The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?

[Chris007]

2 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

You are right to a degree, but ultimately it is all about the coach. Even if we blame the players (believe me, I have called them some unspeakable names this season) at the end of the day it is still Archie's responsibility, he is the constant. The players aren't listening or giving effort, adopted your culture or whatever? That is on him. I am not saying it's easy and it's cliched to say "Do you think Coach X puts up with this $h!t?".....but do you? How does Cal get effort from his soulless mercenaries every season? He may not be brilliant, but those vermin play hard even though they get everything handed to them by the toothless hilljack knob-slobbers down there. Coach the players you got. If they aren't good enough make them better or go get better ones (talent, attitude or both) that is what the coach is for. 

What bothers me most is these are the same excuses we heard under Crean and sometimes they are legit, but at some point it doesn't matter- WIN GAMES. 

I understand what you're saying and agree it's on Archie either gets it done or someone else will try. I was here with Crean, I'm here now, I'm here till my lottery ticket comes in or retirement. But as I said in a previous post those guys at UK are playing hard because they are playing for draft status. They are playing for how much of a contract their going to get next year or endorsements 

[Hillsdale87]

Wichita state only missed the tournament this year. I think they had been every year since 2011. No team makes the tournament every year. He's has a very good track record though.

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I guarantee you that if Archie was still at Dayton then they would have made it the last 2 years too. Building a program takes time.


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[Hillsdale87]

I do not think he was that far off talking about how the program should be established by now in year two.

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He inherited a team that had lost its best 3 players after losing in the NIT. Then in year 1 he didn't get a chance to bring in his own players and had a missing class. In year 2 he brought in a good class that ended up being crushed by injuries with Thompson, Hunter, and Rob missing significant time.

So he inherited a bad team and didn't have a chance to upgrade the talent in year one. A reasonable expectation would have been for that team to be worse than the team the year before. He upgraded the talent in this recruiting class, but between injuries and the fact that freshmen generally aren't counted on to be impact players, they didn't turn the team around. Also not that surprising... Don't get me wrong, I think this year should have gone better. But it's not like Archie is working with a veteran roster that he's had a chance to mold. His veterans are largely middling, and the young guys lack experience


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[Bailey7878]

He inherited a team that had lost its best 3 players after losing in the NIT. Then in year 1 he didn't get a chance to bring in his own players and had a missing class. In year 2 he brought in a good class that ended up being crushed by injuries with Thompson, Hunter, and Rob missing significant time.

So he inherited a bad team and didn't have a chance to upgrade the talent in year one. A reasonable expectation would have been for that team to be worse than the team the year before. He upgraded the talent in this recruiting class, but between injuries and the fact that freshmen generally aren't counted on to be impact players, they didn't turn the team around. Also not that surprising... Don't get me wrong, I think this year should have gone better. But it's not like Archie is working with a veteran roster that he's had a chance to mold. His veterans are largely middling, and the young guys lack experience


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The jury is out onif he upgraded talent alot. Romeo and Rob played but anderson, moore, and jake could not even get off the bench. Archie needs to produce next year period. Why do it feel like the twilight zone and we are having another crean honeymoon???

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[Hillsdale87]

The jury is out onif he upgraded talent alot. Romeo and Rob played but anderson, moore, and jake could not even get off the bench. Archie needs to produce next year period. Why do it feel like the twilight zone and we are having another crean honeymoon???

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He's not responsible for Moore. He was a Crean recruit. Jake was never expected to contribute this year. We can only go off recruiting rankings, but i expect Hunter and Race to be good players too. Archie has signed a total of 8 recruits. 6 were top 100 and 2 were McD AAs. He's getting players. Let's see what he can do with them before judging his coaching ability off of the prior coach's recruits.

Excluding the freshmen, this year's team had 2 top 100 recruits (Smith and Davis), and Davis couldn't play like one because of his injury. This team just didn't have a lot of talent.


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[Chris007]

18 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

The jury is out onif he upgraded talent alot. Romeo and Rob played but anderson, moore, and jake could not even get off the bench. Archie needs to produce next year period. Why do it feel like the twilight zone and we are having another crean honeymoon???

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He didn't bring in Moore. Also Moore's family said he couldn't redshirt him. 

[Bailey7878]

He's not responsible for Moore. He was a Crean recruit. Jake was never expected to contribute this year. We can only go off recruiting rankings, but i expect Hunter and Race to be good players too. Archie has signed a total of 8 recruits. 6 were top 100 and 2 were McD AAs. He's getting players. Let's see what he can do with them before judging his coaching ability off of the prior coach's recruits.

Excluding the freshmen, this year's team had 2 top 100 recruits (Smith and Davis), and Davis couldn't play like one because of his injury. This team just didn't have a lot of talent.


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Huh?? He took moore just like he took al and justin. Is he not responsible for them either??

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[Bailey7878]

He didn't bring in Moore. Also Moore's family said he couldn't redshirt him. 

Then he should of cut moore lose. He is his player now.

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[Honkyman]

The coach is responsible for everyone on the team whether he recruited them or not. Its his team. Miller pushed one player out when he came aboard and he could have pushed Moore out as well if he didn't think he had the potential to help the team. As for talent this year, this year's team had a top ten recruit,  an all Big Ten player, two top 100 players and several players ranked just on the other side of the top 100. IU had more talent than several of the teams that defeated them. This year's team had enough talent to make the NCAA tournament (and should have) as evidenced by some of the teams they beat, including crushing Marquette and defeating Michigan State twice. Teams without talent don't beat the teams they beat.

[Bailey7878]

The coach is responsible for everyone on the team whether he recruited them or not. Its his team. Miller pushed one player out when he came aboard and he could have pushed Moore out as well if he didn't think he had the potential to help the team. As for talent this year, this year's team had a top ten recruit,  an all Big Ten player, two top 100 players and several players ranked just on the other side of the top 100. IU had more talent than several of the teams that defeated them. This year's team had enough talent to make the NCAA tournament (and should have) as evidenced by some of the teams they beat, including crushing Marquette and defeating Michigan State twice. Teams without talent don't beat the teams they beat.

Yep in fact he could have pushed all three out and brought in mckinely wright, etc. I want him to succeed but i am not giving him an excuse on players he chose to keep. Im sick of coaching searches but archie needs to produce next year.

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[southsidehoosier]

Yep in fact he could have pushed all three out and brought in mckinely wright, etc. I want him to succeed but i am not giving him an excuse on players he chose to keep. Im sick of coaching searches but archie needs to produce next year.

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Wouldn’t pushing them out have affected our APR?


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[RaceToTheTop]

FWIW, Archie did let one of Crean's players know that he was better off going elsewhere (Gelon Grant).  I'm not a big fan of a coach coming and just cleaning the roster out.  If guys leave, fine.  But telling three guys to 'hit the highway' isn't sending a good message.

In case anyone is interested, Gelon Grant played a semester of junior college ball, signed at SW Misdouri State...they fired their coach, he decommitted and got Ouf of basketball altogether for a year.  Believe he is playing NAIA ball next year at Bellarmine.

[Bailey7878]

Wouldn’t pushing them out have affected our APR?


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Not sure but they had not taken classes here yet plus during a coaching change you usually get to leave without sitting out a year. So I am not sure how it would have affected it.

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[Bailey7878]

FWIW, Archie did let one of Archie's players know that he was better off going elsewhere (Gelon Grant).  I'm not a big fan of a coach coming and just cleaning the roster out.  If guys leave, fine.  But telling three guys to 'hit the highway' isn't sending a good message.

You can say you dont fit my system. They can take a hint. Four alabama players are already transferring due to the change. Its not uncommon.

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[Honkyman]

How could it impact the APR? Those three recruits were not yet enrolled at IU. The point is Miller could have pushed one or more additional recruits out (in addition to Grant Gelon) and brought in players he recruited himself. But he chose to keep those three and who can blame him? All three have talent. He was familiar with Al and Justin having seen them play on the recruiting trail. And, Al and Justin have been regular contributors. It is only Moore who has sat on the bench although this past year he didn't look too bad when he played and played hard.

[RaceToTheTop]

2 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

You can say you dont fit my system. They can take a hint. Four alabama players are already transferring due to the change. Its not uncommon.

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They haven't been told they don't fit the system.  No coach is in place.  And no coach coming in would tell Kira Lewis that.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 minute ago, Honkyman said:

How could it impact the APR? Those three recruits were not yet enrolled at IU. The point is Miller could have pushed one or more additional recruits out (in addition to Grant Gelon) and brought in players he recruited himself. But he chose to keep those three and who can blame him? All three have talent. He was familiar with Al and Justin having seen them play on the recruiting trail. And, Al and Justin have been regular contributors. It is only Moore who has sat on the bench although this past year he didn't look too bad when he played and played hard.

I think people are being revisionist on Moore.  Moore was definitely more heavily recruited nationally than Al was.

[Hovadipo]

1 minute ago, brumdog45 said:

I think people are being revisionist on Moore.  Moore was definitely more heavily recruited nationally than Al was.

And was also on future NBA draft boards coming in. There was some real hype around him. New coach comes in and runs him off...how does the fanbase react to that?

It’s easy to come take over a job on a message board 2 years later, though. 

[Bailey7878]

The point is saying these are not archies guys is absurb. He has coached them for two years and they have played for no other coach. I mean the could of left at anytime but choose to stay. They never played one second under crean.

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[Bailey7878]

And was also on future NBA draft boards coming in. There was some real hype around him. New coach comes in and runs him off...how does the fanbase react to that?
It’s easy to come take over a job on a message board 2 years later, though. 

Its not running him off its having a very honest conversation about your potential playing time, etc. But obviously archie thought all three could play so they became his guys. DD and Green are the only ones left who played for crean.

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