IUBB vs Fort Wayne - 12/18 @ 8:00 E.T.

[Trish]

Think of it this way boys. 

 

Would you rather watch this team play under these new systems (offense/defense) under Archie? Or would you rather still have Crean here running the weave and heave while playing zero defense with this roster? 

 

 

 

 

 

[IUHAHN81]

That is kind of a HUGE part of coaching.  If u r a coach with a very specific style, part of ur tactics and game plan involves having kids that fit the style and can pyhisically do what is needed.  Hence Jimmy poo at Syracuse.   U don't see him recruiting short wings for his specific zone.  U gotta have the right pieces.  Period.

[IUHAHN81]

Hey I just came out of the locker room at half and these guys said they'd rather play on Snapchat than play the rest of this game...

[cappymo14]

This may have been brought up already, but I’m thinking the pack-line D was a big part of this game (and ISU). From all I’ve read the pack-line is meant to force jump shots with a closing defender. A great ball handler with good 3-point shooters around is the recipe to beat the pack line. Seems like Fort Wayne was exactly that. Do you guys think Archie would switch up the defense at all going into an opponent with those strengths?

My point early this season was that this, what you just described, is what we will find all the way down to the bottom of the B1G. Teams that routinely attempt 30 triples per game. I was suspicious that the pack line was not only a dangerous defense for this 2017 team, but a risky defense for use in conference play. It’s been tried to some degree over the years with very marginal success. Wisconsin used a different version of it under Dick Bennett. They had a few good seasons but would get pole stomped by teams with quick guards and shooters. Had more than one, first round exits from the tournament via that route. Other than that, I don’t believe many teams have tried a traditional pack line in the BigTen. I have to think there is a reason for it. The one good thing I can see, in relation to this years team, is that the scores, for the most part, seem to be in the 60’s-70’s. With the known offensive limitations, this at least keeps them within ten.


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[cappymo14]

This one's 100% on the players.  Not Archie.  You think he's teaching them to leave the 3 point line uncontested?  You think he wants them to lose all 50/50 balls, miss FT's, etc?     What about that game said "unprepared because of coaching" to you?  I saw a team that looked like they didn't want to be there.  That's on the players and in particular the seniors esp. Newkirk, McSwain (who is Godawful), and Johnson.  Not the coach.

The part in the presser where he said he didn’t have the team prepared to play.


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[cappymo14]

Heard something tonight from assembly call that I agree with. (Heavily paraphrased) They said although the coaching staff certainly deserves some of the blame for the loss, it’s very difficult to decide what for. Most of the players on the floor, lost to that team last year. They knew better than anyone that IPFW could beat them if they didn’t have effort and focus. They knew it. And in regard to the free perimeter shots, of the 17 hit, 13 of them were hit by just two guys....How as players, were they not able to recognize who was torching them? I find it hard to assign blame to the coaching staff in this.


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[Bailey7878]

My point early this season was that this, what you just described, is what we will find all the way down to the bottom of the B1G. Teams that routinely attempt 30 triples per game. I was suspicious that the pack line was not only a dangerous defense for this 2017 team, but a risky defense for use in conference play. It’s been tried to some degree over the years with very marginal success. Wisconsin used a different version of it under Dick Bennett. They had a few good seasons but would get pole stomped by teams with quick guards and shooters. Had more than one, first round exits from the tournament via that route. Other than that, I don’t believe many teams have tried a traditional pack line in the BigTen. I have to think there is a reason for it. The one good thing I can see, in relation to this years team, is that the scores, for the most part, seem to be in the 60’s-70’s. With the known offensive limitations, this at least keeps them within ten.


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I am sort of new to this pack line defense but with today's three point weapon at least for us it seems ineffective. We are giving up wide open threes.

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[GloryDays]

I am sort of new to this pack line defense but with today's three point weapon at least for us it seems ineffective. We are giving up wide open threes.

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At least 2/3 of the wide open threes came in transition after, ready...drum roll please!
TURNOVERS!!!
Our senior guards suck.
Yes the packline will give up an occasional 3 but not what we're seeing with this inept guard rotation.
I'm not the least bit worried about Archie Miller's ability.




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[Old Friend]

6 hours ago, cappymo14 said:

The part in the presser where he said he didn’t have the team prepared to play.


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Every coach will say that rather than throw his kids under the bus.  He had 48 hours.  It's not on him.  It's on the kids.  You know that as well as I do. All you had to do was watch the game,  It had nothing to do with game plan or scheme.   No college coach should coach effort.

[BGleas]

33 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Every coach will say that rather than throw his kids under the bus.  He had 48 hours.  It's not on him.  It's on the kids.  You know that as well as I do. All you had to do was watch the game,  It had nothing to do with game plan or scheme.   No college coach should coach effort.

Completely agree. Just looking at the difference of the games between Saturday and Monday it’s clear. Against ND defenders were hedging ball screens hard and recovering with purpose and attitude. Help side defenders were dropping into the paint to cover until bigs recovered and then sprinting out to shooters. 

Momday guys were standing on defense, giving half effort on hedges and recovering, etc., etc. We turned the ball over at will and as everyone has said, the turnovers were just boneheaded turnovers. 

Thats a focus issue largely on the players. 

[pappy1865]

12 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

That’s a fake account for Cody


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Didn't even catch that! I follow the parody account, and the real one. 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

9 hours ago, Old Friend said:

This one's 100% on the players.  Not Archie.  You think he's teaching them to leave the 3 point line uncontested?  You think he wants them to lose all 50/50 balls, miss FT's, etc?     What about that game said "unprepared because of coaching" to you?  I saw a team that looked like they didn't want to be there.  That's on the players and in particular the seniors esp. Newkirk, McSwain (who is Godawful), and Johnson.  Not the coach.

This is what I don't get. There was the twitter post earlier showing the four plays where IPFW switched out on the perimeter, the ball handler drew the double because we didn't switch, and then passes to the open man in the corner for a three.

Do people think Archie taught his players to do that? You don't think he also told them to pay attention to that during the next time out?

The players are ultimately responsible for executing. Not preparing the team is when you go out there, play a zone, and just try to shoot over it all day without getting in to the paint. Knowing to switch on defense so you don't leave a guy wide open? That's just simply on the players.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

This is what I don't get. There was the twitter post earlier showing the four plays where IPFW switched out on the perimeter, the ball handler drew the double because we didn't switch, and then passes to the open man in the corner for a three.

Do people think Archie taught his players to do that? You don't think he also told them to pay attention to that during the next time out?

The players are ultimately responsible for executing. Not preparing the team is when you go out there, play a zone, and just try to shoot over it all day without getting in to the paint. Knowing to switch on defense so you don't leave a guy wide open? That's just simply on the players.

I noticed this a lot when watching the game live. Double team ball handler, and the man who the second defender leaves is wide open in the corner for a three. Infuriating.

[JSHoosier]

If it was me, next game I'd try to send a message.

Jager

McRoberts

Smith

Morgan

Moore

 

4 new starters to start the game, the regulars can sit for a bit.  Morgan still in because he'd played well lately and drop off from NPOW is expected.  I know that's two walkons and an awful lineup, that's not the point.  I know that lineup wouldn't be able to do much of anything, but the regular starters don't either.  Hey, if we're just marking everything off as to first year then there's no reason not to.

[mdn82]

If it was me, next game I'd try to send a message.
Jager
McRoberts
Smith
Morgan
Moore
 
4 new starters to start the game, the regulars can sit for a bit.  Morgan still in because he'd played well lately and drop off from NPOW is expected.  I know that's two walkons and an awful lineup, that's not the point.  I know that lineup wouldn't be able to do much of anything, but the regular starters don't either.  Hey, if we're just marking everything off as to first year then there's no reason not to.

Shouldn’t we be trying to teach a message in practice? Personally I would have them run their alcohol out of their system up and down the stairs at AH.


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[Stuhoo]

36 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

If it was me, next game I'd try to send a message.

Jager

McRoberts

Smith

Morgan

Moore

 

4 new starters to start the game, the regulars can sit for a bit.  Morgan still in because he'd played well lately and drop off from NPOW is expected.  I know that's two walkons and an awful lineup, that's not the point.  I know that lineup wouldn't be able to do much of anything, but the regular starters don't either.  Hey, if we're just marking everything off as to first year then there's no reason not to.

 

How do you know that Jager, Smith, and Moore are working hard in practice?

Not saying they aren't; just saying that if a message is sent, it better not be one that rewards players who aren't on the court because their effort is lacking.

 

[Hovadipo]

8 hours ago, cappymo14 said:

The part in the presser where he said he didn’t have the team prepared to play.


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Welcome to the era of a coach keeping his guys out of the line of fire. Refreshing. 

[Josh]

This is what I don't get. There was the twitter post earlier showing the four plays where IPFW switched out on the perimeter, the ball handler drew the double because we didn't switch, and then passes to the open man in the corner for a three.
Do people think Archie taught his players to do that? You don't think he also told them to pay attention to that during the next time out?
The players are ultimately responsible for executing. Not preparing the team is when you go out there, play a zone, and just try to shoot over it all day without getting in to the paint. Knowing to switch on defense so you don't leave a guy wide open? That's just simply on the players.

I noticed this a lot when watching the game live. Double team ball handler, and the man who the second defender leaves is wide open in the corner for a three. Infuriating.

Yes. So as a coach, how does Archie fix that? Does he just hope the players figure it out? Does he blame Tom Crean? Or does he take the reigns and make in game adjustments?

I don't understand how he gets no blame.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

3 minutes ago, Josh said:

 

 

Yes. So as a coach, how does Archie fix that? Does he just hope the players figure it out? Does he blame Tom Crean? Or does he take the reigns and make in game adjustments?

I don't understand how he gets no blame.

 

 

He makes the adjustments in practice, but players have to be listening and executing on what they're taught. Do you think that he didn't point this out in game? In that case, we're screwed and made a terrible hire. I really don't believe that's the situation.

[Josh]

He makes the adjustments in practice, but players have to be listening and executing on what they're taught. Do you think that he didn't point this out in game? In that case, we're screwed and made a terrible hire. I really don't believe that's the situation.

If he did point it out during the game, it didn't work. So he didn't make his point clear enough.

I don't know what to think. Because you're right, if that was the case it was a terrible hire. If it's a case of him trying to get them to listen and they didn't, there needs to be repercussions. Based upon playing time and results, I'm not sure he did.