General Coach Candidate News

[Chris007 44,151]

17 hours ago, Kentuckysucks said:

I just disagree.  Year 3 is usually when good coaches get you rolling.  They almost never take a step back.  Look at the current ISU coach.  Heck Archie had is in the dance in year 3 had it not been cancelled.

I know this won't be popular but Trayce coming back for 2 more years likely did more damage than good for the program.  Woody would've been on the hot seat last year otherwise and certainly fired after this season.  

How many injuries has ISU dealt with this season? 

[Chris007 44,151]

17 hours ago, Kentuckysucks said:

Hasn't hurt other programs.  OSU fired Matta for one bad season with a HOF caliber record.  Howland went to 3 FFs in 4 years.  Got fired.  Alford went to 3 S16s in 4 years.  Fired.  We could go on and on.

IUs biggest mistake besides hiring incompetent coaches is that we hold onto them way too long.  Woody is about 66.  Regardless of what happens he's gone in the next few years.

So all of those coaches got 4 years?

[str8baller 5,336]

24 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

So all of those coaches got 4 years?

Gillispie didn’t. Doherty didn’t. Only guys that won immediately got 4 years. Nobody allows 4 years of crap. 
 

none of those guys got more than a couple years once things started to go south. Tubby had a title under his belt. Had a 30 win season and a couple 1 and 2 seeds seasons and then was thrown out immediately after he “fell” to two seasons where he was only an 8 seed. 

[Uspshoosier 45,976]

8 hours ago, str8baller said:

Gillispie didn’t. Doherty didn’t. Only guys that won immediately got 4 years. Nobody allows 4 years of crap. 
 

none of those guys got more than a couple years once things started to go south. Tubby had a title under his belt. Had a 30 win season and a couple 1 and 2 seeds seasons and then was thrown out immediately after he “fell” to two seasons where he was only an 8 seed. 

Each case is different and there are more reasons than wins and losses as to why coaches get fired.   Howland getting fired from ucla had more to do with the fact he ticked off AAU and high school coaches in  California.  They thought his offense stunk and him pulling a scholly from a local kid really pissed them off.    He was forced to recruit outside the state or lower level in state kids.    

[JF87 1,492]

10 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Gillispie didn’t. Doherty didn’t. Only guys that won immediately got 4 years. Nobody allows 4 years of crap. 
 

none of those guys got more than a couple years once things started to go south. Tubby had a title under his belt. Had a 30 win season and a couple 1 and 2 seeds seasons and then was thrown out immediately after he “fell” to two seasons where he was only an 8 seed. 

Woodson is going to get a minimum of 4 years.  Heck, the administration just gave him a raise.  I personally don't think he's the right guy, but I have to acknowledge a beloved former player is going to be given time.  Woodson's situation is different than a former player like Kenny Payne at Louisville because Woodson has displayed some success (although I believe that we have underperformed). Payne's tenure has been a complete disaster. 

I hope that we've seen Woodson willing to adapt in the last couple of games.  He seems to have shortened the bench and stopped the hockey line shifts.  The last few games, there seems to be more of an emphasis on defending 3-point shooters.  Last game we even shot 22 threes.  If these are anomalies or strategic changes remains to be seen?  While we ride out Woodson's time, we are going to have to hope he continues to improve as a college coach. 

[8bucks 6,476]

41 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Gillispie didn’t. Doherty didn’t. Only guys that won immediately got 4 years. Nobody allows 4 years of crap. 
 

none of those guys got more than a couple years once things started to go south. Tubby had a title under his belt. Had a 30 win season and a couple 1 and 2 seeds seasons and then was thrown out immediately after he “fell” to two seasons where he was only an 8 seed. 

Gillespie also, reportedly, had some DUI issues to go along with a bad season in 2008.  But UK had an easy out as Billy never signed a contract for some reason.  He did make one NCAA tournament, then the NIT the next year and he may not have been having much recruiting success (not sure on that though).  But he made it too easy to get rid of him.  Woody is different since he is a former player and had success his first two years (not enough certainly, but a good start).  

Still a lot of season left to determine how things are here.  If we play poorly down the stretch and recruiting looks dismal then things could happen.  At this point of year 3, there is enough to raise some concerns, but not enough to warrant his firing.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,551]

9 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Gillespie also, reportedly, had some DUI issues to go along with a bad season in 2008.  But UK had an easy out as Billy never signed a contract for some reason.  He did make one NCAA tournament, then the NIT the next year and he may not have been having much recruiting success (not sure on that though).  But he made it too easy to get rid of him.  Woody is different since he is a former player and had success his first two years (not enough certainly, but a good start).  

Still a lot of season left to determine how things are here.  If we play poorly down the stretch and recruiting looks dismal then things could happen.  At this point of year 3, there is enough to raise some concerns, but not enough to warrant his firing.

The fact that getting blown out in the round of 64 and then in the round of 32 with one of the best players in college basketball is considered success for IU basketball shows how down bad the program is. Archie being so god awful makes anything above incompetence look good.  If IU accepts that it’s a middle of the pack program then sure, no reason to fire Woodson. If IU wants to be a top-tier program, though? Well, that’s another story. 

[go iu bb 6,228]

36 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Each case is different and there are more reasons than wins and losses as to why coaches get fired.   Howland getting fired from ucla had more to do with the fact he ticked off AAU and high school coaches in the California.  They thought his offense stunk and him pulling a scholly from a local kid really pissed them off.    He was forced to recruit outside the state or lower level in state kids.    

IIRC with Howland, there was also some internal drama.

[8bucks 6,476]

36 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The fact that getting blown out in the round of 64 and then in the round of 32 with one of the best players in college basketball is considered success for IU basketball shows how down bad the program is. Archie being so god awful makes anything above incompetence look good.  If IU accepts that it’s a middle of the pack program then sure, no reason to fire Woodson. If IU wants to be a top-tier program, though? Well, that’s another story. 

Well, now i do not think anyone is planning a parade yet.  From where we were under Archie, yes it was a success and that best player got significantly better after Woody came.  I certainly have doubts on whether he is the guy but time has to play out some more.

[realTomCrean 1,543]

Ball is in Woody's court. Winning will solve all and shut all most mouths. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,551]

5 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Well, now i do not think anyone is planning a parade yet.  From where we were under Archie, yes it was a success and that best player got significantly better after Woody came.  I certainly have doubts on whether he is the guy but time has to play out some more.

Why do we have to wait for time to play out? Woodson turns 66 next month. It’s not like we’re talking about waiting to see if a guy who could be our coach for the 20+ years figures things out. Even in the best outcome, Woodson only has a few years left here. You don’t want your “bridge guy” to end up burning the bridge down. 

[TTT 962]

Josh Schertz / Indiana State “coaches can’t win any games, we can only lose them.”

IU’s next coach does not need to be somebody famous nor does it need someone who has already accomplished on big time level.  They will gladly take the money just as Woodson and his court are doing now.  Sure they will want to win and try some but if things don’t work out…well, that was a nice little gig for that time in my life.

IU men’s basketball needs a coach with a burning desire deep down in his heart that knows what he is doing creating that you know it’s IU basketball winning image and it hardly ever loses.

[8bucks 6,476]

2 minutes ago, TTT said:

Josh Schertz / Indiana State “coaches can’t win any games, we can only lose them.”

IU’s next coach does not need to be somebody famous nor does it need someone who has already accomplished on big time level.  They will gladly take the money just as Woodson and his court are doing now.  Sure they will want to win and try some but if things don’t work out…well, that was a nice little gig for that time in my life.

IU men’s basketball needs a coach with a burning desire deep down in his heart that knows what he is doing creating that you know it’s IU basketball winning image and it hardly ever loses.

Finding that gem among the unprovens is not very easy.  And I am sure the admin hiring committee asks what the coaches vision is for building this and come away convinced they have that deep down passion.  Sampson said he would "walk on glass" for the job, Crean came in with a huge presentation, binders and sold them that he had that because "it's Indiana".  I am sure Woody sold them on playing for RMK, coaching in the NBA, had Carmello tell them how great he was with players and had a vision too.

Getting a guy that can cast a vision and then put it into place without demonstrated success at the big time level is a hope filled strategy.  It could work or they might just be a great "used car salesmen" who is great at telling a story.

[TTT 962]

8 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Finding that gem among the unprovens is not very easy.  And I am sure the admin hiring committee asks what the coaches vision is for building this and come away convinced they have that deep down passion.  Sampson said he would "walk on glass" for the job, Crean came in with a huge presentation, binders and sold them that he had that because "it's Indiana".  I am sure Woody sold them on playing for RMK, coaching in the NBA, had Carmello tell them how great he was with players and had a vision too.

Getting a guy that can cast a vision and then put it into place without demonstrated success at the big time level is a hope filled strategy.  It could work or they might just be a great "used car salesmen" who is great at telling a story.

Woodson probably didn’t really have to sell himself that much.  But his work in NBA whether one would conclude good or bad or average which I would conclude as average is not equating to any kind of solid success (performance) at the college level.  That goes for the entirety of what an elite college basketball program Image should be.  Currently, the entirety of IU men’s basketball program is struggling to be average.

[Hornsby 2,088]

The fact that getting blown out in the round of 64 and then in the round of 32 with one of the best players in college basketball is considered success for IU basketball shows how down bad the program is. Archie being so god awful makes anything above incompetence look good.  If IU accepts that it’s a middle of the pack program then sure, no reason to fire Woodson. If IU wants to be a top-tier program, though? Well, that’s another story. 

I think it's becoming clear those results are just fine given the raise and happiness of many fans with woodson We probably will just have to accept this is what iu is going to be going forward.. Might get lucky once in a great moon and make a sweet sixteen possibly.   In hindsight crean should never have been fired given we aren't that serious of a program. He could make the occasional sweet sixeteen at least.

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[str8baller 5,336]

3 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Each case is different and there are more reasons than wins and losses as to why coaches get fired.   Howland getting fired from ucla had more to do with the fact he ticked off AAU and high school coaches in the California.  They thought his offense stunk and him pulling a scholly from a local kid really pissed them off.    He was forced to recruit outside the state or lower level in state kids.    

I agree with this and what a couple others posted about circumstances being unique in each case. I just don’t think there’s anyone to pull up comparables and say IU has ever acted too quickly.  
 

Davis and Crean both annoyed the local recruiting base, but IU stuck with them long past when most reasonable people know they weren’t the next big coach.  
 

Doherty probably got the worst deal with a depleted roster causing his bad year and then  him having brought in the recruiting class that would be Roy’s first title team. Yet through back channels they knew Roy had changed his mind and would accept their offer to come back. So they axed him after 3 years, even when notable alumni like Jordan expressed some support for Doherty.  But…3 National Titles later nobody cries for Matt Doherty. He’s probably lucky if his invitation to alumni events doesn’t get lost in the mail. 
 

It’s a cut throat business. IU’s aww shucks Mr. Magoo approach doesn’t stand a chance absent some stroke of blind luck. 
 

To wit: Today, the B1G and SEC just announced that in essence they are asserting control over major college sports. The NCAA and other conferences be damned. Beyond coaching searches, it would be cool if IU were a leading voice in this new landscape instead of just tagging along, happy to be here. But honestly, I’d settle for a successful basketball coaching search. 

[str8baller 5,336]

3 hours ago, 8bucks said:

Gillespie also, reportedly, had some DUI issues to go along with a bad season in 2008.  

 

3 hours ago, go iu bb said:

IIRC with Howland, there was also some internal drama.

You guys are right, but I’d just like to point out two things.  
 

1) lots of coaches have these issues. If you win the fans never hear about them or dismiss them as irrelevant, and

2) it’s really easy for an Athletic Dept to push these media narratives, or even feed the stories to friendly outlets, once they make a firing.   
 

IU probably never expected some dope like Goodman to stick up for Archie, but we were still caught flatfooted with that media narrative. They should’ve had Rabjohns and a couple of others loaded with stories about how Archie was a malcontent, didn’t connect with alumni, couldn’t recruit, etc…  Instead we get painted as unrealistic lunatics of a fallen program that doesn’t deserve better than Archie. The little media battles matter for perception’s sake, especially if you don’t have a new coach signed up yet. 
 

 

[Hornsby 2,088]

I agree with this and what a couple others posted about circumstances being unique in each case. I just don’t think there’s anyone to pull up comparables and say IU has ever acted too quickly.  
 
Davis and Crean both annoyed the local recruiting base, but IU stuck with them long past when most reasonable people know they weren’t the next big coach.  
 
Doherty probably got the worst deal with a depleted roster causing his bad year and then  him having brought in the recruiting class that would be Roy’s first title team. Yet through back channels they knew Roy had changed his mind and would accept their offer to come back. So they axed him after 3 years, even when notable alumni like Jordan expressed some support for Doherty.  But…3 National Titles later nobody cries for Matt Doherty. He’s probably lucky if his invitation to alumni events doesn’t get lost in the mail. 
 
It’s a cut throat business. IU’s aww shucks Mr. Magoo approach doesn’t stand a chance absent some stroke of blind luck. 
 
To wit: Today, the B1G and SEC just announced that in essence they are asserting control over major college sports. The NCAA and other conferences be damned. Beyond coaching searches, it would be cool if IU were a leading voice in this new landscape instead of just tagging along, happy to be here. But honestly, I’d settle for a successful basketball coaching search. 

IU is probably a good gig for some cause the admins won't act fast. Crean and Davis perfect examples. I was honestly stunned they didn't give archie a 5th year. I thought for sure they would bring him back cause that's what IU does.

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[str8baller 5,336]

16 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

IU is probably a good gig for some cause the admins won't act fast. Crean and Davis perfect examples. I was honestly stunned they didn't give archie a 5th year. I thought for sure they would bring him back cause that's what IU does.

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Missing 4 straight tournaments is a lot even for our administration. It hasn’t happened since before Knight. And no single coach had missed 4 straight since the 60’s under McCracken, but I think you still had to win the conference back then to get an invite.   
 

It’s damn near unthinkable for a program of our stature in a 68 team field. It hasn’t happened to Purdue since the mid 70’s when the field was much smaller.  

[TTT 962]

Josh Schertz Indiana State Connect’s to fans and players.  His success is a double edged sword for Indiana State.