2024 (F) Kanon Catchings and Whatever

[RaceToTheTop]

5 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Nobody would be happier than me if NIL undercut Purdue's program and made them an afterthought in college basketball, but we thought it was the beginning of the end when they lost out on Nigel Pack two years ago and all they've done since then is continue to pull in talent and get stronger. 

Simple question:  where do you think they would have finished in the Big Ten the past two seasons if Edey wasn't there?

[Scotty R]

11 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Simple question:  where do you think they would have finished in the Big Ten the past two seasons if Edey wasn't there?

Top 5

[IUFAN1976]

11 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Simple question:  where do you think they would have finished in the Big Ten the past two seasons if Edey wasn't there?

Middle of the pack, IMO.  Anywhere from 5-8, but no higher than 5.

[RaceToTheTop]

9 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Middle of the pack, IMO.  Anywhere from 5-8, but no higher than 5.

Just as a reminder, Wisconsin finished 5th in the Big Ten.  So let's say Purdue didn't have Edey and were a Wisconsin type of team last season.  Now, with Edey out of the equation, they are losing three players:  Lance Jones, Mason Gillis, and Ethan Morton.  If you are matching them up with Wisconsin, the best matches are Lance Jones = Max Klesmit, Mason Gillis = John Blackwell, and Ethan Morton = some back end rotation player.

So let's say that Wisconsin returned everyone from last year's roster but lost Klesmit, Blackwell, and a back end rotation guy.  Would anyone seriously consider that Wisconsin team a top 20 team?

[CSP]

20 hours ago, Scotty R said:

Top 5

If so, wow our league sucks.  

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

11 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Just as a reminder, Wisconsin finished 5th in the Big Ten.  So let's say Purdue didn't have Edey and were a Wisconsin type of team last season.  Now, with Edey out of the equation, they are losing three players:  Lance Jones, Mason Gillis, and Ethan Morton.  If you are matching them up with Wisconsin, the best matches are Lance Jones = Max Klesmit, Mason Gillis = John Blackwell, and Ethan Morton = some back end rotation player.

So let's say that Wisconsin returned everyone from last year's roster but lost Klesmit, Blackwell, and a back end rotation guy.  Would anyone seriously consider that Wisconsin team a top 20 team?

Except Purdue is returning the best point guard in the conference, a Top 5 SG, TKR who has had some big games as a 4th-5th option and the best coach in the conference.

[Stuhoo]

6 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Except Purdue is returning the best point guard in the conference, a Top 5 SG, TKR who has had some big games as a 4th-5th option and the best coach in the conference.

They got a different shooting guard? That'll help them a bunch - Loyer was so completely abused on the defensive end again last year that they had to take him out of late game situations. 

If they replaced him with a top 5 shooting guard in the conference they'll be dangerous, but without Edey they looked pretty mediocre even last year.

 

[CSP]

13 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Except Purdue is returning the best point guard in the conference, a Top 5 SG, TKR who has had some big games as a 4th-5th option and the best coach in the conference.

Weak conference if the first two statements are true 

[Scotty R]

2 hours ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

If so, wow our league sucks.  

Everytime people think Purdue will fall off they never do. After Carson they said that and after Ivey the same thing. Two years ago nobody thought Edey would be as  good as he was but they came out and dominated early that year.

Also I already thought the conference has been down for awhile now. To me the more teams you put in the more diluted it becomes. You should realize when your second place team finishes 12-8 your conference is mediocre.

[8bucks]

1 hour ago, Scotty R said:

Everytime people think Purdue will fall off they never do. After Carson they said that and after Ivey the same thing. Two years ago nobody thought Edey would be as  good as he was but they came out and dominated early that year.

Also I already thought the conference has been down for awhile now. To me the more teams you put in the more diluted it becomes. You should realize when your second place team finishes 12-8 your conference is mediocre.

Believe it or not Dakich made a good point several years back and said that Painter needed to get back to recruiting Purdue guys.  Kids that were overlooked, chip on their shoulder, tough and willing to work hard type of guys.  He has largely done that and sprinkled in some higher end kids but Painter has been able to build a competitive culture there that has allowed him to sustain success.  Does not mean he wont swing and miss and have a drop off but I do not immediately count them out just because they lose Edey.

As for a watered down conference and 12-8 indicating mediocrity, i think a better measure should be post season success.  Winning percentage in the tournament would be part of that but having teams reach the elite 8/final 4 and championship games regularly (which I do not think we have had) is a better indicator.  

[Stuhoo]

1 hour ago, Scotty R said:

Every time people think Purdue Michigan/Wisconsin/Michigan State will fall off they never do. 

Teams fall off - None of the above-highlighted teams have been near the top of the conference the last few years.

I think Purdud will be a decent, top half of the conference team this year, mainly for me because I think Heide and Colvin will develop into plus players, but to think that with crap NIL they can stay at the very top? Possible, but not necessarily.

[HoosierHoopster]

29 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Teams fall off - None of the above-highlighted teams have been near the top of the conference the last few years.

I think Purdud will be a decent, top half of the conference team this year, mainly for me because I think Heide and Colvin will develop into plus players, but to think that with crap NIL they can stay at the very top? Possible, but not necessarily.

Agree. As @8bucks points out Painter has done a good job recruiting and developing Purdue guys. That will keep them relevant, and I don't think they're about to fall off a cliff just because Frankenstein is gone, but it's not going to keep them competing at the top of the conference. With NIL the way it is right now, IU and other teams should be at the top (though in IU's case imo that's going to turn on how our coaching situation works out).

[Scotty R]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Teams fall off - None of the above-highlighted teams have been near the top of the conference the last few years.

I think Purdud will be a decent, top half of the conference team this year, mainly for me because I think Heide and Colvin will develop into plus players, but to think that with crap NIL they can stay at the very top? Possible, but not necessarily.

I think it will be IU and PU fighting for 1st place this year. I still think team continuity and team chemistry is the key to winning over trying to buy a team every year.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

4 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

They got a different shooting guard? That'll help them a bunch - Loyer was so completely abused on the defensive end again last year that they had to take him out of late game situations. 

If they replaced him with a top 5 shooting guard in the conference they'll be dangerous, but without Edey they looked pretty mediocre even last year.

 

Conference isn't exactly strong at SG.

[Stuhoo]

Galloway, Carlyle, Meechie, Gayle, Ty Berry, Jaden Akins, Dix, tj Banba, Kern.

There ya go; nine that I’d take over Loyer. Hell, add Colvin from Purdump. He was already playing instead of Loyer for defense and he’s got a way higher ceiling.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

16 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Galloway, Carlyle, Meechie, Gayle, Ty Berry, Jaden Akins, Dix, tj Banba, Kern.

There ya go; nine that I’d take over Loyer. Hell, add Colvin from Purdump. He was already playing instead of Loyer for defense and he’s got a way higher ceiling.

And Loyer is the only one out of any of them that has won anything while also being good.

[Stuhoo]

13 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

And Loyer is the only one out of any of them that has won anything while also being good.

Well then put Caleb Furst and Willie Berg ahead of the posts in the conference too. My point is that Purdue won despite Loyer, not because of him. When they won because of him, it was largely because Edey drew a ton of double and triple teams, and Loyer shot open threes. 

Loyer is a pretty decent open catch and shoot guy, and outstanding free throw shooter, and pretty bad at pretty much everything else. Lousy handle, doesn't go to the rim, awful rebounder, and most importantly is a bad defender. As a  career starter he is below 40% from both the field and three; he shot it better last year (but played less than as a freshman). 

Purdue may be very good again, but if they are it might be because Colvin and Harris take a bunch of Loyer's minutes.

[HoosierHoopster]

^^ None of them have anything on Leal though: GOAT

[Stuhoo]

44 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

^^ None of them have anything on Leal though: GOAT

Leal > Loyer

;)

Let's see you process and argue about that one @Loaded Chicken Sandwich!  :) 

[OGIUAndy]

10 hours ago, Scotty R said:

I think it will be IU and PU fighting for 1st place this year. I still think team continuity and team chemistry is the key to winning over trying to buy a team every year.

Any team who's not playing that game is going to lose out when it's all said and done. Continuity is important, but if your team is a bunch of freshmen and sophomore's playing against 3, 4, and 5 year guys, you're going to lose regardless if the older team was "bought". Filling in the gaps with said "bought" players instead of relying on freshmen is the way to go. The idea that continuity is better than buying players sounds good and I suppose teams/schools that have poor NIL can try to sell that idea, but I am not really buying it. When it's all said and done, both are finding players that fit and play well together. Older players don't have to figure everything out though. Continuity at the end of the season (tourney time) is when it matters most.