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JaybobHoosier

The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?

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27 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Everybody agreed at the time that Holtmann had a worse hand. 7 scholarship players and less time. Your just revising history to try and fit your narrative. Had Archie developed his players like Holtmann has we would be fine right now. 

Look at the players. He was allowed to bring in his guys. Archie had to play the hand dealt. I said from the get go Underwood, Miller, Holtmann from worst situation to best. 

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OSU disagrees. Tourney in year one. Texas Tech and Arizona also made the tourney in year 2. 
A 1-12 stretch is hardly growing pains when the rest of the year is 16-4. That’s a coach that can’t control his team. 

You’re pointing to unique situations and calling it the norm and then making bold generalizations about a situation none of us have much insight into.

In that 1-12 stretch there were plenty of games we were going to struggle to win even if we were playing together. Losses plus chemistry issues equal the disastrous losses we also experienced.

All that 1-12 stretch told me is that something went off the rails, and that Archie and the team got back on track at the end of the year.


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You’re pointing to unique situations and calling it the norm and then making bold generalizations about a situation none of us have much insight into.

In that 1-12 stretch there were plenty of games we were going to struggle to win even if we were playing together. Losses plus chemistry issues equal the disastrous losses we also experienced.

All that 1-12 stretch told me is that something went off the rails, and that Archie and the team got back on track at the end of the year.


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You would think some who are pointing to the 18-4 mark would have more optimism for next season than that 1-12 stretch with injuries, suspensions, and whatever the hell else was going on.

I don’t think we are anywhere near as bad as that 1-12 stretch but don’t think we were near as good as that 18-4 record either. 20 wins and an NCAA invite next season will make continue to believe the trajectory is where it should be with this program under Archie. I don’t think that’s crazy or impossible.


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You would think some who are pointing to the 18-4 mark would have more optimism for next season than that 1-12 stretch with injuries, suspensions, and whatever the hell else was going on.

I don’t think we are anywhere near as bad as that 1-12 stretch but don’t think we were near as good as that 18-4 record either. 20 wins and an NCAA invite next season will make continue to believe the trajectory is where it should be with this program under Archie. I don’t think that’s crazy or impossible.


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That 18-4 stretch also included 5-6 bad non-con teams, but even so, that’s about 12-4 against some real great teams including Duke at Cameron Indoor. I saw plenty in the 18-4 and 6-2 stretch to recognize we made improvements. That 1-12 stretch demonstrated that it was a fragile progress for a young team with potentially some serious chemistry issues.


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Watch this OSU building class. Liddell, Gaffney, Carton. Looking at adding a big physical center too. Watch out for this class to make noise.


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Hopefully for them it turns out better then their last top 5 class of Lyle, Giddens, Mitchell, Harris and Grandstaff


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6 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:


Year 4 is the time to panic? Asking for a friend.
 

It's ok, you can use my name.  They know lol.

I wish there was a guarantee on being patient with a coach.  Until then I'm going to pick at things.  Like gameday preparation issues.  How many more years do we have to watch that?  If it's just one more year, I'm starting firearchiemiller.com

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7 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

I don’t think people realize that there isn’t a one season fix and ultimatums are meaningless.

 

Three things:

You are right, a one season ultimatum is meaningless. In this case, however, year three will be upon us soon.

Your patience is admirable.

Are you available to conduct my year-end job review? It would be awesome if you could review my progress/job instead of my boss.  :) 

 

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4 hours ago, Feathery said:

Lol. OSU ha quality talent for Holtmann. Thad Matta left bc of health. He didn’t get fired for being crap. Holtmann walked into a much better situation than Archie. Just like Archie has a better situation than Underwood. 

Most pre season predictions in their first year disagree. They had IU around 5th in the BT and OSU 8-9.  Matta’s last two teams went to the NIT and then no tourney at all. 

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1 minute ago, DChoosier said:

Most pre season predictions in their first year disagree. They had IU around 5th in the BT and OSU 8-9.  Matta’s last two teams went to the NIT and then no tourney at all. 

So I get to brag I was right that I did from day 1 OSU was in better shape? Stop listening to writers or to staffers who vote for the coaches. Look at the rosters and coaching staffs style of play. Then make your own conclusions. OSU continued with their Butler style of play. IU was transitioning to a polar opposite style. The results played out as such. 

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6 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Most pre season predictions in their first year disagree. They had IU around 5th in the BT and OSU 8-9.  Matta’s last two teams went to the NIT and then no tourney at all. 

Marta’s teams went to the NIT not because they lacked talent, they lacked a healthy coach to lead them. 

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1 minute ago, Feathery said:

So I get to brag I was right that I did from day 1 OSU was in better shape? Stop listening to writers or to staffers who vote for the coaches. Look at the rosters and coaching staffs style of play. Then make your own conclusions. OSU continued with their Butler style of play. IU was transitioning to a polar opposite style. The results played out as such. 

Yes you can brag.

Thanks for the suggestions. In a million years I never would have thought to look at the rosters or staff :) 

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5 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Yes you can brag.

Thanks for the suggestions. In a million years I never would have thought to look at the rosters or staff :) 

Thanks  lol  

Then what argument are you making against Archie? He didn’t have an easier job than Holtmann. I just keep seeing people try to pile on archie when there isn’t need......yet. 

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3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I don’t think OSU was in better shape. Just Holtmann has done a better job getting his team. He lost his best player after year 1 and still made the tourney. Archie kept his best player and added a top 5 guy and it translated to one more win before the NIT 

I can see that argument. I do think Romeo was vastly overrated or he just played timid to protect himself from injury. Not sure which it is to be honest. 

Edit. There was rumblings that Romeo stayed at New Albany instead of going to a prep school to protect from getting exposed. Heard some theories about if he playing in Indy over NA, that he wouldn’t have come close to Damon or gotten all the hype. 

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Three things:
You are right, a one season ultimatum is meaningless. In this case, however, year three will be upon us soon.
Your patience is admirable.
Are you available to conduct my year-end job review? It would be awesome if you could review my progress/job instead of my boss.  :) 
 

It all depends what you’re asking someone to accomplish. We tasked Archie with a task that takes years. I don’t know how many. Some will accomplish this faster and some will accomplish it “on schedule”.


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27 minutes ago, Feathery said:

So I get to brag I was right that I did from day 1 OSU was in better shape? Stop listening to writers or to staffers who vote for the coaches. Look at the rosters and coaching staffs style of play. Then make your own conclusions. OSU continued with their Butler style of play. IU was transitioning to a polar opposite style. The results played out as such. 

Yeah, OSU playing well and IU struggling doesn’t necessarily tell me that Holtman overachieved and Archie underachieved, it tells me the people doing the picking were wrong. 

In my opinion there is no question that Holtman took over a better situation. 

1) Despite two down years, OSU has been a much better program than IU the last 10+ years and had an established culture. 

2) Holtman and Matta coach to the same style

3) OSU was bad Matta’s last year largely because their best player missed the entire season 

4) Holtman inherited Bates-Diop, Tate, Kam Williams, CJ Jackson, Andre Wesson and had Kaleb Wesson gifted to him in his first class. That is a very, very solid core

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38 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:


It all depends what you’re asking someone to accomplish. We tasked Archie with a task that takes years. I don’t know how many. Some will accomplish this faster and some will accomplish it “on schedule”.


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Two of the things I wanted was for them to play hard and make the tourney (not a long run) this year...especially when he  started with argueably 2 of the best 10-12 players in the Big Ten.  

I’m not saying fire him but am saying he did not meet expectations.  I could buy the injuries costing us the tourney but it’s still hard to ignore the lack of effort and think we should have won at least two of these 7 games (Rutgers/Minnesota/Iowa twice/Nebraska/Northwestern/OSU in BTT) which would have put us in the tourney.  If the team that beat MSU twice played with consistent effort they would have made the tourney. The “we just didn’t bring it”, “we came out flat” comments from players and coaches, after multiple games, was disheartening. 

Hopefully we have a positive, healthy season next year and at least one alpha dog/tough player helps drive these guys.

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1 hour ago, Feathery said:

I can see that argument. I do think Romeo was vastly overrated or he just played timid to protect himself from injury. Not sure which it is to be honest. 

Edit. There was rumblings that Romeo stayed at New Albany instead of going to a prep school to protect from getting exposed. Heard some theories about if he playing in Indy over NA, that he wouldn’t have come close to Damon or gotten all the hype. 

Whatever! Look at NA's schedule and opponents rankings over Romeo's time at New Albany. I will put them up against any of the schools schedules out of metro Indy.

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