President Whitten - 2024 Faculty No Vote

[Josh 12,621]

1 hour ago, AKHoosier said:

Yeah that's ridiculous. 

You can't claim to have a firm grasp on every rural district in Indiana, or anywhere. You can only speak to your experience. 

I've had a kid in daycare for about a year now, and have already had to fight battles regarding some of the extreme curriculum and "values" taught to kids who are barely walking. Stuff that would be downright shocking to anyone with a pulse even 10 years ago. 

Trust me. If it's happening here, it's happening everywhere. 

He can only speak to his experience, not everywhere.  So shouldn't you just think that your experience is only at your own private daycare?   You seem to be projecting while disallowing him to do so

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,672]

5 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Thanks for the response.  I have been a teacher for 30+ years.  While I have seen some thing that parents have reason to complete about, the fictional narrative that is being created about what is actually going on in schools is nowhere near the narrative — most definitely not in rural Indiana.

May not be the case in all schools... But without push back, it'll get there. If the community is blind to what's happening in a school, easy for it to get out of hand. But the amount of disgusting behavior that is allowed in schools by administration and teachers... Behavior that is applauded even... There has began a massive push ack on it all recently and it's a great thing. Society should reject terrible ideas. Especially ideas that harm children.

[Stuhoo 80,538]

16 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

May not be the case in all schools... But without push back, it'll get there. If the community is blind to what's happening in a school, easy for it to get out of hand. But the amount of disgusting behavior that is allowed in schools by administration and teachers... Behavior that is applauded even... There has began a massive push ack on it all recently and it's a great thing. Society should reject terrible ideas. Especially ideas that harm children.

This is actually a really good post.

But for context, one person’s definition of “bad behavior” can be another person’s definition of good or necessary behavior. I appreciate that your post did not define which side of any hot-button current behavior is the “bad” behavior.

It’s that back and forth push and pull that eventually becomes the current cultural standard, and that standard is constantly shifting and evolving. Because that’s the way the world works.

[AKHoosier 6,854]

14 minutes ago, Josh said:

He can only speak to his experience, not everywhere.  So shouldn't you just think that your experience is only at your own private daycare?   You seem to be projecting while disallowing him to do so

My point is that I've only had a kid in daycare for a year, and already I've had issues with people who are responsible for my son's welfare 7 hours a day.

I can't imagine what it will be like when he's in school in 5 years if people don't push back.

Someone who has 30+ experience, respectfully, that doesn't mean anything to me. The stuff being passed off as education today would never have made it into the classroom in the 1990s and 2000s. Things have only hit the fan in the last ~5 years IMO.

[Golfman25 5,334]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

This is actually a really good post.

But for context, one person’s definition of “bad behavior” can be another person’s definition of good or necessary behavior.

It’s that back and forth push and pull that eventually becomes the current cultural standard, and that standard is constantly shifting and evolving. Because that’s the way the world works.

So there is no floor on “bad behavior?”  No line we shouldn’t go over?

[Stuhoo 80,538]

Just now, AKHoosier said:

My point is that I've only had a kid in daycare for a year, and already I've had issues with people who are responsible for my son's welfare 7 hours a day.

I can't imagine what it will be like when he's in school in 5 years if people don't push back.

Someone who has 30+ experience, respectfully, that doesn't mean anything to me. The stuff being passed off as education today would never have made it into the classroom in the 1990s and 2000s. Things have only hit the fan in the last ~5 years IMO.

Is it a private daycare facility?

Because a private daycare facility can set whatever standards it wants (as long as it’s legal).

And the customers of private daycare facilities are welcome to vote with their feet.

[Stuhoo 80,538]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

So there is no floor on “bad behavior?”  No line we shouldn’t go over?

Didn’t say that! Of course there is—the criminal and administrative law.

For instance (and this is certainly not something you said or implied): 75 years ago bad, over the line behavior included blacks eating in restaurants that served white people.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,672]

10 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

This is actually a really good post.

But for context, one person’s definition of “bad behavior” can be another person’s definition of good or necessary behavior. I appreciate that your post did not define which side of any hot-button current behavior is the “bad” behavior.

It’s that back and forth push and pull that eventually becomes the current cultural standard, and that standard is constantly shifting and evolving. Because that’s the way the world works.

I figured anything more clear cut should stay in private messages, X or FB or wherever else. Not on Btownbanners. I've been banned here enough LOL.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,307]

I have 3 boys in the Fort Wayne public schools. One in EL, middle, and high school. Some of you would be surprised on the stuff teachers think is ok to talk about and “teach”. Some of it is embedded in the curriculum in clever manners. But a lot of it is ideologies that get discussed in the classroom.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners

[RaceToTheTop 25,622]

Sorry, but all I keep reading is ‘you wouldn’t believe what they are teaching’ with not a single example cited. It’s not like I’m asking for top secret government information.  Certainly can’t make an informed decision on whether it is specific to a school curriculum or if it was specific to a teacher, much less whether we can agree on if it was truly objectionable material in our subjective viewpoint.

[RaceToTheTop 25,622]

42 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I have 3 boys in the Fort Wayne public schools. One in EL, middle, and high school. Some of you would be surprised on the stuff teachers think is ok to talk about and “teach”. Some of it is embedded in the curriculum in clever manners. But a lot of it is ideologies that get discussed in the classroom.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners

I can’t be surprised by what they teach or talk about because you haven’t said anything it is that you object to.  It’s not like I am going to automatically jump to the defense of a teacher that I don’t know or a district I don’t teach at. I am getting frustrated at being told (this wasn’t you) that I basically don’t know what’s going on in education and then hearing radio silence on exactly what it is that I don’t know.

[RaceToTheTop 25,622]

And while I personally prefer that thing you consider to be objectionable be discussed in the thread as I know that no one person is the arbiter of what is objectionable — I certainly am not — y’all know how to sent a message my way.

[BtownStrength 1,234]

4 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Sorry, but all I keep reading is ‘you wouldn’t believe what they are teaching’ with not a single example cited. It’s not like I’m asking for top secret government information.  Certainly can’t make an informed decision on whether it is specific to a school curriculum or if it was specific to a teacher, much less whether we can agree on if it was truly objectionable material in our subjective viewpoint.

I asked several pages back for clarification on this and also got (near) radio silence. I would be interested to hear the toxic and surprising (words from different posters) teachings in schools. Credit to @Golfman25who took time to respond to questions. 

[AKHoosier 6,854]

10 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Is it a private daycare facility?

Because a private daycare facility can set whatever standards it wants (as long as it’s legal).

And the customers of private daycare facilities are welcome to vote with their feet.

Of course that's an option, but that's not the point. I have a kid who is in the care of others for the day. In a few years it will be school. I'm well aware I can leave the daycare if I want, but didn't feel it was necessary.

But once it comes across my door when he is in school, likely public school, then what are my options? I'm supposed to up and leave, and find another public school? Rather than make my concerns known?

I definitely am not the type to go looking for a battle, but feel strongly about what is acceptable and what is not for kids to learn about at school/daycare. 

I will add after seeing how some school districts handled Covid, and knowing what's being taught in some schools, homeschooling is becoming an increasingly appealing option. I never thought I'd say that. 

[Stuhoo 80,538]

1 hour ago, AKHoosier said:

Of course that's an option, but that's not the point. I have a kid who is in the care of others for the day. In a few years it will be school. I'm well aware I can leave the daycare if I want, but didn't feel it was necessary.

But once it comes across my door when he is in school, likely public school, then what are my options? I'm supposed to up and leave, and find another public school? Rather than make my concerns known?

I definitely am not the type to go looking for a battle, but feel strongly about what is acceptable and what is not for kids to learn about at school/daycare. 

I will add after seeing how some school districts handled Covid, and knowing what's being taught in some schools, homeschooling is becoming an increasingly appealing option. I never thought I'd say that. 

Understood.

That's why government/public schools have more restrictions (or should) and private schools, including daycare facilities can be all in on a religious or political philosophy, as long as they don't discriminate against a protected class. 

For instance, a daycare facility can clearly state that they will proselytize about a particular religion as part of their curriculum, but cannot bar white, black, or green people from becoming customers. But they can bar those customers if they demand that that religion be removed from the curriculum, or scream in class about how wrong it is, because 'screaming people' are not a protected class.

So,  Burger King cannot ban people from their stores based on color, religion, gender, etc, but a vegan also cannot successfully demand that Burger King remove meat from the menu.

And for both private and public, everyone cannot "have it your way." Because that's an impossible burger.

[AKHoosier 6,854]

40 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Understood.

That's why government/public schools have more restrictions (or should) and private schools, including daycare facilities can be all in on a religious or political philosophy, as long as they don't discriminate against a protected class. 

For instance, a daycare facility can clearly state that they will proselytize about a particular religion as part of their curriculum, but cannot bar white, black, or green people from becoming customers. But they can bar those customers if they demand that that religion be removed from the curriculum, or scream in class about how wrong it is, because 'screaming people' are not a protected class.

In summary, it's not Burger King and everyone cannot "have it your way." Because that's impossible.

Definitely. And look, I'm not going to provide examples, because we all know what the hot button issues are today. Plus it would derail the thread further and make things more heated than they already are.

But your last sentence is most poignant. Since we can't all have it our own way, just let schools educate children to teach them skills, and let parents be the ones to instill values. 

[Banksyrules 4,719]

48 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

Definitely. And look, I'm not going to provide examples, because we all know what the hot button issues are today. Plus it would derail the thread further and make things more heated than they already are.

But your last sentence is most poignant. Since we can't all have it our own way, just let schools educate children to teach them skills, and let parents be the ones to instill values. 

Instilling values is a mixed bag for me. I think that everyone well meaning has good values to distribute but at the same time I think it’s also important to let them be aware of other values because like it or not one day they’re going to be with people who are different. Plus we’re too busy looking at ourselves and have hard time understanding that a lot of people don’t have good parents or even parents in general.  God if I let my dad instill his values I would no joke probably would have been some kind of South American crime boss. Again one particular doesn’t necessarily fit the whole.  

But if you’re dead set of your child be only a certain way I guarantee you that the classroom has little impact on that, it’s probably the kids your child chooses to hang with.  

 

[AKHoosier 6,854]

21 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

Instilling values is a mixed bag for me. I think that everyone well meaning has good values to distribute but at the same time I think it’s also important to let them be aware of other values because like it or not one day they’re going to be with people who are different. Plus we’re too busy looking at ourselves and have hard time understanding that a lot of people don’t have good parents or even parents in general.  God if I let my dad instill his values I would no joke probably would have been some kind of South American crime boss. Again one particular doesn’t necessarily fit the whole.  

But if you’re dead set of your child be only a certain way I guarantee you that the classroom has little impact on that, it’s probably the kids your child chooses to hang with.  

 

Yeah I don't disagree with most of this.

Honestly my wife and I don't even agree on everything I'm referring to. But I still want to be the ones who cover certain topics with our kids so we can both share our input, provide context, etc. 

Like someone said earlier, things get baked into school curriculum (NOT all) nowadays to the point where a controversial topic isn't even identified as a sensitive issue or an opinion. Rather, it's forced into establishing it as fact. It's designed with the intent to make up a child's mind without them even realizing it.

Sadly, I no longer have full trust in curriculum whether it's in daycare, elementary school, etc.

[Stuhoo 80,538]

If only our leaders and the public at large could have a substantive discussion that was as respectful and open minded as the one in this thread.

[Golfman25 5,334]

1 hour ago, AKHoosier said:

Definitely. And look, I'm not going to provide examples, because we all know what the hot button issues are today. Plus it would derail the thread further and make things more heated than they already are.

But your last sentence is most poignant. Since we can't all have it our own way, just let schools educate children to teach them skills, and let parents be the ones to instill values. 

Ah come on.  We are all big boys here.  I don't want to go to the penalty box, but can come up with several issues.  :)