Michigan - IUBB Postgame Thread

[Adillac 953]

That does look ugly lol

[LamarCheeks 18,142]

This was a quote from Juwan in an AP story: 

"I don't think any team is 23 points better than us," Morgan said. "I think we have a lot more fight in us than that. I think there's a lot of talent in that (locker) room. I'm angry about it. I know every guy in that room is. ... Everybody is embarrassed."

Well then, here's what you do Juwan: You're the big dog, the top senior! Get on these guys' a$$es and get them ready to go. Show how angry you are by not getting in a 17-0 hole the next game. 

I saw a couple times tonight where it looked as if he had just quit. 

Every game, I keep thinking "This is the one we'll turn it around," and every game, I'm disappointed. How can we destroy a pretty good Marquette team, gut out a win over a pretty good Louisville team -- then play like a youth basketball team taking on the '96 Bulls ever since. We are NOT this bad. I just don't get it. I'm flummoxed. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

1 hour ago, Iugradman said:

Of the course the President and BOT are big problems but Fred is the lowest hanging fruit. You can’t fire the BOT and I have never seen a university president dismissed due to lack of athletics success. The only way to force change is to stop buying tickets and refuse to donate. Hit them in the pocketbook.

Firing the lowest hanging fruit helps nothing.  It would simply make some pretty angry people feel better.  Fred Glass is not the problem.  McRobbie is a lot closer to that answer.  We're stuck until he gets a clue or leaves.   God bless John Ryan.

[MikeRoberts 6,921]

This was a quote from Juwan in an AP story: 
"I don't think any team is 23 points better than us," Morgan said. "I think we have a lot more fight in us than that. I think there's a lot of talent in that (locker) room. I'm angry about it. I know every guy in that room is. ... Everybody is embarrassed."
Well then, here's what you do Juwan: You're the big dog, the top senior! Get on these guys' a$$es and get them ready to go. Show how angry you are by not getting in a 17-0 hole the next game. 
I saw a couple times tonight where it looked as if he had just quit. 
Every game, I keep thinking "This is the one we'll turn it around," and every game, I'm disappointed. How can we destroy a pretty good Marquette team, gut out a win over a pretty good Louisville team -- then play like a youth basketball team taking on the '96 Bulls ever since. We are NOT this bad. I just don't get it. I'm flummoxed. 

I don’t know what flummoxed means but this on Archie, Juwan and McBob. That is the core of our “leaders” and they aren’t getting it done. Juwan puts up big numbers but isn’t leading, there really doesn’t appear to be any


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[AZ Hoosier 6,567]

44 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

This was a quote from Juwan in an AP story: 

"I don't think any team is 23 points better than us," Morgan said. "I think we have a lot more fight in us than that. I think there's a lot of talent in that (locker) room. I'm angry about it. I know every guy in that room is. ... Everybody is embarrassed."

Good. I'm glad they are embarrassed. They deserve to be the way they played... but dammit, don't just come out to the post-game interview and talk about it ... DO SOMETHING about it. The guys in that locker room are the only ones who can. As much as all of us would like to do something about it, we can't. This "team" has to figure out how to get it done. It starts with Archie and his staff... then to the upperclassmen. Juwan, McBob and even Taylor should know better... and so should the juniors... but you have one of them suspended for (allegedly) a drug issue. This six game skid could well be an 8 game skid by a week from tomorrow.

This sure ain't my daddy's Hoosier team. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

25 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I don’t know what flummoxed means but this on Archie, Juwan and McBob. That is the core of our “leaders” and they aren’t getting it done. Juwan puts up big numbers but isn’t leading, there really doesn’t appear to be any


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I said last April that if Indiana counted on McBob for any kind of significant role on this season's team, we would be in huge trouble.  On a team that can't shoot and struggles to score, he is absolutely worthless.   He has 15 points on the season and 4..FOUR in the last 13 games....in 234 minutes.   FOUR points in 234 minutes.   On a team that struggles to score anyway.  Why is that guy ever on the floor?  Why?     Maybe it's his 7 assists over the same time period.  Or his zero..ZERO free throw attempts.   Or his 6 turnovers.  That must be it.   He only has 6 turnovers in the last 234 minutes played.  But wait...you mean he has more turnovers than points?  Hhhhmm...then THAT can't be the reason.

McBob over the last 13 games and 234 minutes is 2-15 from the floor, zero FTA's, 7 assists, 6 turnovers, 4 points, 13 fouls, and 33 rebounds.  That's not bad...33 rebounds.  12 steals and zero blocks.   And he plays about 21 minutes a game.   Is anyone really expecting him to be a leader??   We have so much dead weight on this team it's comical.  Between McBob, Fitzner, Moore, Anderson, Forrester, and Green...half our roster is absolutely worthless.  Leave alone what seem to be career ending injuries to Thompson and Davis and we've got no help on the way.   It's beyond embarrassing.

[HoosierRobbie 929]

That was just plain bad all around, this may be the most hopeless I’ve felt when it comes to the IU basketball program. I want to believe in Archie, but idk how you can right now.


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[Whoozhers 3,652]

Here we are again. Only ticket to dance boils down to winning the B1G Tournament.
Archie and this team has turned HOPE into a 4 letter word.


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[coonhounds 8,793]

I said last April that if Indiana counted on McBob for any kind of significant role on this season's team, we would be in huge trouble.  On a team that can't shoot and struggles to score, he is absolutely worthless.   He has 15 points on the season and 4..FOUR in the last 13 games....in 234 minutes.   FOUR points in 234 minutes.   On a team that struggles to score anyway.  Why is that guy ever on the floor?  Why?     Maybe it's his 7 assists over the same time period.  Or his zero..ZERO free throw attempts.   Or his 6 turnovers.  That must be it.   He only has 6 turnovers in the last 234 minutes played.  But wait...you mean he has more turnovers than points?  Hhhhmm...then THAT can't be the reason.
McBob over the last 13 games and 234 minutes is 2-15 from the floor, zero FTA's, 7 assists, 6 turnovers, 4 points, 13 fouls, and 33 rebounds.  That's not bad...33 rebounds.  12 steals and zero blocks.   And he plays about 21 minutes a game.   Is anyone really expecting him to be a leader??   We have so much dead weight on this team it's comical.  Between McBob, Fitzner, Moore, Anderson, Forrester, and Green...half our roster is absolutely worthless.  Leave alone what seem to be career ending injuries to Thompson and Davis and we've got no help on the way.   It's beyond embarrassing.

Just to point out that race has been cleared to play so we got that at least lol

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[Feathery 4,005]

Phin, Al, Romeo, Juwan should start and play the most minutes. After that either too young or not good enough. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,182]

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[MikeRoberts 6,921]

I said last April that if Indiana counted on McBob for any kind of significant role on this season's team, we would be in huge trouble.  On a team that can't shoot and struggles to score, he is absolutely worthless.   He has 15 points on the season and 4..FOUR in the last 13 games....in 234 minutes.   FOUR points in 234 minutes.   On a team that struggles to score anyway.  Why is that guy ever on the floor?  Why?     Maybe it's his 7 assists over the same time period.  Or his zero..ZERO free throw attempts.   Or his 6 turnovers.  That must be it.   He only has 6 turnovers in the last 234 minutes played.  But wait...you mean he has more turnovers than points?  Hhhhmm...then THAT can't be the reason.
McBob over the last 13 games and 234 minutes is 2-15 from the floor, zero FTA's, 7 assists, 6 turnovers, 4 points, 13 fouls, and 33 rebounds.  That's not bad...33 rebounds.  12 steals and zero blocks.   And he plays about 21 minutes a game.   Is anyone really expecting him to be a leader??   We have so much dead weight on this team it's comical.  Between McBob, Fitzner, Moore, Anderson, Forrester, and Green...half our roster is absolutely worthless.  Leave alone what seem to be career ending injuries to Thompson and Davis and we've got no help on the way.   It's beyond embarrassing.

I think you can expect leadership out of McBob as a senior captain regardless of how much he plays. And yes, I agree, he has given us nothing but a guy that passes and hands it off on the perimeter.

He can and should be a guy that leads by example in and outside the locker room and gets on people when they aren’t falling in line. He doesnt have to start or even play big minutes to do that.

What’s sad is that even McBob has regressed. He used to hit the offensive glass, set great picks, make great cuts and was a spark plug on defense. He does none of those things anymore and that is concerning with Archie and how he has trained this team to play


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[pumpfake 3,930]

11 hours ago, Adillac said:

Romeo is not going to be a lottery pick. There is just no way. Too many springy, quick, athletic, good shooters available- he has NONE of those qualities. He's a great player, no doubt. He isn't quick. At all. He doesn't get off the floor quickly, isn't a "leaper", and hasn't shown the ability to lead a fast break. Not once can I remember him leading a fast break. In fact, when he has the ball in the open court I'm usually nervous. He isn't a great ball handler. I'm not knocking the kid. But let's be real- he finishes really well around the hoop and has a knack for drawing fouls. He does this probably better than anyone in the country tbh. So, that's his big ticket. I think he won't come back for a 2nd year obviously, but he looks to be a 11-20 pick.

I don't know how I feel about Archie yet. I still think it's too early for me to be overly concerned about our future. Obviously, last year there was a complete pass on the team being good. This year, the team did look to be pretty good until recently. We've had almost unparalleled injury issues this year. I do think that matters.

Smith, Fitzner, Anderson and McRoberts just aren't that good. Romeo, Phinisee and Morgan are good players, two are freshmen. Is Archie as good a coach as John Beilien? No, not right now. John has about 30 years experience on him. Archie will get better just as any coach gets better. And when he is able to fill out his roster with more complete basketball players and maybe not have half the roster sitting with injuries, then IU will be out of this mess.

Next year, we will have a more seasoned and confident Phinisee, Jerome Hunter (who on paper could probably have started over McRoberts or Smith), TJD who looks to be a legit centerpiece to any team, and very possibly if not probably Keion Brooks who is also a stud. So that's 3 "forwards" with legit high-level talent. This year we have 1 forward with high-level talent in Morgan. On top of that we'll have a stable of solid backups in the front court and backcourt: Race, Moore, Durham, Green (?), Anderson, Franklin.

Who knows if Archie lands another recruit too.

I still have faith in Archie and Indiana. It's just a storm of circumstances right now I think. Is it acceptable for IU to go on a huge losing streak and embarrass themselves at home? Next year? No. This year, yes. He has been coaching at Indiana for 22 months. I think it's fair to expect significant success in year 3, but not in year 2. Even Knight had years where his teams were "inept".

Not preaching, just my opinion. I still tend to think Archie is gonna be a great one here. He is still really young, he's fiery, and I think he is going to be a fantastic recruiter. I mean, he already has 2, probably 3 (if Keion commits) 5 star recruits in under 24 months at IU.

Almost completely agree with this post.  I'd add that going forward, I believe Al is going to eventually be a really good contributor - it seems like he's right on the cusp of breaking through, and was the closest thing to a fighter on the floor for us last night.

The only thing I don't fully share is the belief that TJD is going to be an immediate difference maker.  First off, we don't know how he will fare physically against good & experienced college players.  Secondly, he's shown a propensity to sulk and let it affect his play when things don't go his way - that is exactly what we DON'T need.  The good news is that TJD does seem to play with more fire and emotion than what we've seen on our team lately.  I'm optimistic, but it's really hard to predict what a freshman will bring, especially with some behaviors we've seen from them in H.S..  I hope he proves my concerns to be unfounded.

[Rico 2,991]

7 hours ago, Joe DeLow said:

I’ve asked the question.. why McBob? I didn’t watch the game, but I looked at the box score. McBob starts, plays 23 minutes, scores 0 points, had 2 boards and 2 fouls. Hell he didn’t even attempt a shot. Then look down the box score... Moore didn’t play. Forrester didn’t play. Like really? McBob does nothing for 23 minutes and they couldn’t get in? How dumb is that? Is Archie trying to get them to leave?


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That absolutely was mind-boggling to me.

[Josh 12,569]

12 hours ago, theriverpilot said:

I had to work late tonight to do an upgrade, obviously missed the game but knew the outcome. Came here to read at least 150+ posts in the game thread and catch up but only see 60 posts!

So this is what fan apathy looks like.



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Yeah, but at least the administration saved money instead of spending on a big name!

[HoosierX 1,523]

12 hours ago, theriverpilot said:

I had to work late tonight to do an upgrade, obviously missed the game but knew the outcome. Came here to read at least 150+ posts in the game thread and catch up but only see 60 posts!

So this is what fan apathy looks like.



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This is a post game thread, not the game thread. There were 500+ posts in the game thread.

[LamarCheeks 18,142]

30 minutes ago, Josh said:

Yeah, but at least the administration saved money instead of spending on a big name!

How did the administration save money? Archie is the 10th-highest paid coach in the country. He's making $3.2 million a year. And from No. 10 to No. 5 (Izzo), there isn't that much of a jump -- from $3.2 mil to $3.65 mil. Then it jumps to $4.7 mil at No. 4 (Self, Kansas). 

Maybe Archie was the right choice, maybe not. I still think he can be an excellent coach. But money isn't the issue here. ... Now if you wanna talk football and being cheap, that's another story ... 

[Southside 1,914]

It was hard to watch... If Archie doesn't move to a rotation geared almost 100% towards offense, he's going to continue to pile up losses, lose the players, and lose his job.

Zach either needs to start attempting shots (and making them), or he needs to sit. Fitz simply should not be an option. 

Personally, Give me Morgan and Smith as primary Fs, and Romeo, Phin, and Green starting Gs. Durham first off the bench, and pick the hot hand F of the week not named Fitz....  

And if he does lose his job, Glass needs to hit the road too. 

[theriverpilot 5,589]

This is a post game thread, not the game thread. There were 500+ posts in the game thread.

Oops! My mistake. Thanks for the correction.


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[AZ Hoosier 6,567]

Here's an alternate view that has some merit. It's from an email list that I participate in focused on IU athletics...

Quote

There's an insightful article on Peegs today.  It's an analysis of our roster as it stand now.

 

We have had, for most of the season, one recruited senior -- Juwan Morgan.  Our other seniors are a walk-on - Josh McRoberts, and a grad transfer who didn't pan out - Evan Fitzner.  We have essentially zero recruited juniors. Jones - gone from the program, Gelon - gone from the program, Green suspended indefinitely after returning from an injury that sidelined him for the start of the season, and DeRon Davis - a season-long injury casualty who showed, in the Arkansas game, how valuable he can be when healthy.  That's it - one upperclassman.

 

The sophomore class was recruited by Coach Crean. It is comprised of Justin Smith, Aljami Durham, and Clifton Moore.  They combined for 13 points last night.  Our incoming class includes Jerome Hunter, who, according to our own {redacted}, was the best player in Ohio last year and has had his season cancelled by injury or illness, Romeo Langford, Damezi Anderson, Robert Phinisee, Race Thompson, and Jake Forrester. Romeo is the only one who has contributed in every game, and he looks like he's getting worn down.  If he isn't limping he's holding his bandaged wrist (that was plain to see during the clock malfunction team huddle at the start of the game).

 

Ergo, we have no depth, no height, and no healthy shooters. To answer {redacted}'s question from last night, it appears to be nowhere near the time to start speculation on Archie's future at IU.  The team he inherited was basically a one man team - Juwan. If a team is starting a walk-on senior who doesn't score and is hesitant to get back to last year's form as a defender and hustle-play guy, you've got trouble right here in BTown City.

 

John Beilein was 67-67 in his first four years at Michigan.  Archie will need at least three more years to build a contender; one with an attitude and will to win.