President Whitten - 2024 Faculty No Vote

[Josh 12,402]

5 hours ago, cthomas said:

There is a growing discussion taking place concerning the purpose of education. One side wants it to be an activist agent for social change. The other wants it to be an apolitical entity that gives students the tools to succeed in life. The book "The Queering of the American Child" by Logan Lansing and James Lindsey does a pretty good job of showing how we got, although it primarily addresses what is happening in elementary and secondary schools. The balance between academic freedom and censorship is a tricky one. As a lifelong resident of Indiana, it's not difficult for me to predict where the legislature is going fall on any given issue. 

Both sides think they're being apolitical and think the other is trying to be activist.

As a guy who sits in the middle I think you're both Loony Tunes.  I just see massive discontent with a person and realize it's toxic.  Then the far extremes on both sides cry victim and persecution.  It's kind of comical to me

[RaceToTheTop 24,271]

5 hours ago, cthomas said:

There is a growing discussion taking place concerning the purpose of education. One side wants it to be an activist agent for social change. The other wants it to be an apolitical entity that gives students the tools to succeed in life. The book "The Queering of the American Child" by Logan Lansing and James Lindsey does a pretty good job of showing how we got, although it primarily addresses what is happening in elementary and secondary schools. The balance between academic freedom and censorship is a tricky one. As a lifelong resident of Indiana, it's not difficult for me to predict where the legislature is going fall on any given issue. 

 I notice you left out the whole title of the book which is "The Queering of the American Child:  How a New School Religious Cult Poisins the Minds and Bodies of Normal Kids" whose authors self describe themselves as 'anti-woke'.  If that's apolitical, then everything is.

[BtownStrength 1,016]

6 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

That’s just it. Her boss is the BOT.  And as Cthomas points out things are changing at the college level.  The public isn’t going to continue to fund a lot of BS.  

Which BS specifically does the public not wish to fund? 

[cthomas 5,961]

43 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

 I notice you left out the whole title of the book which is "The Queering of the American Child:  How a New School Religious Cult Poisins the Minds and Bodies of Normal Kids" whose authors self describe themselves as 'anti-woke'.  If that's apolitical, then everything is.

I didn't say that the book was apolitical. I said it describes the path that led us to this point in the educational debate. There is a lot that is over the top in it and a lot that I don't necessarily agree with, but I learned a great deal that helps me understand the reason parent groups are upset with the content in their children's classrooms. I was a teacher a very long time ago so I have some interest in the debate. As others have said, this is complicated and, in today's world, people seem to prefer confrontation to communication and compromise.

[Stuhoo 76,660]

Not locking the thread yet, but it’s starting to wobble juuuust a bit!

Admittedly it’s a tough task to have threads like this on a message board that is explicitly no politics.

But hey, it’s still kinda okay in this thread so far. Kinda.

[RaceToTheTop 24,271]

1 minute ago, cthomas said:

I didn't say that the book was apolitical. I said it describes the path that led us to this point in the educational debate. There is a lot that is over the top in it and a lot that I don't necessarily agree with, but I learned a great deal that helps me understand the reason parent groups are upset with the content in their children's classrooms. I was a teacher a very long time ago so I have some interest in the debate. As others have said, this is complicated and, in today's world, people seem to prefer confrontation to communication and compromise.

Thanks for the response.  I have been a teacher for 30+ years.  While I have seen some thing that parents have reason to complete about, the fictional narrative that is being created about what is actually going on in schools is nowhere near the narrative — most definitely not in rural Indiana.

[Banksyrules 4,306]

1 hour ago, cthomas said:

I didn't say that the book was apolitical. I said it describes the path that led us to this point in the educational debate. There is a lot that is over the top in it and a lot that I don't necessarily agree with, but I learned a great deal that helps me understand the reason parent groups are upset with the content in their children's classrooms. I was a teacher a very long time ago so I have some interest in the debate. As others have said, this is complicated and, in today's world, people seem to prefer confrontation to communication and compromise.

I just don't think the teachers have that type of time to mold anything.Seriously overworked and underpaid position.  Just imagine taking care of 20 kids at the very least.  That's madness. My niece exhausts me after a couple of hours.  

[rcbowla 6,796]

A congressman, a special interest donor and myself are in a room. I want my civil liberties protected and the donor wants to kill me. The congressman turns their head while the donor shoots me in the face. As an independent I will never understand why people fight each other over ideologies that were created, in large part, by people that couldn't care less about you or I. Politics have become so tribal that people argue over things to the point where there's disdain for one another when in reality those people probably agree on about 90% of things that actually matter. If we focused on that 90% we would all be much better off because there will never be common ground on the polarizing topics. I miss the days when most people didn't want to share their political views nor care what others' were. This has nothing to do with the topic and sorry for that but I feel better having typed this out lol.

[Golfman25 4,831]

1 hour ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Thanks for the response.  I have been a teacher for 30+ years.  While I have seen some thing that parents have reason to complete about, the fictional narrative that is being created about what is actually going on in schools is nowhere near the narrative — most definitely not in rural Indiana.

Yet.  I have friends who are teachers.  Suburban districts.  They see it starting.  They are racing to retirement.  

[Golfman25 4,831]

3 minutes ago, rcbowla said:

A congressman, a special interest donor and myself are in a room. I want my civil liberties protected and the donor wants to kill me. The congressman turns their head while the donor shoots me in the face. As an independent I will never understand why people fight each other over ideologies that were created, in large part, by people that couldn't care less about you or I. Politics have become so tribal that people argue over things to the point where there's disdain for one another when in reality those people probably agree on about 90% of things that actually matter. If we focused on that 90% we would all be much better off because there will never be common ground on the polarizing topics. I miss the days when most people didn't want to share their political views nor care what others' were. This has nothing to do with the topic and sorry for that but I feel better having typed this out lol.

Obviously this is all delving into politics.  But suffice it to say, traditional liberalism is giving way to leftist ideology.  One you can have a beer with, the other, not so much.  

[RaceToTheTop 24,271]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

Yet.  I have friends who are teachers.  Suburban districts.  They see it starting.  They are racing to retirement.  

According to your posts, they should get out then because if they want to air their disagreements, they are ‘throwing a hissy fit’ and ‘don’t let the door hit you on their way out’.

My opinion is they should make their differences known.  

[Golfman25 4,831]

1 hour ago, BtownStrength said:

Which BS specifically does the public not wish to fund? 

Not wanting to tread into politics, suffice it to say that which is beyond the reasoned academic exploration.  Once you start getting into hatred for America, taxpayers tend to react negatively.  

[Banksyrules 4,306]

Just now, Golfman25 said:

Not wanting to tread into politics, suffice it to say that which is beyond the reasoned academic exploration.  Once you start getting into hatred for America, taxpayers tend to react negatively.  

Out of curiosity what do you define as hatred?  I'm curious because I wonder if people have become so "it's either this or else" mode that there really is no chance to improve (with infrastructure or health etc). 

[BtownStrength 1,016]

6 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Not wanting to tread into politics, suffice it to say that which is beyond the reasoned academic exploration.  Once you start getting into hatred for America, taxpayers tend to react negatively.  

Appreciate the response. As with Banksy above, I would also be interested what you have to say constitutes hatred for America in the education system. I do realize it would be impossible to avoid a more in-depth sociopolitical conversation with this though. 

[Golfman25 4,831]

6 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

Out of curiosity what do you define as hatred?  I'm curious because I wonder if people have become so "it's either this or else" mode that there really is no chance to improve (with infrastructure or health etc). 

Rejection of the founding principles.  For example, thinking that the USA is fundamentally "oppressive."  Don't want the thread locked, so I'll stop there. 

[Banksyrules 4,306]

34 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Rejection of the founding principles.  For example, thinking that the USA is fundamentally "oppressive."  Don't want the thread locked, so I'll stop there. 

I understand your perspective. I think a lot of us honed into positions with no wiggle room. You know I'm very fortunate that I got to live many lives (poor/ wealthy, east coast/midwest  friends with so called "Liberal and conservative (god I hate lables) belief systems. " Through that I came to the opinion ( and know my thoughts are always adjustable) is that most policies or issues don't have definitive absolutes. Like the human individual there are layers to policies .  

I agree with you that we created a system which on the surface gives us and opportunity to change outcomes in policy if the majority so chooses. However I also believe that there are a lot of deep layered obstacles that hinder the opportunity to make very necessary changes that would benefit the whole population.  Layers upon layers. Again just my opinion. I appreciate you being honest. 

[Golfman25 4,831]

1 hour ago, Banksyrules said:

I understand your perspective. I think a lot of us honed into positions with no wiggle room. You know I'm very fortunate that I got to live many lives (poor/ wealthy, east coast/midwest  friends with so called "Liberal and conservative (god I hate lables) belief systems. " Through that I came to the opinion ( and know my thoughts are always adjustable) is that most policies or issues don't have definitive absolutes. Like the human individual there are layers to policies .  

I agree with you that we created a system which on the surface gives us and opportunity to change outcomes in policy if the majority so chooses. However I also believe that there are a lot of deep layered obstacles that hinder the opportunity to make very necessary changes that would benefit the whole population.  Layers upon layers. Again just my opinion. I appreciate you being honest. 

Not the way it was supposed to work.  The US Constitution is a minority position protection document.  It restrains the government and the majority.  That is what makes certain people upset -- if the majority want to ________ (insert issue here) then to them it should be, because we have the majority.  But that' is not the way it was designed to work, although it's been bastardized over the past 200+ years.  And that is how you get to where we are today.   

[AKHoosier 6,610]

4 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Thanks for the response.  I have been a teacher for 30+ years.  While I have seen some thing that parents have reason to complete about, the fictional narrative that is being created about what is actually going on in schools is nowhere near the narrative — most definitely not in rural Indiana.

Yeah that's ridiculous. 

You can't claim to have a firm grasp on every rural district in Indiana, or anywhere. You can only speak to your experience. 

I've had a kid in daycare for about a year now, and have already had to fight battles regarding some of the extreme curriculum and "values" taught to kids who are barely walking. Stuff that would be downright shocking to anyone with a pulse even 10 years ago. 

Trust me. If it's happening here, it's happening everywhere. 

[RaceToTheTop 24,271]

7 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

Yeah that's ridiculous. 

You can't claim to have a firm grasp on every rural district in Indiana, or anywhere. You can only speak to your experience. 

I've had a kid in daycare for about a year now, and have already had to fight battles regarding some of the extreme curriculum and "values" taught to kids who are barely walking. Stuff that would be downright shocking to anyone with a pulse even 10 years ago. 

Trust me. If it's happening here, it's happening everywhere. 

I am speaking to my experience, but I'm not just speaking of my district.  I am speaking of districts that I am familiar with -- schools in my area.  

I can't speak to what your child is learning in daycare (which wouldn't be a public school anyway unless it's a different circumstance).  So what are the extreme curriculum 'values' being taught?  While you downplay my experiences, I have to say that when you say 'it's happening everywhere' comes off as pretty extreme.  How do you know it's happening everywhere -- not that I even know what you referring to as 'it' yet?

[Banksyrules 4,306]

15 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

Yeah that's ridiculous. 

You can't claim to have a firm grasp on every rural district in Indiana, or anywhere. You can only speak to your experience. 

I've had a kid in daycare for about a year now, and have already had to fight battles regarding some of the extreme curriculum and "values" taught to kids who are barely walking. Stuff that would be downright shocking to anyone with a pulse even 10 years ago. 

Trust me. If it's happening here, it's happening everywhere. 

Can u state what they are? U can DM if you feel comfortable. I won’t judge.