball today didn’t win a tournament game until year 5. This lunacy that you have to fire a coach every 2-3 years is exactly why IU will remain a meddling program going forward. There’s no culture, no continuity, no momentum, no nothing. It’s a wasteland job.

The statistical probability of winning a college basketball title is already very low. The probability of catching lightning in a bottle and winning a championship in years 1 and 2 is even lower. 
 

Your theory makes zero sense.

You need to account for pre and post transfer portal (2021).   Prior to the portal and NIL, it took several years to build a team.  With the transfer rules today, teams can be build much faster.  But you know that. 

Hurley actually won 2 tourney games before he joined Uconn.