MSU....Heat on Izzo?

[cthomas 6,346]

5 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And they don't handle criminal issues. University administrators and athletic departments handle disciplinary issues. As has been mentioned above, rapists are rarely convicted in criminal court due the standard of evidence required to put someone behind bars. There is a lower standard of evidence in university disciplinary investigations which makes sense.

Title IX requires that universities have a hand in investigating sexual misconduct on their campuses. So the idea that they have "no business" investigating these events is ridiculous on its face. 

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember reading that the Title IX person at MSU left over frustration about how this issue was handled. Perhaps it's time to revisit the system in place because it doesn't seem to be working well enough. There almost seems to be a conflict of interest favoring the university interest for the accused as opposed to the victim. I'm sure it works better in some places than others, especially when high profile athletes/programs aren't involved.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,057]

15 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Im not arguing for that. But leaving the system as is tells me you really only care about potential victims if they are men. 

Current system doesnt care about victims one tiny bit

But I've already said that I don't want to keep the current system in place. It doesn't work very well for either the accused or the accuser. If my girlfriend were to be assaulted by a townie the police would be in charge, but if it was a basketball player the athletic department/university would get involved? That doesn't make sense to me. Schools shouldn't play a role in investigating because they have incentives for covering up accusations. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

35 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I actually agree with you that the system is broken. I want it changed too, we just have different opinions on what we think that change should be. I want the university removed from the situation entirely. Tom Izzo never should've been in a situation where he was able to cover up the allegations in the first place. Rape is a crime, and investigating that crime should be left to the police to do like they would if the accused was a regular joe instead of a college student. 

Definitely agree with you that university should be removed entirely. That's also a major change to our judicial system. It would be best to remove the individuals that have reason to influence certain outcomes from the process, but our legal system has allowed colleges and educational institutions to operate in their own unique legal environment for some time. There are a few Supreme Court decisions that have supported an idea that schools need the ability to maintain order, and thus receive unique consideration under the law. http://www.nytimes.com/learning/teachers/featured_articles/20080915monday.html

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,197]

What are those 321,500 women? Are they not innocent? Basic logic is directing my argument - there are far more victims of sexual assault, reported and unreported, than victims of false accusations. Even if you assume the highest false accusation rate of 10%, that means there are 10x innocent victims of sexual assault for every one victim of false accusations.

And we can't figure out how to help these women who are actually raped and/or harassed along with those men wrongly accused? It has to be one or the other? There has to be a way to save both.

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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,197]

Sexual relationships between men and women, especially young men and women, is a complicated game. I have two daughters and four granddaughters so just these issues are always on my mind. A crime is a crime no matter where it takes place. University administrators and athletic departments have no business handling criminal issues. Victims should be encouraged to pursue charges with the appropriate authorities so that our legal system can discover the truth and assess penalties. We, as a society, cannot continue to tolerate a culture of entitlement for athletes and the resulting devaluation of women. I believe in protecting the rights of the accused and the principle of due process. However, for due process to work, both the victim and the accused have to have their day in court.

This exactly

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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

4 minutes ago, iufaninillinois said:

And we can't figure out how to help these women who are actually raped and/or harassed along with those men wrongly accused? It has to be one or the other? There has to be a way to save both.

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That'd be great. I proposed an extreme solution. Maybe there are better options. Although, I think it will take something drastic and powerful to shake the current system and the current way we handle sexual assault.

If my solution is the solution that causes the most damage, and that damage is 10x less harmful that the current system, is it that bad of a solution though? Couldn't a shift in the burden of proof lead to the development of different and potentially improved means for investigating sexual assault, thus helping to improve our ability to identify criminals and protect innocent people?

[MoyeNeeded 3,073]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Izzo is the entire MSU program.  They went to the Final Four with Forddy Anderson, had an Elite 8 and title run with Jud Heathcote, and won at least a share of the BT title with a couple of other coaches.  They've had their most sustained success with Izzo, but they had some success with other coaches.

Next up...Dane Fife!

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[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,137]

Just now, MoyeNeeded said:

Next up...Dane Fife!

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Unless he gets caught up in the dirt or simply decides it's time for him to move on and separate himself from the mess.

[MoyeNeeded 3,073]

It's not even close to being that simple. Girl gets mad because you won't return her calls? Boom, false accusation. The only solution would be to avoid all contact with the opposite sex, and even then you're not completely safe. 

REALLY???

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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,197]

That'd be great. I proposed an extreme solution. Maybe there are better options. Although, I think it will take something drastic and powerful to shake the current system and the current way we handle sexual assault.
If my solution is the solution that causes the most damage, and that damage is 10x less harmful that the current system, is it that bad of a solution though? Couldn't a shift in the burden of proof lead to the development of different and potentially improved means for investigating sexual assault, thus helping to improve our ability to identify criminals and protect innocent people?

Yes something needs to change. However, I am not willing to go to your extreme position. The 10% falsely accused should never suffer the same fate as those who actually did the crime. A close niece was raped in HS, so I know what women go through.

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[Hoosierfan2017 21,057]

7 hours ago, MoyeNeeded said:

REALLY???

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Yes

[Ranger78 1,293]

If I hear Izzo say one more thing about the survivors, I’m going to lose my mind. He doesn’t want to speak out of respect for the survivors. BS - he doesn’t want to speak to protect his sorry @$$. If he cared about the survivors in 2010, he would have suspended the sexual predators on his team. He’s a fraud and ESPN is happy to give him a platform to promote his pathetic @$$. MSU will go on a run and the survivors will be a thought in the wind. The whole thing is pathetic.


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[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

48 minutes ago, Ranger78 said:

If I hear Izzo say one more thing about the survivors, I’m going to lose my mind. He doesn’t want to speak out of respect for the survivors. BS - he doesn’t want to speak to protect his sorry @$$. If he cared about the survivors in 2010, he would have suspended the sexual predators on his team. He’s a fraud and ESPN is happy to give him a platform to promote his pathetic @$$. MSU will go on a run and the survivors will be a thought in the wind. The whole thing is pathetic.


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What he really means is "I didn't do a damn thing to help and that's really disrespectful to those who went through the ordeal. Also, I'm a POS, who happens to be a good coach"

[323SGrant 1,176]

If I hear Izzo say one more thing about the survivors, I’m going to lose my mind. He doesn’t want to speak out of respect for the survivors. BS - he doesn’t want to speak to protect his sorry @$$. If he cared about the survivors in 2010, he would have suspended the sexual predators on his team. He’s a fraud and ESPN is happy to give him a platform to promote his pathetic @$$. MSU will go on a run and the survivors will be a thought in the wind. The whole thing is pathetic.


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Izzo has been sweeping these crimes “under the rug” for years without consequence.


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[Bailey7878 2,506]

Izzo has been sweeping these crimes “under the rug” for years without consequence.


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And he will again. They simply will never force him out and that's a fact.

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[mdn82 25,510]

I am shocked he didn’t set an example on a walk-on. This is just ignorance.

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/22457780/michigan-state-freshman-basketball-player-subject-criminal-sexual-conduct-investigation-espn


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[MikeRoberts 6,942]

I am shocked he didn’t set an example on a walk-on. This is just ignorance.

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/22457780/michigan-state-freshman-basketball-player-subject-criminal-sexual-conduct-investigation-espn


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He will confess to littering and it will all go away


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[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

And the plot at Michigan State thickens......

[Hardwood83 4,762]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 6:17 PM, Ranger78 said:

If I hear Izzo say one more thing about the survivors, I’m going to lose my mind. He doesn’t want to speak out of respect for the survivors. BS - he doesn’t want to speak to protect his sorry @$$. If he cared about the survivors in 2010, he would have suspended the sexual predators on his team. He’s a fraud and ESPN is happy to give him a platform to promote his pathetic @$$. MSU will go on a run and the survivors will be a thought in the wind. The whole thing is pathetic.


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A year or two ago, I would absolutely agree. In the current environment I'm not so sure. The AD and school President have just resigned- so there is blood in the water and the sharks are circling. Izzo may not be captain of his own destiny on this one. 

[Ranger78 1,293]

45 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

A year or two ago, I would absolutely agree. In the current environment I'm not so sure. The AD and school President have just resigned- so there is blood in the water and the sharks are circling. Izzo may not be captain of his own destiny on this one. 

I hope you're right.