Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[AZ Hoosier 6,571]

17 hours ago, AH1971 said:

I didn't feel like typing this last night, but I don't have a busy day today and figure I'd share an encounter I had a few weeks ago with someone who I feel is qualified to say what they had to say.

So a few weeks ago I ran into Mike Berghoff at a Pacers game. For those who don't know, Mike is head of the Board of Trustees at Purdue. Mike and I go way back. Lived in the same neighborhood for many years and attended the same parish/school where some of our kids ran in the same circles. Hadn't seen him in awhile but small talk quickly turned into a conversation about IU/PU and the direction of both programs. After about 30 seconds of rambling on about Woodson he politely cut me off and said this:

"The problem isn't Woodson, look at your leadership. Look at who has been running your athletic department the last 10-15 years. Fred Glass? He's a lawyer. Scott Dolson? He's a fundraising guy. Who qualifications do either of those guys have in evaluating and conducting a coaching search?"

Of course I couldn't disagree with him and he went even further. Went on tell me that after being appointed chairman, his first big athletic task was naming a successor to Morgan Burke who had just announced his retirement. He said he along with the rest of the board, Mitch Daniels, and a small advisory group consisting of former Purdue athletes identified 5-6 candidates. He said the one qualification each candidate must possess was prior experience as an AD (shocking). Said Mike Bobinski was easily the most impressive interview despite not being the most qualified candidate and that was with Mike Bobinski already holding the title of AD at two other universities. He said only one time in nearly 10 years has Mike Bobinski come to him for permission to do something and that was firing Darrell Hazell mid-season. He simply said, "can't believe you didn't ask me sooner". He went on to tell me that during the search for Hazzell's replacement he gave 2 order to Bobinski:

1) This is your budget

2) Use your head

He wanted no part of stepping on Bobinski's toes because at the end of the day that was why they hired Bobinski in the first place. 

Just thought it was interesting to hear a perspective from a rival school from someone so close to the situation. Just goes to show how much dysfunctional the leadership at Indiana has gotten. 

This is how it works at (almost) all universities that aren't named "Indiana"... and Berghoff is correct that Indiana's leadership is completely built on a house of cards... and when it crashes to the ground, they just stack the cards back up and do it again. Remember the definition of insanity? It's doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results.

[Mopladysman 278]

4 minutes ago, Five Prime said:

Is that how pro sports work? 

Nope but this is obviously not the same

[ib4iu 350]

8 minutes ago, Five Prime said:

Just for the sake of argument, isn't that sort of how professional sports are run?  Coach coaches and the GM manages the roster.  If we are in a new era of semiprofessional/pro-lite college sports, why can't that paradigm shift too?

It obviously can for the type Woodson wants to recruit. He’s building the G-League Hoosiers. Why go play for G-League Ignite, c’mon down to the Hoosiers. I guess I’m thinking more about how I think many would love a roster to be constructed with 8-9 players being 4 year guys for continuity and 3-4 players that are your 1 and dones and portal players. Thats how you build a culture. There will be no culture with IU basketball with Woodson as coach. 

[Five Prime 1,076]

Just now, Mopladysman said:

Nope but this is obviously not the same

Why?  If you look at it objectively they are pretty similar.  

[go iu bb 5,549]

1 hour ago, Hornsby said:

I doubt any of them even know who he is. Many probably don't even know who juwuan is and he is 14 years younger. Nobody cares that Woodson was a crappy nba coach a long time ago. His ego is just comical for a guy who never won anything

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1 hour ago, Home Jersey said:

No shot 90% of them have much of an idea about who he is unless they grew up around the NYC area. Most of these recruits barely remember the 2013 team. Sure hope those portal connections come through this year better than last.... not that it'll make a difference 

I'm 46 and tbh I didn't know who he was until his name came up during a previous coaching search.

[Five Prime 1,076]

Just now, ib4iu said:

It obviously can for the type Woodson wants to recruit. He’s building the G-League Hoosiers. Why go play for G-League Ignite, c’mon down to the Hoosiers. I guess I’m thinking more about how I think many would love a roster to be constructed with 8-9 players being 4 year guys for continuity and 3-4 players that are your 1 and dones and portal players. Thats how you build a culture. There will be no culture with IU basketball with Woodson as coach. 

That may be true, but this is what college sport has become.  It's not Woodsons fault that NIL and transfer portal exist.  If he embraces it differently than traditionalists believe he should, that's not his fault either.  If he doesn't win....that's his fault. 

[AZ Hoosier 6,571]

1 minute ago, Five Prime said:

That may be true, but this is what college sport has become.  It's not Woodsons fault that NIL and transfer portal exist.  If he embraces it differently than traditionalists believe he should, that's not his fault either.  If he doesn't win....that's his fault. 

Be careful... laying blame can hurt the coach's feelings... it's already cost us 4 years... don't need it to get any worse than it already is.

[Five Prime 1,076]

To be clear, I don't want Woodson either.  I think IU should move on now, not even wait until the end of the season.  I'm just providing some alternative perspectives. 

[Mr. Hoosier Pride 485]

3 hours ago, Chris007 said:

This is correct. Woodson doesn't think HS kids can contribute their freshman year unless they are 5*. So he wants to build his team through the portal from here on out. He will only see HS kids if he has too. He also wants to get the new GM so they can go to AAU events so he doesn't have too. 

let's just hope (bit of a stretch here) that we look back in 10 years and say "wow, Woody really knew what he was doing, he changed the game! everyone's doing it the Woody way now!"

sorry, i dozed off a bit...did i type while i was dreaming?

[Home Jersey 6,697]

Is there any doubt if Crean had the portal and NIL, we'd be way more competitive than we are today? Lol

Maybe he was the hero we needed, but never wanted... (mostly said in jest... but knowing what we do now about how Woody was treated when Archie was hired... may have spared us all some headaches if Crean was still coaching the team today). 

JFC

[IUrocker 2,145]

With everything Woody has done up to this point and how he’s acted, if he happens to be really successful next year, i feel like it’s just gonna be tarnished in a way. Great job Woody, your cigar buddies gave you a bunch of money to get NBA worthy players to win you games, not because you’re actually a good coach at Indiana University. I’m curious to know if most people would be like oh well at least we’re winning, or no, that’s pathetic, we need an actual coach who knows what he’s doing to build a program. I guess I could see mixed feelings there.

i just think it’s crazy that they’re trying to pull any string they can just to try to save a bad college basketball coach. 

[OKHOOSIER 1,984]

15 minutes ago, Five Prime said:

Just for the sake of argument, isn't that sort of how professional sports are run?  Coach coaches and the GM manages the roster.  If we are in a new era of semiprofessional/pro-lite college sports, why can't that paradigm shift too?

Except they are mortgaging the programs future. Unless this works (I’ll go on record saying it won’t), this could crater us from a personnel standpoint for the next hire. It is a risk our program cannot take— and as I mentioned earlier there is already an example with a far better coach— Arkansas, and it hasn’t worked but Muss is also still committed to HS recruiting. We have 24 years of mostly mediocre or bad basketball and we are leveraging an attempt at a new style of portal free agency. It’s risky at best, unconscionable neglect at worst. 

[Mr. Hoosier Pride 485]

24 minutes ago, HoosierMoore said:

I love the sunshine-pumpers on twitter/x acting like we are the crazy ones for wanting a new coach.  We won 3 games in a row and now we are Duke, Carolina, UCONN etc.  We're Back Baby!  Back to NIT maybe 

you're right.....I left every facebook fan group I was in today.  I got bashed for reminding everyone that it was Minnesota that we beat last night....

[Hornsby 1,652]

That may be true, but this is what college sport has become.  It's not Woodsons fault that NIL and transfer portal exist.  If he embraces it differently than traditionalists believe he should, that's not his fault either.  If he doesn't win....that's his fault. 

Mos teams don't use it as their main recruiting tool while ignoring hs recruits. We are no different than kentucky at this point

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[Banksyrules 4,566]

17 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

I didn't feel like typing this last night, but I don't have a busy day today and figure I'd share an encounter I had a few weeks ago with someone who I feel is qualified to say what they had to say.

So a few weeks ago I ran into Mike Berghoff at a Pacers game. For those who don't know, Mike is head of the Board of Trustees at Purdue. Mike and I go way back. Lived in the same neighborhood for many years and attended the same parish/school where some of our kids ran in the same circles. Hadn't seen him in awhile but small talk quickly turned into a conversation about IU/PU and the direction of both programs. After about 30 seconds of rambling on about Woodson he politely cut me off and said this:

"The problem isn't Woodson, look at your leadership. Look at who has been running your athletic department the last 10-15 years. Fred Glass? He's a lawyer. Scott Dolson? He's a fundraising guy. Who qualifications do either of those guys have in evaluating and conducting a coaching search?"

Of course I couldn't disagree with him and he went even further. Went on tell me that after being appointed chairman, his first big athletic task was naming a successor to Morgan Burke who had just announced his retirement. He said he along with the rest of the board, Mitch Daniels, and a small advisory group consisting of former Purdue athletes identified 5-6 candidates. He said the one qualification each candidate must possess was prior experience as an AD (shocking). Said Mike Bobinski was easily the most impressive interview despite not being the most qualified candidate and that was with Mike Bobinski already holding the title of AD at two other universities. He said only one time in nearly 10 years has Mike Bobinski come to him for permission to do something and that was firing Darrell Hazell mid-season. He simply said, "can't believe you didn't ask me sooner". He went on to tell me that during the search for Hazzell's replacement he gave 2 order to Bobinski:

1) This is your budget

2) Use your head

He wanted no part of stepping on Bobinski's toes because at the end of the day that was why they hired Bobinski in the first place. 

Just thought it was interesting to hear a perspective from a rival school from someone so close to the situation. Just goes to show how dysfunctional the leadership at Indiana has gotten. 

same formula at Duke and UNC

[Muskie for three 307]

2 hours ago, Five Prime said:

IF Woodson gets a GM for the basketball program maybe this could actually work.  I'm sure high level college athletics are messy to navigate with NIL and transfer portal, which is a full time job itself.  If he can get the players he needs to run the system he wants then maybe...?  I'm trying to find the positive here.  

Be the leader/ innovator in the new normal . Could work I guess . 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,688]

5 hours ago, Chris007 said:

Once again I feel like I have to share this every couple of years. I have never said I'm an insider, I've never said anyone should believe anything I say, I've never pushed anything I've heard as fact. I've never said you need to read anything I write or hear. All I have ever said is I will always share what I hear. If the mods want me to stop doing that I'm fine with that.

I didn't show up yesterday with an agenda. I've been here for many years. If you feel the need to take your shots at me, go for it, I'm a big boy. As someone told me yesterday I should disappear and come back with a different name. But I enjoy this board and the many friends I have made over the last 10 years. 

YOU DO IT FOR THE CLICKS!! Nah...80/20 rule, man. I think 80% of ppl here probably know exactly how to take the info you bring and appreciate the hell out of you spending the time bringing that info. I've always thought it was pretty hilarious seeing the ppl who come to a free message board thinking they're getting 100% concrete insider info. Wasn't somebody moaning about their reputation being ruined with people they know b/c they passed along info about Brad Stevens that they got from here? Man, that was a trip. Anyway, keep it coming buddy. But you at least owe me sushi.

[AZ Hoosier 6,571]

3 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

With everything Woody has done up to this point and how he’s acted, if he happens to be really successful next year, i feel like it’s just gonna be tarnished in a way. Great job Woody, your cigar buddies gave you a bunch of money to get NBA worthy players to win you games, not because you’re actually a good coach at Indiana University. I’m curious to know if most people would be like oh well at least we’re winning, or no, that’s pathetic, we need an actual coach who knows what he’s doing to build a program. I guess I could see mixed feelings there.

Nope... winning is important, but so is doing it the right way.

Remember all the criticism Bob Knight got for demanding that his players play the game but also respect the school, respect themselves and behave properly (Yeah, there were many cases where that didn't actually happen), yet he acted pretty boorishly quite often?

It's the same thing here... Woodson is simply taking whatever shortcuts he can to try to get the wins and (at least in his mind) the accolades that he deserves for "saving" the program... what message does that really send to the players on his team? To me, it says "take the shortcuts, you don't have to develop anything as long as you get the result"... then, when their basketball lives are over, what do they have to fall back on?

Woodson has shown me that he is full of himself, and has no intention of actually doing the work... he can talk the talk for a while, but that soon runs thin and rings hollow. All Woodson's coaching stint has done for me in tarnish his reputation.

We need an actual coach who knows what he's doing to build a program. And we needed it THREE years ago. 

[Stuhoo 79,786]

1 minute ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

YOU DO IT FOR THE CLICKS!! Nah...80/20 rule, man. I think 80% of ppl here probably know exactly how to take the info you bring and appreciate the hell out of you spending the time bringing that info. I've always thought it was pretty hilarious seeing the ppl who come to a free message board thinking they're getting 100% concrete insider info. Wasn't somebody moaning about their reputation being ruined with people they know b/c they passed along info about Brad Stevens that they got from here? Man, that was a trip. Anyway, keep it coming buddy. But you at least owe me sushi.

Just saying. There is NO place, for any amount of money, where 100% concrete insider information is available.

What this board is good at (when it's good)? Informed analysis.

[AZ Hoosier 6,571]

8 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

Mos teams don't use it as their main recruiting tool while ignoring hs recruits. We are no different than kentucky at this point

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Yeah we are... at least Cal makes it work every now and again...