Xavier Arrested...

[Chris007]

2 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

Huh?  I never said just because JHS is coming in that X should be suspended.  I just suggested that X should be suspended and it puts his starting position in question.  I would love to see JHS take advantage and run with it.

JHS is coming in to be the starting PG. X is currently the starting PG. He may be suspended for a couple of games but he will be back in the starting lineup. For us to be our best they both have to be starters

[Stuhoo]

14 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

JHS is coming in to be the starting PG. X is currently the starting PG. He may be suspended for a couple of games but he will be back in the starting lineup. For us to be our best they both have to be starters

 

Because multiple pick and roll guards with quick big that rim runs and a quick big that can pop, plus a wing shooter makes Stuhoo happy!

(X, JHS, TJD, JG, and TB y'all)

[Chris007]

16 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Because multiple pick and roll guards with quick big that rim runs and a quick big that can pop, plus a wing shooter makes Stuhoo happy!

(X, JHS, TJD, JG, and TB y'all)

When Stuhoo is happy were all happy

[RaceToTheTop]

6 hours ago, Honkyman said:

One of those "replaceable guys" was McDonald's All American Tommy Baker, the point guard, who came to IU the same time as Ray Tolbert. Baker played overseas during the summer on an All Star team that included future NBA stars Magic Johnson and Darnell Valentine. After getting booted by Knight, he played for Eastern Michigan where he was All-Conference. He was drafted by San Antonio but never played in the NBA (he was only 6').  In a sense all college players are replaceable since eventually they graduate or otherwise leave. Baker had not reached his potential at IU, but he was a pretty good player. Eventually he would have been replaced by Isiah Thomas who arrived a year later. But if Baker had stayed, he would have been a member of the 1981 championship team and even as back-up to Thomas would have been remember fondly rather than as so dismissively by brumdog45.

What the hell?  You took a quote from someone else and attributed it to me.

[Honkyman]

11 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

What the hell?  You took a quote from someone else and attributed it to me.

I'm sorry. Early morning post. Must have been still partly asleep.

[Honkyman]

3 hours ago, Woodson1980 said:

Eastern Ky not Mich.

You are right. I knew that. Don't know why I wrote Michigan.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 minute ago, Honkyman said:

You are right. I knew that. Don't know why I wrote Michigan.

Baker also averaged over 3 turnovers in 17 minutes his one year at IU and Wittman came in the next year (and Butch Carter was still there as well).  Baker being dismissed was really a non factor.

[Honkyman]

8 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Baker being dismissed was really a non factor.

Baker played no worse than Tolbert did at that time. It took Tolbert a couple of years before he became a reliable player. Your claim that Knight dismissed expendable players is simply made up. Besides, it accomplishes nothing to gratuitously trash former players. 

[Golfman25]

So a couple of days with no news.  Is this a non event that will be handled internally?  I would think if he’s gone it would have been done by now?

[Chris007]

Just now, Golfman25 said:

So a couple of days with no news.  Is this a non event that will be handled internally?  I would think if he’s gone it would have been done by now?

I think they will probably let the court system handle it first then, Woodson will decide which way to go. 1-3 games and lots of stairs

[HoosierTrav]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

JHS is coming in to be the starting PG. X is currently the starting PG. He may be suspended for a couple of games but he will be back in the starting lineup. For us to be our best they both have to be starters

Agree

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

6 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Baker played no worse than Tolbert did at that time. It took Tolbert a couple of years before he became a reliable player. Your claim that Knight dismissed expendable players is simply made up. Besides, it accomplishes nothing to gratuitously trash former players. 

You could never be more wrong about Tolbert.

His and Baker’s freshman year (1977-78) he was one of only 3 players to play all 29 games, starting 28; he averaged 10.1 ppg (3rd on team) and led IU in rebounding with 6.9 rpg (Baker, for comparison, played in 28, starting 7; averaged 3.1 ppg, 1.6 assists per game and 3.1 TO/gm).

The following season (when Baker was sent packing) Tolbert was 2nd in scoring at 12.0 ppg and again was the leading rebounder at a 7.1 clip. Baker was so insignificant I couldn’t find stats on him from anywhere.

Tolbert for his IU career averaged 11.2 ppg on 52% shooting from the field and 6.9 rpg. He on a distinguished list of Hoosiers to average in double figures in scoring all 4 years.

Just how damn reliable did you want the guy to be?? Ray did it all.

[Honkyman]

I was referencing turnovers. Tolbert and Baker turned it over the same number of times per game although Baker handled the ball more.

[Tasmanian Devil]

17 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

I was referencing turnovers. Tolbert and Baker turned it over the same number of times per game although Baker handled the ball more.

No, they didn’t.

Baker averaged 3.1 TO/gm while playing an average of 17 minutes per game. Tolbert had 2.1 TO/gm while playing 31 minutes/gm, 2nd most minutes played on the team.

Meaning Ray avg a turnover a little under every 15 minutes he played - while Baker had one a little bit under every 6 minutes he was on the floor.

Handling the ball more doesn’t account for Baker having a TO rate over 2-1/2 times greater that Tolbert. It has to do with Tolbert was a MUCH more reliable player at IU than Baker ever was.

[Honkyman]

6 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

It has to do with Tolbert was a MUCH more reliable player at IU than Baker ever was.

Of course, he was. Tolbert played four years and Baker played barely over one year. My point was not to quibble about Ray Tolbert. It was to disagree that Knight dismissed players based on how "replaceable" they were as opposed to whether or not they had leveled with him about smoking dope. No player is irreplaceable and obviously all eventually have to be replaced. The implication of the comment was that Knight got rid of a few bench players while keeping the starters. Tommy Baker was not only a starter, as a McDonald's All American who had been selected with Magic Johnson to play on an All Star team overseas, he was a player with real potential. Of course, IU did fine after he left. After all, Mike Woodson was the star player on that team--even if he did smoke a little pot now and then.

[Tasmanian Devil]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

Of course, he was. Tolbert played four years and Baker played barely over one year. My point was not to quibble about Ray Tolbert. It was to disagree that Knight dismissed players based on how "replaceable" they were as opposed to whether or not they had leveled with him about smoking dope. No player is irreplaceable and obviously all eventually have to be replaced. The implication of the comment was that Knight got rid of a few bench players while keeping the starters. Tommy Baker was not only a starter, as a McDonald's All American who had been selected with Magic Johnson to play on an All Star team overseas, he was a player with real potential. Of course, IU did fine after he left. After all, Mike Woodson was the star player on that team--even if he did smoke a little pot now and then.

Knight tossed 3 guys: Baker, senior Jim Roberson and sophomore Don Cox. Baker was the “best” player of the 3, but was certainly expendable by his production (or lack thereof).

Only player I’ve ever known Knight to send packing that was a major contributor was Mike Giomi.

[Chris007]

Just now, Tasmanian Devil said:

Knight tossed 3 guys: Baker, senior Jim Roberson and sophomore Don Cox. Baker was the “best” player of the 3, but was certainly expendable by his production (or lack thereof).

Only player I’ve ever known Knight to send packing that was a major contributor was Mike Giomi.

There were always rumors of Giomi being extra friendly with Knights's wife. I was only a kid, but remember hearing my parents talk about it.

[Honkyman]

4 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Only player I’ve ever known Knight to send packing that was a major contributor was Mike Giomi.

Sherron Wilkerson was the starting point guard in 1996 when he was dismissed by Knight after being arrested for domestic battery. Several good players have left because they didn't get along with Knight, e.g., Ricky Calloway started on the 1987 championship team and then transferred to Kansas.

[Chris007]

5 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Sherron Wilkerson was the starting point guard in 1996 when he was dismissed by Knight after being arrested for domestic battery. Several good players have left because they didn't get along with Knight, e.g., Ricky Calloway started on the 1987 championship team and then transferred to Kansas.

Calloway transferred because he didn't like Knight.

After the incident with Wilkerson, Knight had a team meeting where he told the whole team what happened. He then told the team that it was a democracy and they were going to vote whether Sherron should be kept or not. Then he said remember I get to vote and my vote counts more than yours. He was then voted off the team.

Pat Knight went back to his apartment that night and told his roommate (a current Indy radio host) the secret about Sherron and told him to not tell anyone. The roommate went into his bedroom, called a family friend who was a local Indy sports anchor, and said I have news that no one else will have tonight, what will you give me for it? He got front row tickets for the Jordan & the Bulls vs the Pacers the next week. Channel 6 was the only news station that had the Sherron story on the 11 o'clock news that night. 

[RaceToTheTop]

22 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Knight tossed 3 guys: Baker, senior Jim Roberson and sophomore Don Cox. Baker was the “best” player of the 3, but was certainly expendable by his production (or lack thereof).

Only player I’ve ever known Knight to send packing that was a major contributor was Mike Giomi.

Yeah, I'm not getting the Baker love.  He wasn't going to get on the court hardly at all.  When Wittman came in the next year, that gave IU Carter, Wittman, and Woodson at the guard/wing positsions.  They combined for 106 minutes per game.