President Whitten - 2024 Faculty No Vote

[Stuhoo 90,795]

38 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

uhhhhhh could it be possible that maybe you don't have all the information? Little give and take?

Of course!

36 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

a lot of the protests are being  started by Jewish organizations.  

I think “a lot” is an inaccurate broad brush.

Some? Okay sure. But when there are so many different motivations for so many different people that is only natural.

Also (IMO) something that is only natural: The media (broadly), which has a job to do that includes providing “interesting” content, will inevitably spend more bandwidth covering the most salacious moments by protesters, counter-protesters, administration, and law enforcement. 

[Napleshoosier 10,979]

6 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

I’m more concerned with the faculty that are encouraging them to “do some things in the wrong way,” the people that are unaffiliated with the university that are there to “do some things in the wrong way,” AND a university administration that was unprepared and has had a crappy plan for dealing with it all.

Faculty and outside influences!  You said it there.  The faculty better be glad I’m not President of IU.  And they’re the reason I refuse to give a dime to the school.  It’s not just IU it all over the country and they are having to much influence over your Kids!  Most of them are left wing nuts that couldn’t get a job in the real world!  There.  I’ve said my peace on this topic.  Very surprised it was left on the board because it’s 100% political no matter how one wants to dance around it.

 

 

[Stuhoo 90,795]

24 minutes ago, Napleshoosier said:

Faculty and outside influences!  You said it there.  The faculty better be glad I’m not President of IU.  And they’re the reason I refuse to give a dime to the school.  It’s not just IU it all over the country and they are having to much influence over your Kids!  Most of them are left wing nuts that couldn’t get a job in the real world!  There.  I’ve said my peace on this topic.  Very surprised it was left on the board because it’s 100% political no matter how one wants to dance around it.

 

 

I think I can offer an opinion that is completely non-political!

Here is a completely non-political take:

There are so many universities that have handled these protests well and have done so with very different approaches, yet they were approaches that de-escalated and have worked really well:

For instance, Brown University reached out to protesters and faculty early and made them feel valued and heard. The result? A very effective outcome at Brown during a difficult time.

The University of Florida had pretty strict rules already in place and enforced them without exception immediately. The result? A very effective outcome at UF during a difficult time.

Indiana University leadership’s planning and strategy did not produce an effective outcome.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,324]

13 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I think I can offer an opinion that is completely non-political!

Here is a completely non-political take:

There are so many universities that have handled these protests well and have done so with very different approaches, yet they were approaches that de-escalated and have worked really well:

For instance, Brown University reached out to protesters and faculty early and made them feel valued and heard. The result? A very effective outcome at Brown during a difficult time.

The University of Florida had pretty strict rules already in place and enforced them without exception immediately. The result? A very effective outcome at UF during a difficult time.

Indiana University leadership’s planning and strategy did not produce an effective outcome.

But was Indianas as bad as UCLA or Columbia? It's one of those things you can't sit on the fence with as an administration. Either get at it early or it's going to get out of hand.

[Stuhoo 90,795]

13 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

But was Indianas as bad as UCLA or Columbia? It's one of those things you can't sit on the fence with as an administration. Either get at it early or it's going to get out of hand.

IU has been not as bad as a few places, but quite a bit worse than most.

And allow me to amend your second sentence, which is already on point:

It’s not enough to “get at it early.” Excellent leadership predicts problems and drastically reduces the likelihood of problems ever happening.

[Banksyrules 5,344]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Of course!

I think “a lot” is an inaccurate broad brush.

Some? Okay sure. But when there are so many different motivations for so many different people that is only natural.

Also (IMO) something that is only natural: The media (broadly), which has a job to do that includes providing “interesting” content, will inevitably spend more bandwidth covering the most salacious moments by protesters, counter-protesters, administration, and law enforcement. 

Well my brother knows the students and organizers they reached out to for advice to set Columbia in motion.  Pretty much all the universities students have reached out to Columbia for advice from there. Until now a lot of these have been organized by Jewish organizations.  These events are not a Jewish hate thing. It's a Israeli GOVERNMENT protest. If you need an objective Jewish journalist to clarify the scope I would suggest Katie Halper.   If you need a Jewish activist that can provide deep context and history of what's happening I would suggest Norman Finkelstein. I've met Mr. Finkelstein and he's actually quite a sweet guy who cares deeply about educating everyone about the big scope of the situation we're dealing with.    There's a lot of hard truths to deal in this situation. Layers upon layers. 

However- Just these past few days I'm hearing some things that might altar these protests to the point where the organizations are wondering if it's necessary to stop right now.  I'm being vague here because it's early information and it needs more digging by people who are way smarter than I.  

[Stuhoo 90,795]

11 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

Well my brother knows the students and organizers they reached out to for advice to set Columbia in motion.  Pretty much all the universities students have reached out to Columbia for advice from there. Until now a lot of these have been organized by Jewish organizations.  These events are not a Jewish hate thing. It's a Israeli GOVERNMENT protest. If you need an objective Jewish journalist to clarify the scope I would suggest Katie Halper.   If you need a Jewish activist that can provide deep context and history of what's happening I would suggest Norman Finkelstein. I've met Mr. Finkelstein and he's actually quite a sweet guy who cares deeply about educating everyone about the big scope of the situation we're dealing with.    There's a lot of hard truths to deal in this situation. Layers upon layers. 

However- Just these past few days I'm hearing some things that might altar these protests to the point where the organizations are wondering if it's necessary to stop right now.  I'm being vague here because it's early information and it needs more digging by people who are way smarter than I.  

Again, the motivations of some initial organizers has not been congruent with the manifested actions.

 

[Banksyrules 5,344]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

Again, the motivations of some initial organizers has not been congruent with the manifested actions.

 

I'm not going to judge I promise. What specific manifested actions do you disagree with.  

[Stuhoo 90,795]

44 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

I'm not going to judge I promise. What specific manifested actions do you disagree with.  

I’m not the least bit worried about being judged. Nothing I have stated is an especially hot take

Hamas headscarfs. Property destruction. Preventing non-participants from access to public areas. Takeover of property. Antisemitism. Failure to adhere to long-established campus rules.

And to those who protest peacefully and without violating the law? Those are the people and values that our heroes fought and died for.

I am also fully confident that this too shall pass, but there will be plenty of suffering along the way. I believe I am old enough to fully grasp that context.

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

I’m wondering if, as some have suggested, it’s an oppressor v oppressed type deal why there hasn’t been an outrage against the PRC v the Uighur people where there is an actual genocide taking place.

Is it too much to ask to free the hostages while asking to free Palestine?

Is it appropriate that we ask for Palestine to be freed from Hamas who doesn’t give a damn about the Palestinian people and who has probably killed a massive number of Palestinians over the years?

Let’s call for a ceasefire and pump a ton of aid into Gaza so Hamas can eat while others starve and their “leaders” can continue to get fat in Qatar.

I’m all for a two state solution. However, somethings around the region needs to be cleaned up first.

[Home Jersey 16,789]

20 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I’m not the least bit worried about being judged. Nothing I have stated is an especially hot take

Hamas headscarfs. Property destruction. Preventing non-participants from access to public areas. Takeover of property. Antisemitism. Failure to adhere to long-established campus rules.

And to those who protest peacefully and without violating the law? Those are the people and values that our heroes fought and died for.

I am also fully confident that this too shall pass, but there will be plenty of suffering along the way. I believe I am old enough to fully grasp that context.

Not going to debate anything... simply noting the "Hamas headscarf" you're referring to is literally something that's worn in arid climates for centuries by Arabs, Kurds, Yazidi, Iraqis, Turks, etc. to protect them from the sun and sand. It's got way more of a cultural meaning to people from the Middle East than the Palestinian identity it's been adopted by since the 60s. You could see any Middle Eastern person walking down the street wearing one and it means absolutely nothing about what they think about Jewish people or Israel. 

[Stuhoo 90,795]

9 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Not going to debate anything... simply noting the "Hamas headscarf" you're referring to is literally something that's worn in arid climates for centuries by Arabs, Kurds, Yazidi, Iraqis, Turks, etc. to protect them from the sun and sand. It's got way more of a cultural meaning to people from the Middle East than the Palestinian identity it's been adopted by since the 60s. You could see any Middle Eastern person walking down the street wearing one and it means absolutely nothing about what they think about Jewish people or Israel. 

I believe you misunderstood my point—I meant what I said. Not the black and white checkered keffeyeh; the green Hamas battle scarf. On campuses. Including at IU.

[Home Jersey 16,789]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I believe you misunderstood my point. Not the keffeyeh; the green Hamas battle scarf. On campuses. Including at IU.

I also saw a sniper on campus at IU lol. Anyhow I'll go back to lurking 

[HoosierHoopster 8,860]

Whitten changed the long-established rules literally overnight by setting up her own little committee and disregarding the “rules” of the University, as she has been and continues to do, which is why the calls for her ouster by now many hundreds of professors have grown and grown. The IU / administrative handling of the protests / tents is an embarrassment, grossly overreactionary and stupid.

Take a minute out, put aside your own biases whatever they are, and read up on how Brown just resolved their student protests, through sit down discussions, negotiations, resulting in the students’ voluntary and timely removal of the tents etc. That is how a university should act, period. Meanwhile IU makes national news for multiple arrests, banning kids from campus, avoiding dialogue, actual snipers on roof? You want rules? Read what the rules were that Whitten changed overnight. She’s terrible, and the logical ending of her fiasco is her resignation within the year. 

[Stuhoo 90,795]

3 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I also saw a sniper on campus at IU lol. Anyhow I'll go back to lurking 

What law did that sniper violate? What genocide did that sniper advocate? What free speech or right to assembly did that sniper prevent? What policy did that sniper violate?

[Stuhoo 90,795]

Just now, HoosierHoopster said:

Whitten changed the long-established rules literally overnight by setting up her own little committee and disregarding the “rules” of the University, as she has been and continues to do, which is why the calls for her ouster by now many hundreds of professors have grown and grown. The IU / administrative handling of the protests / tents is an embarrassment, grossly overreactionary and stupid.

Take a minute out, put aside your own biases whatever they are, and read up on how Brown just resolved their student protests, through sit down discussions, negotiations, resulting in the students’ voluntary and timely removal of the tents etc. That is how a university should act, period. Meanwhile IU makes national news for multiple arrests, banning kids from campus, avoiding dialogue, actual snipers on roof? You want rules? Read what the rules were that Whitten changed overnight. She’s terrible, and the logical ending of her fiasco is het resignation within the year. 

This is an incredibly on point post. Brown; U Florida, so, so, so many universities that could have been powder kegs just flat out are not.

That is a leadership issue at IU, at UCLA, at Columbia.

Know your community. Be inquisitive and communicate, pay forward before the **** hits the fan, and don’t change the rules and escalate once it does.

[IUCrazy2 2,980]

3 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Whitten changed the long-established rules literally overnight by setting up her own little committee and disregarding the “rules” of the University, as she has been and continues to do, which is why the calls for her ouster by now many hundreds of professors have grown and grown. The IU / administrative handling of the protests / tents is an embarrassment, grossly overreactionary and stupid.

Take a minute out, put aside your own biases whatever they are, and read up on how Brown just resolved their student protests, through sit down discussions, negotiations, resulting in the students’ voluntary and timely removal of the tents etc. That is how a university should act, period. Meanwhile IU makes national news for multiple arrests, banning kids from campus, avoiding dialogue, actual snipers on roof? You want rules? Read what the rules were that Whitten changed overnight. She’s terrible, and the logical ending of her fiasco is het resignation within the year. 

Nothing to negotiate over.  The school shouldn't divest because a fraction of a percent of twatty students on campus were throwing a fit.

Whitten was right to do what she did.  There are a whole host of dumbass professors that should be out the door before Pam. 

[Stuhoo 90,795]

6 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

What law did that sniper violate? What genocide did that sniper advocate? What free speech or right to assembly did that sniper prevent? What policy did that sniper violate?

You may find that funny, but the sniper was terrible for a completely different reason; it escalated and sent an extraordinarily adversarial message.

It’s not the same as a Hamas battle flag scarf.

One thing is unnecessarily counterproductive. The other is the promotion of an international terror organization.

 

[IUCrazy2 2,980]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

This is an incredibly on point post. Brown; U Florida, so, so, so many universities that could have been powder kegs just flat out are not.

That is a leadership issue at IU, at UCLA, at Columbia.

Know your community. Be inquisitive and communicate, pay forward before the **** hits the fan, and don’t change the rules and escalate once it does.

Some people got arrested at Indiana.  Putting them in the same category as Columbia and UCLA is a huge stretch.

[Stuhoo 90,795]

3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Some people got arrested at Indiana.  Putting them in the same category as Columbia and UCLA is a huge stretch.

Oh I agree! But seeing the above the norm 2024 campus amount of drama at IU? It could have been largely avoided.

Maybe the easiest way to have de-escalated? Students were off campus by May 2nd. They could have gotten concessions in exchange for negotiations and stalled until then. The starch will likely be out of these protests by the time there’s a 12 week summer separation from Bloomington.