TOM CREAN FIRED

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Those players were not NBA players coming in to college, which is why they ended up at WSU and not a major program. And they would never made it to the NBA had they not played for a coach who was able to take his talent, develop it, and figure out ways to compete and win against bigger programs and making those runs in the tournament. I'm not saying they were not good, but to expect him to win an NCAA title with mid major talent is a little far fetched in my opinion.

Both were undrafted and are back in the D league, there are lots of players that go back to the D league (and/or never make it out) that came from college, so is it fair to say that any coach that had D league players and didn't win a title in college is an underperforming coach? I don't think so. It's not like he had Future NBA stars or even quality bench players on his team. Marshall has done more with less than many have done with more. Marshall is not my first choice, but I would not be upset at all if he were to become the head coach.

Early was the 34th pick and Ron Baker was starting on this Knicks for some games this year. Vanvleet is on the Raptors roster.

The players, when playing the tournament, were developed. Doesn't matter where they came from, they became top talents. Also, he put together some really strong college teams with those guys. Credit given there.

Crean has done the exact same thing. He's definitely pulled in more talent around the underrated players he developed. He's had greater failures, but I don't care what Crean has done. Marshall hasn't really impressed. He's clearly assembled teams that are far more talented than the rest of his conference, so I'm not even sure how much stock to put in his 19(?) conference titles. Solid recruiter, coach, and player developer who would likely have greater success with the same resources as Crean. I'm not convinced of that though based on his time at Wichita.


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[Uspshoosier]

Wow, 13 first place finishes is pretty stinking good.  Tell me who has won more at any conference in the past 19 years?   If the NCAA hadn't placed WSU in with UK 3 years ago, they'd likely be the last remaining undefeated team in the NCAA's not IU.  His teams play solid D and they score a lot of points normally too.  

You can argue the A10 is better than the MVC, but both have been pretty solid in the top 5-6 teams the past 9 years.  To win the MVC what will be 5 out of the last 6 years, is impressive.  Besides, he's taken a mid major to the NCAA (this will be 6 straight) where it's usually 2-3 teams making it.  Where as the BIG usually has 7 minimum and Crean will have missed 2 out of the last 4.  Throw on top of that, his Shockers beat IU's Crean 2 years ago en route to a Sweet 16.  


Still not sold on Archie.  He's only been a head coach for 6 seasons.  He's done well with what he's had, but there have been several other mid major's make it to the Elite Eight.  

2006 - Memphis & George Mason 2007 - Memphis, 2008 - Davidson, Memphis & Xavier, 2010 - Butler,  2011 - VCU & Butler, 2013 - Wichita State 2014 - Dayton, 2015 - Gonzaga 

Would I be happy with him? Sure, he's better than Crean, but his track record does not hold up like Marshall's.   Just saying............

 

Bill self has 13 in a row and has never finished below 3rd in his years of coaching. If Kentucky wouldn't of beat them that year they would of loss to someone else. Kentucky was the 8 seed that year so it wasn't like they were a giant that year. If I remember right Harrison had to hit 3 game winning shots against Wichita st, Michigan, and wisky.


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[pappy1865]

Count me in the NOT sold on Marshall camp.  If it's not Billy D., IDK what to think.

[coonhounds]

Count me in the NOT sold on Marshall camp.  If it's not Billy D., IDK what to think.

Billy d is a long shot and keeping crean should not be a option. I am hitching my wagon to archie if billy isn't coming

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[Hoosierfan2017]

Greg Marshall looks too much like Crean for me. That's probably the worst reason not to want a coach, but oh well. I would prefer Holtmann over him tbh. 

[TheWatShot]

Iuwins0708 just posted to "make sure you watch the news after IU is eliminated from the Big Ten tourney." 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Greg Marshall's age is a deterrent for me. Plus I don't think he will be able to recruit 5 star type players. He is successful because he knows his stuff. Not sure it will translate to the big stage.


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[nerdvana]

6 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Iuwins0708 just posted to "make sure you watch the news after IU is eliminated from the Big Ten tourney." 

What are we supposed to do if IU wins the tournament?  :)

[HoosierAloha]

Iuwins0708 just posted to "make sure you watch the news after IU is eliminated from the Big Ten tourney." 

Weird! There's not any leaks...

[Stuhoo]

9 minutes ago, nerdvana said:

What are we supposed to do if IU wins the tournament?  :)

 

Celebrate the wins, the ensuing/highly entertaining drama, and...

the miracle... because there's barely a snowball's chance in he!! it could happen.

 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

What are we supposed to do if IU wins the tournament?  :)

Tell your loved ones goodbye and enjoy your last few moments in this earth.


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[Jeff_Boy_Ardee]

I think people underestimate how difficult the tournament can be to win a title. You need to have great players, great coaching, great chemistry, all clicking at the right time. There's no recipe to throw together and out pops a title. What I want is consistency. If you are consistently making the tournament and winning some games you out yourself in a position to make that title run. I tank that's what we all want. Obviously the number one goal is a title, but it's much more difficult to win one when you're not consistent. I don't know if it's fair, for lack of a better term, to pass on a coach just because they didn't win it all.

I love the back and forth this board brings, everyone brings valid points to both sides of the topic. I found it interesting to blindly look at some tourney finishes of some coaches for the last 5 seasons and then look who they belonged to. There's always more to the story than just the finish. Apologize ahead of time for the long post. But here's an example:

Coach A:
15/16 - Rd 32
14/15 - S16
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - FF
11/12 - Rd 64

Coach B:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - S16
13/14 - NIT
12/13 - None
11/12 - Rd 32

Coach C:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - E8
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - Rd 32
11/12 - Rd 32

Coach D:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - E8
13/14 - E8
12/13 - S16
11/12 NIT

Coach E:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - FF
13/14 - E8
12/13 - S16
11/12 - S16

Coach F:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - Champ
13/14 - Rd 64
12/13 - E8
11/12 - Rd 64

Coach G:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - Rd 64
13/14 - None
12/13 - S16
11/12 - S16

Coach H:
15/16 - Runner Up
14/15 - S16
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - Rd 32
11/12 - E8

Coach I:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - Rd 32
13/14 - E8
12/13 - none
11/12 NIT



Coach A - Marshall
Coach B - Bob Huggins
Coach C - Mark Few
Coach D - Sean Miller
Coach E - Izzo
Coach F - Coach K
Coach G - Crean
Coach H - Roy Williams
Coach I - Archie Miller

Now that I've typed all that out I don't really know what my point was but I didn't want to delete it. Obviously we all have our opinions as to why these coaches did or didn't do better this year or the next. Sorry for the long post, I'll retire for a couple days.

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 minute ago, Jeff_Boy_Ardee said:

I think people underestimate how difficult the tournament can be to win a title. You need to have great players, great coaching, great chemistry, all clicking at the right time. There's no recipe to throw together and out pops a title. What I want is consistency. If you are consistently making the tournament and winning some games you out yourself in a position to make that title run. I tank that's what we all want. Obviously the number one goal is a title, but it's much more difficult to win one when you're not consistent. I don't know if it's fair, for lack of a better term, to pass on a coach just because they didn't win it all.

I love the back and forth this board brings, everyone brings valid points to both sides of the topic. I found it interesting to blindly look at some tourney finishes of some coaches for the last 5 seasons and then look who they belonged to. There's always more to the story than just the finish. Apologize ahead of time for the long post. But here's an example:

Coach A:
15/16 - Rd 32
14/15 - S16
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - FF
11/12 - Rd 64

Coach B:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - S16
13/14 - NIT
12/13 - None
11/12 - Rd 32

Coach C:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - E8
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - Rd 32
11/12 - Rd 32

Coach D:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - E8
13/14 - E8
12/13 - S16
11/12 NIT

Coach E:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - FF
13/14 - E8
12/13 - S16
11/12 - S16

Coach F:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - Champ
13/14 - Rd 64
12/13 - E8
11/12 - Rd 64

Coach G:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - Rd 64
13/14 - None
12/13 - S16
11/12 - S16

Coach H:
15/16 - Runner Up
14/15 - S16
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - Rd 32
11/12 - E8

Coach I:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - Rd 32
13/14 - E8
12/13 - none
11/12 NIT



Coach A - Marshall
Coach B - Bob Huggins
Coach C - Mark Few
Coach D - Sean Miller
Coach E - Izzo
Coach F - Coach K
Coach G - Crean
Coach H - Roy Williams
Coach I - Archie Miller

Now that I've typed all that out I don't really know what my point was but I didn't want to delete it. Obviously we all have our opinions as to why these coaches did or didn't do better this year or the next. Sorry for the long post, I'll retire for a couple days.

My biggest problem with Crean's lack of tournament success here isn't really the fact we haven't made it past the Sweet 16, it's how we've looked in the process. We've looked inept a lot of the time. No coach wins all of his tournament games. Coach K, Izzo, Calipari, Pitino, etc. all lose in the tourney, but with those guys on the sideline you always feel like your team has a chance to win because of your coach. With Crean in the tournament I have no confidence when we're up against a team as good or better than us. 

[coonhounds]

Who is iuwins0708? Some random jack wagon or somebody who is somewhat in the know? If iu wins the big ten tourney this year then i am convinced we are cursed

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[Stuhoo]

Just now, coonhounds said:

Who is iuwins0708? Some random jack wagon or somebody who is somewhat in the know? If iu wins the big ten tourney this year then i am convinced we are cursed

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[Jeff_Boy_Ardee]

My biggest problem with Crean's lack of tournament success here isn't really the fact we haven't made it past the Sweet 16, it's how we've looked in the process. We've looked inept a lot of the time. No coach wins all of his tournament games. Coach K, Izzo, Calipari, Pitino, etc. all lose in the tourney, but with those guys on the sideline you always feel like your team has a chance to win because of your coach. With Crean in the tournament I have no confidence when we're up against a team as good or better than us. 

I agree with you. I think my point is looking at the record is one thing but looking at the season and coach as a whole changes things. Archie looks piss pour on the above but a lot of people like him and I can see why, I think he's good also. You could argue Marshall underachieved but his teams, for the most part, were never out of it before it began. I always felt like they had a chance to knock off a better team.

I think I'm just so ready for Crean to be gone I'm looking for positives in every possible candidate and defending them for no reason. Lord please help us.

[Hoosierfan2017]

13 minutes ago, Hoosier Guy said:

100% yes. When Crean's IU teams have reached the S16, they have looked completely inept in those games. You need an elite coach to feel like you have a chance in every single tournament game against elite competition. Where I partially disagree is that it absolutely matters to me that IU hasn't made it past the S16. That's one of the main reasons he should be gone. We know that is his ceiling at IU and that's simply not good enough

Oh it definitely bothers me that we haven't made it past the sweet 16. I'm just saying that if we had been competitive in those games, actually looked like we had chances to win, and just came up a little short then I would feel a little differently about Crean's ability to get it done in the postseason. Nothing in Crean's history here makes me think he can string a few neutral site wins together and get us deep in the tournament. Plus our weak scheduling screws us on seeding which just makes it even harder. 

[recker222000]

Who is iuwins0708? Some random jack wagon or somebody who is somewhat in the know? If iu wins the big ten tourney this year then i am convinced we are cursed

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Lol we would have to win five in a row. Not happening.

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[Hoosier Guy]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Oh it definitely bothers me that we haven't made it past the sweet 16. I'm just saying that if we had been competitive in those games, actually looked like we had chances to win, and just came up a little short then I would feel a little differently about Crean's ability to get it done in the postseason. Nothing in Crean's history here makes me think he can string a few neutral site wins together and get us deep in the tournament. Plus our weak scheduling screws us on seeding which just makes it even harder. 

Yes the scheduling just absolutely infuriates me. There is no reason IU should be playing such a low rated SOS schedule year in and year out. Any idiot should know that it definitely plays a factor in the tournament seeding

[coonhounds]

Lol we would have to win five in a row. Not happening.

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And if i said it was impossible you would be first one posting that it very likely could happen lol.

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