* Empire Classic * Indiana vs. UCONN Sunday 11/19/2023 1 pm ESPN @MSG

[str8baller 6,155]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

Ware was great early, but became Oregon Ware in the second half.

“Oregon Ware” put up 18pts 9rbs 2asst and 1blk last year versus Uconn in a 14pt loss.  
 

I bet Woody wishes he had “Oregon Ware” today. 

[Josh 12,850]

7 minutes ago, str8baller said:

“Oregon Ware” put up 18pts 9rbs 2asst and 1blk last year versus Uconn in a 14pt loss.  
 

I bet Woody wishes he had “Oregon Ware” today. 

Fair.  I should have said end of year Oregon Ware with the reputation of effort issues.  It's the first I've seen of it this season and he's easily our best player.  He just disappeared in the second half.

[IU - Kaulie 1,941]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

Ok, scanned through thread- if you are doom and gloom, don’t read this. Yes, will be long

- this was a game until Malik went out. That is even with our rebounding, defensive issues and poor guard distribution. Those issues are a guard issues. We were out rebounded 47-25 and they had 18 offensive. If even, this game is tied or IU leads. But again, that is guards as much as anything.

- Mainly Trey and X. It is my hope that 2 guys with their experience can get it turned around. Think X can and just needs more game time after injury time away (that is hard to turn it back on) - Trey, I am not sure he can. He is a liability on D but looks like he defends because he is always running around out of position. He doesn’t go to glass to rebound and gets bumped off easily. 

- Cupps isn’t answer and it showed today against better athleticism.. I promise this is not an I told you so, just that we need to realize CJ is our only hope to turn around guard play. He continues to show little more. He is what we have. 

- the offensive concerns by many, we get plenty of 3p looks. We don’t shoot them because we are not confident to hit them. Can that change with more time for MM and CJ - hopefully but don’t see how offensive changes for more open looks helps at all right now. Those are the 2 who stand best chance of changing this.

- offense looks way better to when you play in more transition but you have to rebound for that. 

- let’s be real, the officiating was bad and didn’t help. They pushed off every drive and I never bring up officials. So bad rebounding, bad guard play, tough whistle, etc. and still in it until Malik sits. I was encouraged in many ways. 

- yes, we have to figure out MM. I think his D has gotten better every game (not there yet) and we all know scoring leads to more locked in D. He has to be a mess in his head. We have to get him scoring. That again is on our guards. He was open at times and we didn’t get it to him. He needs more shots. 

Can’t change what roster is now. Yes, they tried for better guards and couldn’t get them. rando shooter who can’t defend doesnt help. The upside is there. Get them rebounding, get X and Trey to defend better and distribute. Multiple fast break attempts squandered by both with bad passes, wrong reads etc. please also stop playing Walker and Sparks unless we have to. 

long story short, I still see the upside and think this loss may help some guys see what it is going to take. I am sure this embarrassed many of them. If we are not better by Kansas, I will worry. 

You probably know where I’m going to disagree.

Cupps got beat once or maybe twice but he held is own other times.  He is what many thought he would be for the most part and should continue getting his minutes.  I agree about Gunn.

Mgbako on the other hand is a train wreck.  I don’t see his defense having improved.  He is constantly out of position.  Any improvement is marginal at best and that’s being kind.  Now, his shot is not falling so what else is there.  He is not a good athlete at all but can probably fool a lot of people coming off the bus because of his size.  He is an especially awful fit next to Ware and Malik who both should play big minutes.  He should not be starting and should be earning his minutes like everyone else.  I’m tired of hearing about stars.  K. Lander was a 5 star too.  This isn’t high school or AAU.  This is big time college basketball.  He must be a practice phenom because I thought I remember CMW saying multiple times when he took the job the kids that played were going to be the kids that earned it.

[Golfman25 6,102]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

That’s not a good role for him considering he’s probably only second to MM in getting lost on defense. He gave up at least 3 3’s today with bad defensive decisions.  
 

There’sa reason Woody goes with Cupps when he wants MM out in the second half. It’s not particularly close either, so I’m unsure what some are seeing out there. 

True.  His best D is on the ball handler.  

[MikeRoberts 7,447]

CMW is going to have to bench Mgbako if he wants to have any chance to win games this season.

 

he is a horrendous defender and his offense isn’t much better. People can say “give him time”, sure but give him time on the bench and improve in practice.

 

he is currently our 9th or 10th best player and is killing us

[str8baller 6,155]

55 minutes ago, Josh said:

Fair.  I should have said end of year Oregon Ware with the reputation of effort issues.  It's the first I've seen of it this season and he's easily our best player.  He just disappeared in the second half.

Yea…I don’t know what happened in the 2nd.  I think it’s probably going to be hard for both him and Reneau to really occupy the paint. Maybe since Reneau was cooking it crowded him out a bit. Just a theory. 

[IUFAN1976 4,211]

3 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

CMW is going to have to bench Mgbako if he wants to have any chance to win games this season.

 

he is a horrendous defender and his offense isn’t much better. People can say “give him time”, sure but give him time on the bench and improve in practice.

 

he is currently our 9th or 10th best player and is killing us

I 100% agree with your comments on Mgbako, the guy isn’t even a 2-star player.  He was standing around on offense and can’t play a lick of defense.  I’ve never ever seen a 5-star player ever be this bad, heck I’ve seen 3-star recruits play this bad.  He needs to sit for about 3 or 4 games to see the game from a different perspective and drive some hunger in him but everyone knows CMW won’t bench him.  He likes to stick with the same lineups and it could hurt recruiting other 5-star recruits if he sits him.

[Hornsby 2,990]

CMW is going to have to bench Mgbako if he wants to have any chance to win games this season.
 
he is a horrendous defender and his offense isn’t much better. People can say “give him time”, sure but give him time on the bench and improve in practice.
 
he is currently our 9th or 10th best player and is killing us

Boy he is awful and so is Gunn. There isn't one grad transfer guard better than Gunn we could have gotten? Hard to believe.

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[Banksyrules 5,200]

7 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Again, his D isn’t that bad and he doesn’t get the ball on offense. You know, the Miller Kopp role.

His D is gawd awful.  

[IU_FanClub 1,744]

7 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Again, his D isn’t that bad and he doesn’t get the ball on offense. You know, the Miller Kopp role.

Looked on Thursday like he was more engaged when he was getting shots. However at this point I don't care what the numbers say his defense has been pathetic. Part of that is playing out of position I really think we need to move him to the backup 4.

[IU_FanClub 1,744]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

Yeah no.  Every shot he takes is off balance.  Can’t hit water if he fell out of a boat.  

Yeah that has a lot to do with him being mentally sped up. If he calms down and gets more comfortable you will see him start to shoot more on balance and hopefully hit.

[LamarCheeks 20,500]

24 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I 100% agree with your comments on Mgbako, the guy isn’t even a 2-star player.  He was standing around on offense and can’t play a lick of defense.  I’ve never ever seen a 5-star player ever be this bad, heck I’ve seen 3-star recruits play this bad.  

Ahem ... 

[monskisprodigy 2,176]

3 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

So you don’t believe the stats either.

look, not trying to win and argument with the entire board over this but their is some real bias happening here. Trey’a D is by far worst on the team and nobody is calling for his head.

I need to go back and watch the game again and focus on Trey, haven’t looked at the stats. 

But Jay Williams had 3-4 instances where he was calling out Mgbako on defense. I remember one where he was calling out his defensive stance and stiffness, another where he go beat badly on a back cut and did a complete 360 and there were several others. I think the criticism is fair of Mgbako, but also agree that  others should share the same if not more blame on the defensive side. 

I think the focus is on Mgbako, because he was touted as a program changing 5 star stud commitment. To say he is performing short of that assessment is reality. 
 

[Uspshoosier 48,561]

7 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

So you don’t believe the stats either.

look, not trying to win and argument with the entire board over this but their is some real bias happening here. Trey’a D is by far worst on the team and nobody is calling for his head.

You definitely are trying to win an argument over people that disagree with you.  You want to pied piper people over to your side and it just doesn’t work like that.    You feel one way and other people feel a different way.   Sometimes it’s best to just move on to something different.  It’s a free message board everyone isn’t going to agree on everything 

[MikeRoberts 7,447]

41 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I 100% agree with your comments on Mgbako, the guy isn’t even a 2-star player.  He was standing around on offense and can’t play a lick of defense.  I’ve never ever seen a 5-star player ever be this bad, heck I’ve seen 3-star recruits play this bad.  He needs to sit for about 3 or 4 games to see the game from a different perspective and drive some hunger in him but everyone knows CMW won’t bench him.  He likes to stick with the same lineups and it could hurt recruiting other 5-star recruits if he sits him.

99%, all but the last part. Him playing big minutes and playing poorly isn’t helping CMW nor MM - whether he sits the bench or plays, it’s not good for recruiting.

winning is good for recruiting and we won’t win much playing 4 on 5

[Hoosierfan2017 22,735]

12 minutes ago, monskisprodigy said:

I need to go back and watch the game again and focus on Trey, haven’t looked at the stats. 

But Jay Williams had 3-4 instances where he was calling out Mgbako on defense. I remember one where he was calling out his defensive stance and stiffness, another where he go beat badly on a back cut and did a complete 360 and there were several others. I think the criticism is fair of Mgbako, but also agree that  others should share the same if not more blame on the defensive side. 

I think the focus is on Mgbako, because he was touted as a program changing 5 star stud commitment. To say he is performing short of that assessment is reality. 
 

Screwing up off the court before the season even starts and then severely underwhelming on it once it does isn’t a good combination when it comes to endearing yourself to the fan base. Especially when you’re a highly touted recruit. 

[IUFAN1976 4,211]

28 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

Ahem ... 

I’m old, my memory isn’t what it used to be!  Actually, I on purposely developed amnesia when it came to him but honestly he played better than Mgbako has so far, I would rate him a 3-star and Mgbako a 2 star, lol.

[Hornsby 2,990]

I’m old, my memory isn’t what it used to be!  Actually, I on purposely developed amnesia when it came to him but honestly he played better than Mgbako has so far, I would rate him a 3-star and Mgbako a 2 star, lol.

How in the world was MM ranked #10 in the country?

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[Josh 12,850]

13 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Can I ask a question? 

why is it some people can beat on the same point like MM sucks over and over again in replies to me but if I use facts, data and reason in response, it gets called out to move on?  We have heard enough. Is this not what this board is for? Post opinions and thoughts on the team? 

And no, I actually 100% am not trying to win an argument and I know that I won’t change minds of certain people. Not that thick headed. I am also not trying to win over other posters, not going to lose sleep over it. 

I am posting another side of this rather than the last 10 post saying the guy should pretty much give up basketball when he isn’t even our biggest issue. Believe it, read it, don’t but nope, not trying to win a message board ribbon. 

You truly have no self awareness at all

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,514]

How in the world was MM ranked #10 in the country?

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Skills(shooting) and size. You can see it. I can see it.

He’s a freshman and he’s not comfortable. He’s never had to play defense. He isn’t adapting well so far. I can see moments he tried to lock in but seconds later he’ll make a mistake. On offense, he just doesn’t know his role and the few shots he’s taken mostly aren’t falling. He needs to play like Grady Dick did last year at Kansas. That is what IU needs him to be. He should watch 20 hours of Gradey Dick at Kansas. But he doesn’t shoot it as well as GD yet so, we are in some in-between world of hurt. He’s not too athletic. He doesn’t drive and finish well yet. I don’t think playing him at the 4 is a real option. Reneau and Ware must play a lot of minutes. Ugh.


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