Early 2022-2023 Top 25

[eddy4iu 621]

IU @ #14

https://watchstadium.com/jeff-goodmans-way-too-early-preseason-top-25-for-2022-23-04-04-2022/

[Hardwood83 4,725]

2 hours ago, eddy4iu said:

IU @ #14

https://watchstadium.com/jeff-goodmans-way-too-early-preseason-top-25-for-2022-23-04-04-2022/

No reason to quibble about his rankings since there is still so much unknown, but interesting there are only 2 B1G teams on there! 

 

 

[ray 1,563]

Kelvin freaking Sampson.  

Was Indiana just a few too many phone calls away from being a legitimate contender on an annual basis, or would half of Sampson's teams been dismissed from IU anyways for poor grades and too many ounces of weed in their possession?  It's tough to say.

[IU Scott 2,375]

1 hour ago, ray said:

Kelvin freaking Sampson.  

Was Indiana just a few too many phone calls away from being a legitimate contender on an annual basis, or would half of Sampson's teams been dismissed from IU anyways for poor grades and too many ounces of weed in their possession?  It's tough to say.

More than a few phone calls since we had drug dealers and pimps on those teams.

[IUFAN1976 2,772]

2 hours ago, Hardwood83 said:

No reason to quibble about his rankings since there is still so much unknown, but interesting there are only 2 B1G teams on there! 

 

 

It seems that is the same theme for all Way-To-Early Top 25 polls!  Michigan around 10-14 and IU around 12-21

[go iu bb 5,478]

3 hours ago, Hardwood83 said:

No reason to quibble about his rankings since there is still so much unknown, but interesting there are only 2 B1G teams on there! 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

It seems that is the same theme for all Way-To-Early Top 25 polls!  Michigan around 10-14 and IU around 12-21

The B1G has gotten a lot of love in the rankings the last few years followed by underperforming in the NCAAT. That probably has a lot to do with it it, along with a lot of talent either going pro or running out of eligibility within the conference.

So I'm not surprised. 

[BtownStrength 1,099]

Big 10 will definitely be down. We must capitalize on an easier conference and win a few of the key OOC games. 

[MikeRoberts 6,914]

19 minutes ago, BtownStrength said:

Big 10 will definitely be down. We must capitalize on an easier conference and win a few of the key OOC games. 

I couldn’t agree more. With our roster and the opposing rosters, this has to be a year we finally get over the hump and win 12+ in conference and really should be more

[HoosierHoopster 6,763]

5 hours ago, ray said:

Kelvin freaking Sampson.  

Was Indiana just a few too many phone calls away from being a legitimate contender on an annual basis, or would half of Sampson's teams been dismissed from IU anyways for poor grades and too many ounces of weed in their possession?  It's tough to say.

Yeah, the latter. Love Sampson’s coaching, dude knows how to strategize and the guys play their best for him, but U of H’s standards for player academics and lifestyle differs from IU. Guys under Sampson at IU were failing out and regularly getting into drug issues. Phonegate was a joke, but Sampson wouldn’t have worked out at IU anyway

[HoosierHoopster 6,763]

1 hour ago, MikeRoberts said:

I couldn’t agree more. With our roster and the opposing rosters, this has to be a year we finally get over the hump and win 12+ in conference and really should be more

Just curb stomp Wisconsin 

[eddy4iu 621]

1 minute ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Just curb stomp Wisconsin 

For BOTH halves!!!

[Dave from Dayton 2,926]

13 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Yeah, the latter. Love Sampson’s coaching, dude knows how to strategize and the guys play their best for him, but U of H’s standards for player academics and lifestyle differs from IU. Guys under Sampson at IU were failing out and regularly getting into drug issues. Phonegate was a joke, but Sampson wouldn’t have worked out at IU anyway

Phonegate didn't appear to be a joke to me.  It was worse.  A lot worse.

First off...who was responsible for hiring a basketball coach?  The AD?  No?  It appeared that one person on the Board of Trustees insisted on Sampson. 

As an aside, I thought that Sampson could coach.  Win/loss results were really good.  

However, it became subsequently clear that Sampson was already on double-secret probation for impermissible contacts with recruits at his previous coaching job (not to mention the off-court issues).  It was controversial at IU to hire him since he had that NCAA rule violation history and was on probation.  IU was just too squeaky clean to hire him.  Right? Controversy ensued focused not only on the noncompliance issue but on which side of the equal opportunity scale one sits. If that isn't bad enough.  What was worse was that this was out in the media and reflected negatively on the program and on the university.   OK, setting that bag of worms aside.

The next step is unforgivable. IU did not provide the monitoring and control feedback and oversight that was so very obviously necessary. I mean, to jeopardize the IU basketball program's already screwed up marquee program with a lack of oversight.  Not to mention, Sampson did it and others on staff did it too. But IU's casual attitude toward requiring compliance was pathetically non-existent.

It makes little difference to me that such phone calls were allowed to be made by others.  That is not material to this compliance issue.

To make matters worse, IU fell on our own sword.  We imposed on our self such a restrictive penalty that...ugh...we ended up getting another decade of bad management.  What coach would come to IU and work under management that really, really doesn't know how to put a program in a position to succeed?  To answer that question: Of course, Tom Crean.  He who had caught one great player, Wade, but had hit a plateau at Marquette...and burned some bridges in the area. And likely was on a slippery slope there.

This was not a joke.  IU has suffered from a lack of proper management of the basketball program for way over 2 decades. 

Until last year.  Thanks goodness.

It is not a joke.  It was a symptom of a larger problem.

It is Indiana!

[HoosierHoopster 6,763]

2 hours ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Phonegate didn't appear to be a joke to me.  It was worse.  A lot worse.

First off...who was responsible for hiring a basketball coach?  The AD?  No?  It appeared that one person on the Board of Trustees insisted on Sampson. 

As an aside, I thought that Sampson could coach.  Win/loss results were really good.  

However, it became subsequently clear that Sampson was already on double-secret probation for impermissible contacts with recruits at his previous coaching job (not to mention the off-court issues).  It was controversial at IU to hire him since he had that NCAA rule violation history and was on probation.  IU was just too squeaky clean to hire him.  Right? Controversy ensued focused not only on the noncompliance issue but on which side of the equal opportunity scale one sits. If that isn't bad enough.  What was worse was that this was out in the media and reflected negatively on the program and on the university.   OK, setting that bag of worms aside.

The next step is unforgivable. IU did not provide the monitoring and control feedback and oversight that was so very obviously necessary. I mean, to jeopardize the IU basketball program's already screwed up marquee program with a lack of oversight.  Not to mention, Sampson did it and others on staff did it too. But IU's casual attitude toward requiring compliance was pathetically non-existent.

It makes little difference to me that such phone calls were allowed to be made by others.  That is not material to this compliance issue.

To make matters worse, IU fell on our own sword.  We imposed on our self such a restrictive penalty that...ugh...we ended up getting another decade of bad management.  What coach would come to IU and work under management that really, really doesn't know how to put a program in a position to succeed?  To answer that question: Of course, Tom Crean.  He who had caught one great player, Wade, but had hit a plateau at Marquette...and burned some bridges in the area. And likely was on a slippery slope there.

This was not a joke.  IU has suffered from a lack of proper management of the basketball program for way over 2 decades. 

Until last year.  Thanks goodness.

It is not a joke.  It was a symptom of a larger problem.

It is Indiana!

It really was something of a joke. The phone call violations that the University self-reported, leading to NCAA major infractions (because the NCAA powers that be were furious that Sampson had gotten away from Okla when they were coming down on that program) were no longer a violation the very next year. This was not bags of cash, not fake classes, not buying a car or a house for a family member, this was three-way calls and otherwise impermissible phone calls to recruits. Do you think any other major program would have completely dismantled and destroyed their marquee basketball program over that?? Self-sanctioned leaving the University with not a single scholarship athlete and playing baseball players and walkons?? No way, no way in the world. Yes, it was a joke. A really bad joke.

And yes it was controversial, and stupid, that IU hired him knowing of his violations at Okla and the probation the U placed him under, but that doesn't change that the phone calls themselves were exceptionally minor in the grand scheme of things, they were. The program was not screwed up before Sampson, it was undergoing a major transition from firing RMK but it wasn't screwed up.

But agree or not on all that, my point was Sampson was and is an exceptional basketball mind and coach, but while the actual infractions were just silly in the grand scheme of things, as it became clear the 'program' under his 'watch' really was a 'lack of institutional control' because of the complete fall off in and disregard of academics, and a growing drug culture (and we lost out on some really good IN players including the older Zeller IIRC because of that), he wasn't going to work out at IU anyway, and -- imo -- as bad as the last decade has been, we'll be better off, hopefully now under Woodson.

[IUFAN1976 2,772]

Uh no, Trayce does have an outside shot!  Wow, where was that all season!  With that, he will climb in the draft.  He may not be back!  But good for him!

https://www.insidethehall.com/2022/05/06/trayce-jackson-davis-shows-off-perimeter-shooting-at-los-angeles-workout/

[Stuhoo 79,586]

14 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

It really was something of a joke. The phone call violations that the University self-reported, leading to NCAA major infractions (because the NCAA powers that be were furious that Sampson had gotten away from Okla when they were coming down on that program) were no longer a violation the very next year. This was not bags of cash, not fake classes, not buying a car or a house for a family member, this was three-way calls and otherwise impermissible phone calls to recruits. Do you think any other major program would have completely dismantled and destroyed their marquee basketball program over that?? Self-sanctioned leaving the University with not a single scholarship athlete and playing baseball players and walkons?? No way, no way in the world. Yes, it was a joke. A really bad joke.

And yes it was controversial, and stupid, that IU hired him knowing of his violations at Okla and the probation the U placed him under, but that doesn't change that the phone calls themselves were exceptionally minor in the grand scheme of things, they were. The program was not screwed up before Sampson, it was undergoing a major transition from firing RMK but it wasn't screwed up.

But agree or not on all that, my point was Sampson was and is an exceptional basketball mind and coach, but while the actual infractions were just silly in the grand scheme of things, as it became clear the 'program' under his 'watch' really was a 'lack of institutional control' because of the complete fall off in and disregard of academics, and a growing drug culture (and we lost out on some really good IN players including the older Zeller IIRC because of that), he wasn't going to work out at IU anyway, and -- imo -- as bad as the last decade has been, we'll be better off, hopefully now under Woodson.

The problem was simple;

For a variety of reasons;

1. bad culture/good coach,
2. motivated but weird coach,
3. program too big for the expertise coach,

We hired the wrong guy over and over.

The solution? WE SHOULD HAVE HIRED MIKE WOODSON 15 YEARS AGO.

He might have said yes if we'd pursued hard enough.

 

[Dave from Dayton 2,926]

5 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

It really was something of a joke. The phone call violations that the University self-reported, leading to NCAA major infractions (because the NCAA powers that be were furious that Sampson had gotten away from Okla when they were coming down on that program) were no longer a violation the very next year. This was not bags of cash, not fake classes, not buying a car or a house for a family member, this was three-way calls and otherwise impermissible phone calls to recruits. Do you think any other major program would have completely dismantled and destroyed their marquee basketball program over that?? Self-sanctioned leaving the University with not a single scholarship athlete and playing baseball players and walkons?? No way, no way in the world. Yes, it was a joke. A really bad joke.

And yes it was controversial, and stupid, that IU hired him knowing of his violations at Okla and the probation the U placed him under, but that doesn't change that the phone calls themselves were exceptionally minor in the grand scheme of things, they were. The program was not screwed up before Sampson, it was undergoing a major transition from firing RMK but it wasn't screwed up.

But agree or not on all that, my point was Sampson was and is an exceptional basketball mind and coach, but while the actual infractions were just silly in the grand scheme of things, as it became clear the 'program' under his 'watch' really was a 'lack of institutional control' because of the complete fall off in and disregard of academics, and a growing drug culture (and we lost out on some really good IN players including the older Zeller IIRC because of that), he wasn't going to work out at IU anyway, and -- imo -- as bad as the last decade has been, we'll be better off, hopefully now under Woodson.

Heh, I am not getting the bad joke.  I wish IU didn't get the last 20 years.  

In my pro-Hoosier opinion, IU screwed up not managing RMK before he and IU went off the rails.  IU screwed up by firing him after the double-secret probation they invoked on him.  Not only did they screw RMK and didn't stop him from screwing himself and IU, but they stuck a fork in the future by letting the players pick the next coach.  

Because the management was so messed up about those two coaches and the downward trend of wins, the Board of Trustees imposed Sampson on IU.  I see this as screwed up.  In many ways.

And the lack of institutional control as the above post calls it followed and is just like the lack of control on RMK.  That was a continuous series of screwup after screwup. 

They have been reacting instead of acting as far as coach hirings for way too long.  Until Woodsen.  I hope.

 

[HoosierHoopster 6,763]

14 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

The problem was simple;

For a variety of reasons;

1. bad culture/good coach,
2. motivated but weird coach,
3. program too big for the expertise coach,

We hired the wrong guy over and over.

The solution? WE SHOULD HAVE HIRED MIKE WOODSON 15 YEARS AGO.

He might have said yes if we'd pursued hard enough.

 

Wait, Crean was weird?

:)

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,923]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

The problem was simple;

For a variety of reasons;

1. bad culture/good coach,
2. motivated but weird coach,
3. program too big for the expertise coach,

We hired the wrong guy over and over.

The solution? WE SHOULD HAVE HIRED MIKE WOODSON 15 YEARS AGO.

He might have said yes if we'd pursued hard enough.

 

Wouldn’t have competed in the holier than thou era pre NIL with our administration, unless we kept Sampson or got lucky on a Brad Stevens and just the very right, right, right pieces. 

[rayl456 459]

4 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Uh no, Trayce does have an outside shot!  Wow, where was that all season!  With that, he will climb in the draft.  He may not be back!  But good for him!

https://www.insidethehall.com/2022/05/06/trayce-jackson-davis-shows-off-perimeter-shooting-at-los-angeles-workout/

One video and "he will climb in the draft"?  Not sure I believe that's going to happen, but I suppose stranger things have when it comes to the NBA draft.  Guess we will just wait to see.   :)

[IUFAN1976 2,772]

8 hours ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Heh, I am not getting the bad joke.  I wish IU didn't get the last 20 years.  

In my pro-Hoosier opinion, IU screwed up not managing RMK before he and IU went off the rails.  IU screwed up by firing him after the double-secret probation they invoked on him.  Not only did they screw RMK and didn't stop him from screwing himself and IU, but they stuck a fork in the future by letting the players pick the next coach.  

Because the management was so messed up about those two coaches and the downward trend of wins, the Board of Trustees imposed Sampson on IU.  I see this as screwed up.  In many ways.

And the lack of institutional control as the above post calls it followed and is just like the lack of control on RMK.  That was a continuous series of screwup after screwup. 

They have been reacting instead of acting as far as coach hirings for way too long.  Until Woodsen.  I hope.

 

This comes down to one thing, Miles Brand’s agenda to make a name for himself.  He didn’t care about the fallout, the university or the basketball program.  He wasn’t about to give RMK any rope or leeway, he put the zero tolerance on him knowing he would mess up.  Also, the biggest conspiracy theory in this was RMK was totally setup & provoked with that student.  If that was the truth, Miles Brand was probably the one who set it up!  
 

Mike Davis should have been the interim coach that first year then they should of hired a more experienced and better coach, instead here we are!