Soon to RETIRE Coach Woodson Thread

[Golfman25 6,019]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Top 5 in an 18 team P5 conference? That would mean we are also a top 25 team and a pretty high NCAA seed. Probably equates to a conference record of 14-6 or 13-7.

How do you get there from here?  Of the top 5 in this year's Big10 only two ended up top 25 -- Purdont and Ill.  Wis was on the bubble.  None of the teams joining were ranked.  

[Golfman25 6,019]

3 hours ago, Dhop said:

Man, I would have loved to seen this board in play through the RMK era.  Missing some tournaments, losing to Cleveland State, Richmond… Some awesome highs, and some crazy lows.

I’m in for another year of Woody.  Hoping he does great, he has the pieces in place.  next year will be the real example of the new era college (semi-pro) ball for ALL teams with eternal free agency and $$ now fully taking over.  If next year goes poorly it’s time for everyone to really evaluate who can coach in the new CBB world with new rosters every year.

 

Yeah but you have to sandwich that 87 National Championship in between Cleveland State and Richmond.  Takes away a lot of the sting.  :)  

[Golfman25 6,019]

2 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

This is what's been so frustrating because you and I and a lot of others really aren't that far apart in our views.  I don't consider myself a sunshine pumper.  I was hoping he'd be replaced and said so numerous times and his arrogance and his comments at senior night did absolutely nothing to endear him to me.  But I want the team to do well and indirectly that means I have to hope that Woody does well as the team's coach.  Absolutely no idea if he can but I've accepted that he's our coach for the 24-25 season.  He and the staff have done a remarkable job in the portal but the real question remains is what can Woody do with that talent.  Hey, I'm in that same group that have a big question mark in my mind.  I would just like for many others to accept the fact that he is our coach and not find it necessary to bring the negativism into virtually every thread we have.   

Sure, but wondering if Woody can pull it all together and win big with these guys isn't "negative" as much as it is realism.  We have 3 years of experience to gage from.  And while past performance is no guarantee of future performance (which is a good thing here) it is relevant. 

My prediction is Woodson is going to go back to what he wants to work and try to force it -- i.e.; his version of inside out with 2 bigs, weak 3 point defense, hockey lineups, etc.  However, he'll be quicker to pull the trigger and make the changes he did the past 2 years -- find what will work best with this group.  We won't be looking at a Feb. of "must win" games to make the tournament (hopefully).  

[Stuhoo 83,881]

22 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

How do you get there from here?  Of the top 5 in this year's Big10 only two ended up top 25 -- Purdont and Ill.  Wis was on the bubble.  None of the teams joining were ranked.  

Last year was a true outlier for the B1G, which usually has three of four ranked.

Add four more respectable quality teams which brings the conference up to 18, and top five ranked of 18 is reasonably likely

Maybe not, but probably.

[steubenhoosier 1,290]

My opinion only 

- Woodson did not win with “Archie’s players.” Several of the players, especially TJD and Race, were headed elsewhere. Woodson had to re-recruit those guys and sell them on what he could do to advance their games. At the point they agreed to come back, they became Woodson’s players.

- The whole “real fans” and “chill” comments have been overblown by some butthurt folks just looking for a reason to be butthurt. My gosh, grow a pair. RMK was much more condescending at times with some of his comments and actions towards fans he felt weren’t as knowledgeable or weren’t buying in. Time to let it go.

- This year is make or break for Woodson. Expectations should be high. However quantifying what that means in regards to records, seeding, tournament results, is a guessing game now. 8-10 games into the season should provide a much better indication of whether Woodson has this team on track for where we all want them to go.

- This is the fire Woodson thread, and I respect the opinions of those who want him gone. I am willing to see what this season brings before deciding either way 

[8bucks 6,675]

29 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

We could start with failing to recruit to the roster needs for last season... throwing the players under the bus in post-game pressers... needing to be told to go watch a recruit play in his sectional... alienating half of the fan base by calling then "not true fans" in his Senior Day comments... telling the world that he's "done his job" while failing to make the tournament... 

I'd have to agree with @Hoosierfan2017 - as far as I am concerned, he's spot on with his assessment of Woodson's deficiencies as Indiana's head coach.

Appreciate the feedback. 
 

Was not a fan of the presser comments re his players but when all the key players stayed as they did last year I have to think that demonstrates he still earns players loyalties when we don’t see it.

We know that he was told to go watch a HS recruit?  I did not like him skipping the sectional games or sending staff. Have not understood his recruiting strategy overall but i honestly think it has changed since he started. I prefer a team with HS kids that develop over time and maybe you blend in some portal kids. However, NIL and the portal have changed things. In the end results matter. He built this team and is responsible for bringing a strong season. 
 

The senior day stuff was stupid.  I won’t argue with you on that. If he wins he can do stupid stuff. Winning as he defined it is winning big ten and national championships. He can’t do that every year but he needs much better than what we have seen. 

[Hornsby 2,846]

Appreciate the feedback. 
 
Was not a fan of the presser comments re his players but when all the key players stayed as they did last year I have to think that demonstrates he still earns players loyalties when we don’t see it.
We know that he was told to go watch a HS recruit?  I did not like him skipping the sectional games or sending staff. Have not understood his recruiting strategy overall but i honestly think it has changed since he started. I prefer a team with HS kids that develop over time and maybe you blend in some portal kids. However, NIL and the portal have changed things. In the end results matter. He built this team and is responsible for bringing a strong season. 
 
The senior day stuff was stupid.  I won’t argue with you on that. If he wins he can do stupid stuff. Winning as he defined it is winning big ten and national championships. He can’t do that every year but he needs much better than what we have seen. 

If he wins big ten titles he do do whatever i dont care . But until then I'm not going to declare him great cause he had a good portal.

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[8bucks 6,675]

11 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

If he wins big ten titles he do do whatever i dont care . But until then I'm not going to declare him great cause he had a good portal.

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
 

Has anyone declared him great?  He had a great portal haul, and that is certainly part of having success in the fall but on court results will trump all else 

 

[cthomas 6,534]

Let me start by saying that I don't like the portal as a way to build a team. As much as I hate them, I like the way Purdue goes about it. I think continuity matters. That's why Painter's teams are so good in November and December. Guys playing together multiple years is a good thing. We will be well into the season before these new guys are fully integrated into what we want to do. They will be learning a system instead of getting better at executing it. So I expect, at least early on, that we will be less than the some of our parts. Hopefully, it comes together soon enough for us to have a great year. If not, there will be even more angry people around here.

[Hornsby 2,846]

Has anyone declared him great?  He had a great portal haul, and that is certainly part of having success in the fall but on court results will trump all else 
 

Exactly. Some not on here but other places have acted like we should declare complete success. But I saw 9 years of crean talent helps but doesn't mean much until you see it on the court. I used to think different but offseason stuff no longer hypes me up. In reality kentucky should expect a final four every year based on talent but can't even get out of the first round anymore. Though I did get hyped up tjd last year and they underachieved.

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[bigrod 2,915]

11 hours ago, steubenhoosier said:

My opinion only 

- Woodson did not win with “Archie’s players.” Several of the players, especially TJD and Race, were headed elsewhere. Woodson had to re-recruit those guys and sell them on what he could do to advance their games. At the point they agreed to come back, they became Woodson’s players.

- The whole “real fans” and “chill” comments have been overblown by some butthurt folks just looking for a reason to be butthurt. My gosh, grow a pair. RMK was much more condescending at times with some of his comments and actions towards fans he felt weren’t as knowledgeable or weren’t buying in. Time to let it go.

- This year is make or break for Woodson. Expectations should be high. However quantifying what that means in regards to records, seeding, tournament results, is a guessing game now. 8-10 games into the season should provide a much better indication of whether Woodson has this team on track for where we all want them to go.

- This is the fire Woodson thread, and I respect the opinions of those who want him gone. I am willing to see what this season brings before deciding either way 

In my opinion, it's hard to accept any comparison of Woodson and RMK. They are totally different in approach and results. Knight could be condescending, but I rarely felt it was directed at the fans. And, it was after tons of success.

I also don't think the comments directed at the fans have been overblown. It's part of his MO. Instead of owning up to the disappointing season, his best course of action was to blame the fans for having expectations. By his own stated expectations of hanging another banner and winning conference championships, his team vastly underachieved. He took no responsibility (recurring theme). I think that is many fans' issue with Woodson. When things are going well, he takes full credit. But when the going gets tough, he starts pointing fingers (or gets himself an early exit).

He could have gotten much more grace with many fans by just saying the season didn't meet his expectations and he was going to make sure it didn't happen again. Instead, he announced that he was doing his job and anyone who thought differently was wrong.

[steubenhoosier 1,290]

2 minutes ago, bigrod said:

In my opinion, it's hard to accept any comparison of Woodson and RMK. They are totally different in approach and results. Knight could be condescending, but I rarely felt it was directed at the fans. And, it was after tons of success.

I also don't think the comments directed at the fans have been overblown. It's part of his MO. Instead of owning up to the disappointing season, his best course of action was to blame the fans for having expectations. By his own stated expectations of hanging another banner and winning conference championships, his team vastly underachieved. He took no responsibility (recurring theme). I think that is many fans' issue with Woodson. When things are going well, he takes full credit. But when the going gets tough, he starts pointing fingers (or gets himself an early exit).

He could have gotten much more grace with many fans by just saying the season didn't meet his expectations and he was going to make sure it didn't happen again. Instead, he announced that he was doing his job and anyone who thought differently was wrong.

I agree that RMK had built the cache to warrant folks overlooking his abrasiveness, and Woodson has yet to do so. Also agree that at the time, Woodson’s Senior Night comments came across wrong.

However, those comments were made 6 weeks ago, and it’s time to let them go. No one was personally hurt by his words, but it sure seems like some folks are hanging onto them as if they were.

[AZ Hoosier 8,582]

24 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

I agree that RMK had built the cache to warrant folks overlooking his abrasiveness, and Woodson has yet to do so. Also agree that at the time, Woodson’s Senior Night comments came across wrong.

However, those comments were made 6 weeks ago, and it’s time to let them go. No one was personally hurt by his words, but it sure seems like some folks are hanging onto them as if they were.

The thing is, I was watching, following, rooting for and supporting ($$) Indiana for over 50 years - long before Mike Woodson came along as a player. Telling me that I was not a "true fan" after a season full of his crappy coaching and snide remarks because I was not elated that he was still in charge is a slap in the face. Yeah, I'm a grown man, some would even call me an "old codger", and tell me that I should not be bothered by his comments. And understand, it wasn't the comments as much as the pure arrogance with which they were delivered. 

They say "it ain't braggin' if you can back it up"... but Woodson hasn't backed anything up yet... he's just displayed a constant stream of laziness, arrogance and bluster.

[Trish 12,240]

As one of the founding fathers of the Fire Woodson agenda here, I will give credit where it’s due. The NIL support has kept Indiana afloat this offseason and has lessened the fire under Woodson’s chair.

 

This team on paper is Sweet 16 or bust. I could care less about Big Ten regular season or championship, it’s all about what happens in the real tournament. If he fails to make it to the Sweet 16, it’s a massive failure. There’s enough talent on this team to make it to the second weekend, we’ll see if Woodson can coach. 

[Shooter 505]

13 hours ago, steubenhoosier said:

My opinion only 

- Woodson did not win with “Archie’s players.” Several of the players, especially TJD and Race, were headed elsewhere. Woodson had to re-recruit those guys and sell them on what he could do to advance their games. At the point they agreed to come back, they became Woodson’s players.

- The whole “real fans” and “chill” comments have been overblown by some butthurt folks just looking for a reason to be butthurt. My gosh, grow a pair. RMK was much more condescending at times with some of his comments and actions towards fans he felt weren’t as knowledgeable or weren’t buying in. Time to let it go.

- This year is make or break for Woodson. Expectations should be high. However quantifying what that means in regards to records, seeding, tournament results, is a guessing game now. 8-10 games into the season should provide a much better indication of whether Woodson has this team on track for where we all want them to go.

- This is the fire Woodson thread, and I respect the opinions of those who want him gone. I am willing to see what this season brings before deciding either way 

To your second point, I would suggest Woodson is the one who needed to "grow a pair". His team was playing awful for months - sitting at 6-10 in a down Big Ten, barely beating cupcakes in Assembly Hall,  outside the top 100 in Kenpom. All of that is completely unacceptable at IU, and Woodson should know that. Yet he was the one who got "butthurt" and lashed out because fans and media dared to question him.

All that said, he and staff have done a really nice job building a roster this offseason, and I'll be back in the Hall cheering on the Hoosiers again this winter. Just won't be cheering quite as loud for Woodson in particular.

[IUFAN1976 4,150]

50 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

The thing is, I was watching, following, rooting for and supporting ($$) Indiana for over 50 years - long before Mike Woodson came along as a player. Telling me that I was not a "true fan" after a season full of his crappy coaching and snide remarks because I was not elated that he was still in charge is a slap in the face. Yeah, I'm a grown man, some would even call me an "old codger", and tell me that I should not be bothered by his comments. And understand, it wasn't the comments as much as the pure arrogance with which they were delivered. 

They say "it ain't braggin' if you can back it up"... but Woodson hasn't backed anything up yet... he's just displayed a constant stream of laziness, arrogance and bluster.

Well said!  This is exactly how I feel and I started watching IU before MW was a player too, but please don’t put me in the “old codger” category just yet.  

With this fully bought roster, it’s time for MW to put on his big boy pants and coach this team.  There are no excuses this year 

[Hoosier DaDa 3,225]

19 hours ago, Dhop said:

Man, I would have loved to seen this board in play through the RMK era.  Missing some tournaments, losing to Cleveland State, Richmond… Some awesome highs, and some crazy lows.

I’m in for another year of Woody.  Hoping he does great, he has the pieces in place.  next year will be the real example of the new era college (semi-pro) ball for ALL teams with eternal free agency and $$ now fully taking over.  If next year goes poorly it’s time for everyone to really evaluate who can coach in the new CBB world with new rosters every year.

 

The point about a new team every year. Archie is going to have to find a better excuse since takes players 100 years to learn his pack line defense. Did anyone learn his defense during the 4 years he was here? 

[Juwan Moye 401]

5 minutes ago, Hoosier DaDa said:

The point about a new team every year. Archie is going to have to find a better excuse since takes players 100 years to learn his pack line defense. Did anyone learn his defense during the 4 years he was here? 

To be fair, that may be the same issue with Woodsons defense as well. It’s absolutely something I’m worried about, especially our ability to defend the 3.

Early in the season, all teams has to do was take a dribble towards the nail defender then make the easy pass to the wing for a wide open 3.

[Hoosier DaDa 3,225]

18 hours ago, IUGRAD06 said:

Posted this in the other thread:

 

”

I will say this.  We have the largest budget and sounds like we have used a crap ton of it if the numbers are true.  We should have the most talent of any Big Ten team also.  Composite 247 and 247 rankings 

Tucker- 5 star

Ballo - 5 star 

Mgbako - 5 star

Reneau - 4 star 

Rice - 4 star

Goode - 4 star

Carlyle - 4 star

Cupps - 4 star

Newton - 4 star

Galloway - 4 star

Leal - 4 star 

If we don’t win the Big Ten with all that talent and make at least an elite 8 what’s he ever going to do?  What Big Ten team has that level of ranking talent? I will save you, none.  Michigan State has one five star and 3 and 4 stars.  Purdue has 4 and 3 stars.  They aren’t spending the money we are.  ”

 

He needs to win the Big and make a deep tourney run.  If he doesn’t he will never do much.  He is spending the most money and has the most talent stats wise.  Crean never had this level of talent and won it.  Also Creans Big Ten was way more difficult.  

And Edey is gone the B1G is wide open.

[Hoosier DaDa 3,225]

17 hours ago, 8bucks said:

How do you know what goes on behind the scenes?  Just curious what you are using in order to make these conclusions?  

We see enough what happens in the wide open don’t need to know what happens behind closed doors to form opinion.