Team Chemistry Issues?

[Hoosierfan2017 25,033]

3 minutes ago, theriverpilot said:

Something seems off here. Several reports of those that were at the game recounting the disrespectful behavior of the two yet the video doesn’t look damning at all. Could it be a case of only being able to see snippets in the video and not hearing dialogue between the two players and coaches?

The fact that there are several reports of the same thing makes me wonder if we’re missing something from the video


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Imo it's just that Green is an easy target to take frustrations out on due to his suspension and schizophrenic play. Nothing in the video seemed off to me. Coach Marshall seemed into it too. Was he exaggerating to mock the coaches? Maybe, I don't know. But tbh Green is one of the few players who seems like he cares at all about what happens on the court most of the time. 

[cappymo14 2,276]

Had to re-watch the game after reading all of this. The Devonte clip does look bad to me. I remember thinking at the time, how odd it was given the timing. The clip also cuts out at a critical point. The people who claim to have been in attendance, were all quite clear about what they saw. I believe them. Forget Green though man. During my whole entire re-watch I just couldn’t take my eyes off of Smith! He sat and pouted. He sat and did nothing. Several times, while the entire bench was up hoping a 3 would fall, he didn’t even stir. I am appalled by his behavior. He’s visible the entire 2nd half and I couldn’t take my eyes off him because it shocked me. Smith can not be allowed to play another minute of basketball wearing that jersey. And I really liked the kid. That’s a cancer. No doubt.

 

 

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[DChoosier 9,848]

Did the reason for the suspension ever come out?

[coonhounds 10,558]

Did the reason for the suspension ever come out?

It was implied it was pot. From posters on here. If you look I think there is a thread for it.

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[JaybobHoosier 13,192]

I must be out of touch, what's up with the story about a locker room fight?  Saw that in one of the posts in this thread. 

I have felt that Green and Smith would be gone anyway, regardless of what people are saying about them being cancers on the team.  These two just seem to greatly struggle with this system, and I think it's best for both parties to look elsewhere. 

[coonhounds 10,558]

Let's say green and Smith are toxic as it is being suggested why are they even seeing a second of action? If this just boiled over against Purdue than I would hope not see them again. I can't get behind the idea two guys are causing all our problems. If it is the case archie is a fool to ever play them again as you got to play guys who are happy and want to represent Indiana basketball.

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[IU Hoosier41 14,491]

4 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

Let's say green and Smith are toxic as it is being suggested why are they even seeing a second of action? If this just boiled over against Purdue than I would hope not see them again. I can't get behind the idea two guys are causing all our problems. If it is the case archie is a fool to ever play them again as you got to play guys who are happy and want to represent Indiana basketball.

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Can’t take an APR hit of them transferring immediately.  Gotta play and act like they wanna go somewhere else.  No questions asked. 

[HoosierFan1994 5,351]

12 hours ago, Chris007 said:

No, but had a close friend sitting right behind the bench tell me all about it this morning. I did see Green on TV get taken out early after a bad turnover and seemed to be jumping up down high fiving all of his teammates. I asked my friend about it, he said he was mocking the instructions of shaking everyone's hand when you come out. Also said they told him to sit between two coaches and he refused until Schilling grabbed him and put him in that seat. 

Thanks for the insight. Do you know anything about Damezi? He looked like he didn't care at all last night either.. maybe he always has that look. 

[Crimson and Cream 5,968]

12 hours ago, Chris007 said:

No, but had a close friend sitting right behind the bench tell me all about it this morning. I did see Green on TV get taken out early after a bad turnover and seemed to be jumping up down high fiving all of his teammates. I asked my friend about it, he said he was mocking the instructions of shaking everyone's hand when you come out. Also said they told him to sit between two coaches and he refused until Schilling grabbed him and put him in that seat. 

Yup I know the exactly play you're referring to. He had just committed one of his typical stupid turnovers and then the Purdue player fortunately stepped out of bounds. He was immediately benched (as he should have been) and the tv showed him smiling and high fiving guys. I was so confused. Now I get it. I think the fans would really respect and back Archie benching the problem players on this team, and I just wish he understood that.

[mdn82 26,344]

Can’t take an APR hit of them transferring immediately.  Gotta play and act like they wanna go somewhere else.  No questions asked. 

Good having you back man. Hope all is well.


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[IU Hoosier41 14,491]

5 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Good having you back man. Hope all is well.


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Now we’ll see if my life can allow me to stay around longer this time :)

[Red1 171]

14 hours ago, Stromboli said:

There's a fairly well known Harvard study about the net detriment caused by productive employees that are toxic.  So even though Green or Smith may produce from time to time, the negativity weighs down the entire team.  

 

I'm pretty pro-player in all situations.  But at this point, we are a losing program.  Justin "Low-Light Reel" Smith doesn't play for the team.  Devonte showed promise, but has never been good.  I have heard people fault Juwan, saying he's just not a good leader.  I think he is a very good leader.  But what can you do with an attitude issue like what Green or Smith have?  Is it really Juwan's fault?  What if Archie is a top 15 coach, but he just HAPPENED to have two program-tanking attitudes to deal with on his initial two rosters.  Is it possible?  I think we're all hoping so.  Last night I heard a rumor that Green has been outwardly hateful towards Romeo for most of the season, doesn't even make attempts to hide it.  I've told before of the HH dunk contest, when Romeo won basically on his celebrity rather than dunks, and Justin Smith was downright ugly about it.  He has some resentment.  

 

Our class balance will be off.  If Archie's system takes 3 years to implement, does it reset every time we lose the upperclassmen?  

 

Those of us supporting Archie see the same things as the guys whining for him to get canned.  At this point, I'm hoping that the Smith/Green theory is true, and that the removal of those guys will cure the chemistry issues.  And otherwise, this 3pt shooting MUST be an anomaly.  Some of these stat-lines are laughable.  When I saw Cline hit two of those off-balance 3s last night, I was mostly just envious.  Everyone already knows, the loss of an effective perimeter game is worse than just the missed shots, it's the resultant defenses packing the lane.  

 

For now, I'm going with the Job theory.  God himself is testing Archie.  He cursed him with plagues of attitudes and poor shooting.  Struck him down with concussions and blood clots and stretched thumb ligaments and deep thigh bruises.  Caused droughts of confidence.  Even blessed him with a Romeo just to have the team smite his success.  

 

Archie didn't have one good season at Dayton.  He had many.  Do we really think Archie isn't as good as Mark Turgeon or Tim Miles or Franimal?  No way.  I graded out Archie as a C last year, and took some flak for it.  This year has been arguably worse.  And I'm still rocksteady in Archie's corner.  

 

 

Great post

[Bailey7878 2,506]

Green and Smith are gone. Their blatant disrespect last night is terrible. Green was arguing with all the coaches every time he got taken out. Smith refused to look at or listen to any coach who tried to give him some coaching. His family has filled his head with crap that he should be scoring all of these points when he can't hit a jumper outside 5 feet. They both are so unhappy it is affecting the whole team. 

I guess i missed it but looks like we will have several grants to give this spring minimum.

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[Chris007 62,605]

10 hours ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

Thanks for the insight. Do you know anything about Damezi? He looked like he didn't care at all last night either.. maybe he always has that look. 

I do not but IMO I just don't see him being this level of a player. I know it's too soon and others don't like me saying it but I think he was a bad evaluation on the coaches part. 

[Ranger78 1,293]

17 hours ago, mdn82 said:

APR. Wait a month and then let him finish out the semester.


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You're right, but that would be a tough pill to swallow. I'm guessing Coach Miller has really struggled between APR concerns and concerns about loosing his team. A couple of bad apples can cause big issues with chemistry. And that's not just related to basketball teams...

It's unfortunate, I think Green has so much potential and I really thought he was going improve this year. 

[monskisprodigy 2,308]

12 hours ago, cappymo14 said:

Had to re-watch the game after reading all of this. The Devonte clip does look bad to me. I remember thinking at the time, how odd it was given the timing. The clip also cuts out at a critical point. The people who claim to have been in attendance, were all quite clear about what they saw. I believe them. Forget Green though man. During my whole entire re-watch I just couldn’t take my eyes off of Smith! He sat and pouted. He sat and did nothing. Several times, while the entire bench was up hoping a 3 would fall, he didn’t even stir. I am appalled by his behavior. He’s visible the entire 2nd half and I couldn’t take my eyes off him because it shocked me. Smith can not be allowed to play another minute of basketball wearing that jersey. And I really liked the kid. That’s a cancer. No doubt.

 

 

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I admit, the video does not look nearly as bad as it did in person. From my seats, it seemed clear it was done in a mocking manner, but we can argue this until the cows come home. The timing was very odd and awkward, and an assistant chased him down the hand shake line and drug him to a seat. I am not bringing this up because Devonte is an easy target as some have said. I am bringing this up because we have serious issues, including team chemistry / player attitude, and this fits that mold. I for one have never bashed him on this site, and truly want him to succeed, because we have seen the flashes of a player that can make a difference. But I am going to call out negative attitude whenever I see it, regardless of who the player is. 

Now regarding Justin, this is what I pointed out in my initial post. My wife literally only watched him the entire game, and noticed all of the items you point out in your post. His attitude was the worst I have seen in some time. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by monskisprodigy

[RatpigHoosier 1,022]

I admit, the video does not look nearly as bad as it did in person. From my seats, it seemed clear it was done in a mocking manner, but we can argue this until the cows come home. The timing was very odd and awkward, and an assistant chased him down the hand shake line and drug him to a seat. I am not bringing this up because Devonte is an easy target as some have said. I am bringing this up because we have serious issues, including team chemistry / player attitude, and this fits that mold. I for one have never bashed him on this site, and truly want him to succeed, because we have seen the flashes of a player that can make a difference. But I am going to call out negative attitude whenever I see it, regardless of who the player is. 
Now regarding Justin, this is what I pointed out in my initial post. My wife literally only watched him the entire game, and noticed all of the items you point out in your post. His attitude was the worst I have seen in some time. 

I think with what is being manifested on the court with his demeanor, coupled with the comments by his father that some have reported, the proverbial handwriting is on the wall with Smith. He will be gone this spring. I hope he finds a fit somewhere other than IU but I just don’t think he is a skilled basketball player.

I actually think Green is very skilled but has an air of rebel about him. Plus his situational awareness is lacking. If he could put it all together he could be very good, but I fear that won’t happen at IU or anywhere else.


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[RatpigHoosier 1,022]

I did a cursory search for his dad’s comments and can’t find anything. Does anyone have a link?


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[reconmkd 4,750]

1 minute ago, RatpigHoosier said:

I did a cursory search for his dad’s comments and can’t find anything. Does anyone have a link?


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He deleted all of the tweets, however, there are some screen shots posted somewhere on the boards don't remember what thread though.

[IU Hoosier41 14,491]

I did a cursory search for his dad’s comments and can’t find anything. Does anyone have a link?


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