Game Thread: Indiana vs. Arizona (12/10) 7:30 p.m. EST on Fox

[MikeRoberts 7,998]

3 hours ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

Every time X plays with an edge fans get their panties in a bunch. Can't have it both ways.

Eh, there is an edge and there is X. X has his moments where he is dialed in and on a mission and that translates. He also has his moments where he is a sideshow, trying to trip players and get tied up with them, flailing around/flipping - that’s not an edge 

[str8baller 7,797]

17 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I wonder why most NBA coaches and many college coaches track advanced stats, I guess they’re all clueless geeks, right?

There’s a difference between tracking a bunch of stats and using them to supplement what you’re seeing on the floor vs taking a couple of poor advanced stats and using them to show that an outlier is actually good and should play more. 
 

All coaches do the former. No good coaches do the latter. 
 

If you look at a stat that says JG is the teams best (or 2nd best) defender and think to yourself “JG’s good at defense and should definitely play more” instead of “something is off about this stat, I shouldn’t place blind faith in it” then you are not using stats very effectively. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,790]

All I know is the Rutgers game coupled with the Arizona game and the likely Kansas result has dampened my enthusiasm a bit.  Never miss a game. Still very excited to see what this group can do.  Hope they can grow.  It’s now more of a nervous energy instead of a confidence going into games.   

Edited December 14, 2022 by WayneFleekHoosier

[HoosierHoopster 8,860]

17 minutes ago, str8baller said:

There’s a difference between tracking a bunch of stats and using them to supplement what you’re seeing on the floor vs taking a couple of poor advanced stats and using them to show that an outlier is actually good and should play more. 
 

All coaches do the former. No good coaches do the latter. 
 

If you look at a stat that says JG is the teams best (or 2nd best) defender and think to yourself “JG’s good at defense and should definitely play more” instead of “something is off about this stat, I shouldn’t place blind faith in it” then you are not using stats very effectively. 

There’s no blind faith at all in JG’s front court D, it’s blind not to see he’s one of our best. His defensive deficiency has been perimeter D, which is pretty clearly better this year, though not as good as some. Take off the blind man’s glasses

[Alford Bailey 13,233]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

All I know is the Rutgers game coupled with the Arizona game and the likely Kansas result has dampened my enthusiasm a bit.  Never miss a game. Still very excited to see what this group can do.  Hope they can grow.  It’s now more of a nervous energy instead of a confidence going into games.   

Can we have a bad loss before the hand wringing starts? Most were gonna be satisfied with 2-2 in the 4 big non con games. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,324]

54 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Can we have a bad loss before the hand wringing starts? Most were gonna be satisfied with 2-2 in the 4 big non con games. 

I just want to see Woody actually make some freaking adjustments on offense. It's a guarantee that TJD is going to get doubled or even tripled. Literally all eyes on him. There needs to be a lot of movement off of him. TJD needs to be moving a lot more to get easier buckets. There haven't been any adjustments so far. It isn't a question anymore about what other teams will do with TJD. It's always going to be a double and every team has figured out that it works. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,790]

52 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Can we have a bad loss before the hand wringing starts? Most were gonna be satisfied with 2-2 in the 4 big non con games. 

I tend to agree, and before the season I stated I would be happy with 2-2 in the big games.  But whatever reason, it's how I feel.  If we win some solid games on the road in the B1G that'll change things but we just look more like a top 20-30 team then a top 10 team.  I'll take it.  But the expectations within the program are higher.  We got close at Rutgers and then beat soundly, we got close against Arizona and then beat soundly.   This team has the talent/experience to be top 10 I believe still.  At Kansas was always going to be the toughest of the schedule. Hope we find our groove and gut out some road wins.  Also hope we start getting a more fair whistle in general.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,790]

4 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I just want to see Woody actually make some freaking adjustments on offense. It's a guarantee that TJD is going to get doubled or even tripled. Literally all eyes on him. There needs to be a lot of movement off of him. TJD needs to be moving a lot more to get easier buckets. There haven't been any adjustments so far. It isn't a question anymore about what other teams will do with TJD. It's always going to be a double and every team has figured out that it works. 

I think AT Rutgers was the worst we can be on Offense and against Arizona was the worst we can be at Defense so at least I think we've seen it all.  

[HoosierHoopster 8,860]

8 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I tend to agree, and before the season I stated I would be happy with 2-2 in the big games.  But whatever reason, it's how I feel.  If we win some solid games on the road in the B1G that'll change things but we just look more like a top 20-30 team then a top 10 team.  I'll take it.  But the expectations within the program are higher.  We got close at Rutgers and then beat soundly, we got close against Arizona and then beat soundly.   This team has the talent/experience to be top 10 I believe still.  At Kansas was always going to be the toughest of the schedule. Hope we find our groove and gut out some road wins.  Also hope we start getting a more fair whistle in general.

I hear you WayneFleek -- but think that missing JHS is hard to overstate, what he brings in guard/perimeter D and orchestrating the O is hard to overstate (imo). '

I picked 2-2 for these noncon games, while thinking 3-1 was possible. The thumping of UNC lost some of its luster as UNC wasn't as good as projected and fell out of the rankings, but it's still going to be a good W and probably better later in the season (I'd bet on UNC getting its act together later). Xavier too.

I'm 99.9% sure we lose at KU, but getting JHS back, and with Bates and Gallo both raising their games, I think we'll get back to the team we were hoping to see soon. I'd also bank on at least Malik getting more PT (and, you know, hopefully JG too -- lol)

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,324]

21 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I tend to agree, and before the season I stated I would be happy with 2-2 in the big games.  But whatever reason, it's how I feel.  If we win some solid games on the road in the B1G that'll change things but we just look more like a top 20-30 team then a top 10 team.  I'll take it.  But the expectations within the program are higher.  We got close at Rutgers and then beat soundly, we got close against Arizona and then beat soundly.   This team has the talent/experience to be top 10 I believe still.  At Kansas was always going to be the toughest of the schedule. Hope we find our groove and gut out some road wins.  Also hope we start getting a more fair whistle in general.

Kentucky won by like 30 last year at Allen Fieldhouse... But then Kentucky also lost to the Peacocks and Kansas won the national title. 

[str8baller 7,797]

3 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

There’s no blind faith at all in JG’s front court D, it’s blind not to see he’s one of our best. His defensive deficiency has been perimeter D, which is pretty clearly better this year, though not as good as some. Take off the blind man’s glasses

He got bullied down low against Arizona like everyone else. And he contributed very little on offense.  
 

not a good game to make the case for JG playing time. I’m curious as to what you watched that makes you feel like he was some standout on post defense?

[HoosierHoopster 8,860]

2 minutes ago, str8baller said:

He got bullied down low against Arizona like everyone else. And he contributed very little on offense.  
 

not a good game to make the case for JG playing time. I’m curious as to what you watched that makes you feel like he was some standout on post defense?

Good grief, he's dominated inside in multiple games. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's extremely clear he's been one of our best interior defenders, and yes, the stats, on good minutes, obviously show that. Those AZ bigs are really, really good, experienced Euro bigs. That said, he barely played against Zona, not much to be drawn from that game other than those guys are really good, hats off to them.

[str8baller 7,797]

27 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

but we just look more like a top 20-30 team then a top 10 team.

This was always the odds on favorite scenario. We talked ourselves into the high side because we’re fans. The media thoughthe B1G would stink and labeled us #1 not helping our enthusiasm any.  
 

We’re where we should realistically be. I let my hopes get up too, so I’m not throwing any shade your way. 

[str8baller 7,797]

Just now, HoosierHoopster said:

3 minutes ago, str8baller said:

 

Good grief, he's dominated inside in multiple games. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's extremely clear he's been one of our best interior defenders, and yes, the stats, on good minutes, obviously show that

He has not and he is not. If you’re thinking of the 300+ ranked opponents, lose that thought because those games are irrelevant. 

[HoosierHoopster 8,860]

12 minutes ago, str8baller said:

He has not and he is not. If you’re thinking of the 300+ ranked opponents, lose that thought because those games are irrelevant. 

[Hoosierfan2017 25,176]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Good grief, he's dominated inside in multiple games. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's extremely clear he's been one of our best interior defenders, and yes, the stats, on good minutes, obviously show that. Those AZ bigs are really, really good, experienced Euro bigs. That said, he barely played against Zona, not much to be drawn from that game other than those guys are really good, hats off to them.

I couldn’t care less about his play against schools like Jackson State or Little Rock. He hasn’t had a single good game against a legitimate team this year. I posted this before, but I’ll post it again.

Inthe 5 games we’ve played against legitimate teams, here are his stats:

Xavier: 1 point, 1 rebound, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 0 assists in 5 minutes.

UNC: 2 points, 2 rebounds, 2 steals, 0 blocks, 0 assist, 4 fouls (in 11 minutes).

Rutgers: 2 points, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 0 assists in 11 minutes.

Nebraska: 1 point, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 0 assists in 9 minutes.

Arizona: 2 points, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 0 assists in 8 minutes.

8 points, 4 rebounds, 3 steals, 0 blocks, and 0 steals across 5 games. Not every athletic 6’6 kid with potential develops into a player. At some point ‘potential’ has to translate into performance. Right now, he’s an end of the rotation guy on a good P5 team.

[HoosierHoopster 8,860]

38 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I couldn’t care less about his play against schools like Jackson State or Little Rock. He hasn’t had a single good game against a legitimate team this year. I posted this before, but I’ll post it again.

Inthe 5 games we’ve played against legitimate teams, here are his stats:

Xavier: 1 point, 1 rebound, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 0 assists in 5 minutes.

UNC: 2 points, 2 rebounds, 2 steals, 0 blocks, 0 assist, 4 fouls (in 11 minutes).

Rutgers: 2 points, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 0 assists in 11 minutes.

Nebraska: 1 point, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 0 assists in 9 minutes.

Arizona: 2 points, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 0 assists in 8 minutes.

8 points, 4 rebounds, 3 steals, 0 blocks, and 0 steals across 5 games. Not every athletic 6’6 kid with potential develops into a player. At some point ‘potential’ has to translate into performance. Right now, he’s an end of the rotation guy on a good P5 team.

Dude you just cherry pick all over the place. Leaving aside that you post here either after or during losses and only look to criticize players or the team, you just ignore anything and everything that cuts against your arguments. It gets old fast, i’m not interested in discussing your cherry picked versions of reality, count me out of discussion with you, i’m not interested 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 93,241]

Now boys, remember Santa is watching and adding to his naughty and nice list.

[Hoosierfan2017 25,176]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Dude you just cherry pick all over the place. Leaving aside that you post here either after or during losses and only look to criticize players or the team, you just ignore anything and everything that cuts against your arguments. It gets old fast, i’m not interested in discussing your cherry picked versions of reality, count me out of discussion with you, i’m not interested 

Oh the irony. 

There’s nothing cherry picked about my stats. If you want to wax poetic about how amazing Geronimo was against 3-7 Little Rock, knock yourself out. You can go on and on about how great IUFB did against Idaho too while you’re at it. I do not care about how he does against crappy teams. We don’t play in a conference with schools of that caliber. We play in the Big 10. I care about how he does against Big 10 caliber schools because, guess what, that’s who we play the rest of the season. We only have two cupcakes left. Against non-cupcake teams JG hasn’t done jack this season. That’s just reality. 

[rcbowla 8,282]

Oh the irony. 
There’s nothing cherry picked about my stats. If you want to wax poetic about how amazing Geronimo was against 3-7 Little Rock, knock yourself out. You can go on and on about how great IUFB did against Idaho too while you’re at it. I do not care about how he does against crappy teams. We don’t play in a conference with schools of that caliber. We play in the Big 10. I care about how he does against Big 10 caliber schools because, guess what, that’s who we play the rest of the season. We only have two cupcakes left. Against non-cupcake teams JG hasn’t done jack this season. That’s just reality. 

Correct me if I'm wrong (not being a smart @$$) seriously correct me, but aren't you one of the people that kept insisting K. Lander get more PT last year? Seems like a similar type of argument here except you're on the other side this time. And K. Lander didn't do worth a diddly poo against B1G or cupcakes.

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