TOM CREAN FIRED

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I have played sports all my life. I am very competitive when I am playing. When I put in the time and I lose/lost I am the most unbearable person you will meet. That said I have been a Cubs, Bears, and Hoosier fan my whole life. I would go nuts if those teams losing kept me down. I just wouldn't watch. May not add up to others including yourself, but I am not manic riding the emotions of any sport like some people do. I don't fault them as that is how I am in the sports I am in. It's just not me. This is entertainment to me and always has been. My love for IU goes beyond basketball and before I went there.


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I can respect that.

I am a IU, Cubs, and Colts fan.

The Kris Bryant years were more fun and excitable than the Starlin Castro years

The Cody Zeller years more fun and excitable than the Noah Vonleh year.

The Peyton Manning years beat the heck out the last 2 Colts seasons.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I enjoy the heck out of good years. The bad years my connection lessens as it is less enjoyable.

This year has a ways to go but tomorrow's game would be different for me if we were a top 10 team than it is now. Maybe I'm alone in this. Apparently I am. Just thought it was human nature.


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[HoosierAloha]

Since it will come up later as an excuse. Is Colin Hartman a leader? Sure we miss his play but do you think of him as a leader and thus that missing piece?

I don't see him that way. He has his moments and is not opposed to leading but when someone later says when he went out we lost our leader I won't buy it.

It's part truth and part convenient excuse. Hartman isn't going to beat his man one on one to get a bucket in crunch time. He is one to make a hustle play to get an extra possession or a scrappy play.

It's a convenient excuse to say our lone senior is out and we're not playing well because of that. We're a young team because Crean recruited questionable characters or kids that got out. That's been a knock on Crean continuing to try and upgrade his rosters.

[Uspshoosier]

It's part truth and part convenient excuse. Hartman isn't going to beat his man one on one to get a bucket in crunch time. He is one to make a hustle play to get an extra possession or a scrappy play.

It's a convenient excuse to say our lone senior is out and we're not playing well because of that. We're a young team because Crean recruited questionable characters or kids that got out. That's been a knock on Crean continuing to try and upgrade his rosters.

I don't think it helps that he recruits really young kids in their class. A sophomore Bryant and OG are still younger then a freshman Davis.


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[GloryDays]

2 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

This is me too. I want to not watch just to prove some point. But I'll watch. I always do.

Problem is, it's a game we are supposed to win. Emotions will be either we did what we were Supposed to do or Fire Crean. Not excited about that.


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Beating A bad Illinois team after going 0 & 2 to start the race isn't going to make me feel any different about Crean.He has to go. 

[Hoosier_roots]

Here's an enjoyable video breaking down Coach Stevens out of bounds plays. It will make you laugh and it will make you cry.

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[mdn82]

I can respect that.

I am a IU, Cubs, and Colts fan.

The Kris Bryant years were more fun and excitable than the Starlin Castro years

The Cody Zeller years more fun and excitable than the Noah Vonleh year.

The Peyton Manning years beat the heck out the last 2 Colts seasons.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I enjoy the heck out of good years. The bad years my connection lessens as it is less enjoyable.

This year has a ways to go but tomorrow's game would be different for me if we were a top 10 team than it is now. Maybe I'm alone in this. Apparently I am. Just thought it was human nature.


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More fun and exciting are different to me. Not saying it's wrong for us to feel different. That's human nature. I respect that. Take for instance I was at the IU vs Louisville game with a family member and he was laughing at me that I still get goose bumps during the William Tell timeout. My grandpa used to have season tix before he passed and I went to IU. During the mid 80s/90s I probably went to 10 games per year without exaggeration. Then I went to school there from 2000-2005. Maybe it's a childhood thing, but it still excites me in person or on tv. I haven't missed a televised game since the mid 80s. I don't honestly know when and where the Bears came into the picture. The Cubs was my grandparents having a lake house we would go with them to during the summer and they would take us up to Cubs games cause it was cheap entertainment.


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[southernindianahoosier]

Here's an enjoyable video breaking down Coach Stevens out of bounds plays. It will make you laugh and it will make you cry.



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It was like watching a different sport.... Off ball screens, setting actual picks, allowing players to shoot 2s, good in-bound plays, calling time outs to make strategic substitutions, playing your 5 best players, setting up plays so that certain players get their shot so that they build confidence. The list goes on.

Maybe the biggest take away is that Stevens doesn't complain about his roster and doesn't make excuse after excuse. He simply works with what he has and produces....Crean on the other hand makes excuse after excuse after excuse: we're young, we're hurt, we lost our center last year unexpectedly, we didn't start out focused, so and so was sick. The excuse mentality Crean has is terrible and I hate it.

[MikeRoberts]

Pretty impressive video. Lots of movement and action off the ball. Wish we could run these types of plays for Blackmon and Davis

[recker222000]

Beating A bad Illinois team after going 0 & 2 to start the race isn't going to make me feel any different about Crean.He has to go. 

It could be the start of something special

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[Alford Bailey]

15 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Groce better tactician and bench coach really? If u would of said that about any other coach in the B1G I would of agree with u but groce makes crean look like a above average coach. Illinois has had 5 or 6 +25 losses in the last 12 months(2 last year to crean). Creans not the guy for here but man tough crowd when Groce is praised as a better option.


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Well, he drew up a heck of a play to beat Crean a couple years ago.

[Scooter D]

15 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Is anyone else generally unenthusiastic about the game tomorrow?

I hate that. We need a streak and a few unexpected wins to get me going again. Then again, is that really what I want? And I hate that even more.

My faith in Creans ability to recruit and coach is very low.

My faith in Crean to play the "it's us against the world" card and motivate an already talented team to do what they should be doing already is moderate to high.


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To be honest the IP-FW loss really did it for me, as I knew at that point this team is not competing for anything and Crean has not learned anything from the past seasons.  I am as huge of a fan as anyone, but I have become very apathetic toward watching a coach try the same thing over and over again and continuing to get the same results.  TBH I have not watched a full game since the UNC game and the last game that I watched live was the Butler game, but I knew by halftime that the show on the floor was not going to change and turned it off and spent my time doing something else instead of being PO'ed all night.  I have DVR'ed the last 4 games, but deleted them all once I learned the result without watching them.  

I think the talent is there, we just need someone who knows how to properly use it.  

[Scooter D]

And we play about as well at UI as we do in Indy, so no, not very optimistic about the game tomorrow.

[Str8Hoosiers]

1 minute ago, Scooter D said:

And we play about as well at UI as we do in Indy, so no, not very optimistic about the game tomorrow.

Game is today... and is at Home....

But Maybe that was the point... that you don't follow enough anymore to even know... ;)

[Scooter D]

8 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

Game is today... and is at Home....

But Maybe that was the point... that you don't follow enough anymore to even know... ;)

Ha!  Good point...totally blew that one.  

Point being that even when the program was blown to bits by...well...you know who...I would still get jacked up for those games and schedule my weekend around the games, but now as the program is back on its feet, I expected the coach to be able to evolve and adapt better to the players and opponents.  However, Crean's lack of adaptability and his "my system is better than yours and I am going to try to shove it down your throat even if it means losing" mentality is tiring and at the end of the is going to be a losing proposition more times than not against average to good coaches.  

Clearly we should have gotten Crean some books by or on some of the great business and military leaders for Christmas...but if he didn't learn anything from Izzo then better not to have wasted the cash.  

[recker222000]

To be honest the IP-FW loss really did it for me, as I knew at that point this team is not competing for anything and Crean has not learned anything from the past seasons.  I am as huge of a fan as anyone, but I have become very apathetic toward watching a coach try the same thing over and over again and continuing to get the same results.  TBH I have not watched a full game since the UNC game and the last game that I watched live was the Butler game, but I knew by halftime that the show on the floor was not going to change and turned it off and spent my time doing something else instead of being PO'ed all night.  I have DVR'ed the last 4 games, but deleted them all once I learned the result without watching them.  

I think the talent is there, we just need someone who knows how to properly use it.  

Tell glass that before he extends him in april.

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[recker222000]

And we play about as well at UI as we do in Indy, so no, not very optimistic about the game tomorrow.

Illinois is awful. If we lose this game the bottom has clearly fallen out.

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[BGleas]

14 hours ago, 8bucks said:

Since it will come up later as an excuse. Is Colin Hartman a leader? Sure we miss his play but do you think of him as a leader and thus that missing piece?

I don't see him that way. He has his moments and is not opposed to leading but when someone later says when he went out we lost our leader I won't buy it.

 

14 hours ago, 8bucks said:

Since it will come up later as an excuse. Is Colin Hartman a leader? Sure we miss his play but do you think of him as a leader and thus that missing piece?

I don't see him that way. He has his moments and is not opposed to leading but when someone later says when he went out we lost our leader I won't buy it.

Leaders come in different packages. Just because a guy doesn't scream in your face or isn't the guy you go to offensively for the big bucket doesn't mean he's not one of the main leaders or important players. 

I remember my my freshmen year of college, I was a lot like Hartman. I was a 6'6" SF/SG and averaged 28mpg even though I only averaged 5ppg. We had a 1,000 pt senior pg and an all-conference PF and at the end of the year someone asked my coach who the one player was that he was always afraid to take out of the game, and he said me. 

I only bring this up for the comparison, because the reason was that while I wasn't a big scorer or our go-to guy that year, I was always in the right place, always knew when we should push the tempo, when we should reset and hold for a good shot, I just knew what the coach wanted, where everyone should be, and always played hard. I didn't talk much or get in people's faces or take the last shot. 

Im im not saying we're 14-1 with Hartman necessarily, but that's what people are talking about when they say missing his leadership. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

What BGleas just described in his last paragraph is a high basketball IQ and we just aren't seeing that from this year's team.

[8bucks]

Leaders come in different packages. Just because a guy doesn't scream in your face or isn't the guy you go to offensively for the big bucket doesn't mean he's not one of the main leaders or important players. 

I remember my my freshmen year of college, I was a lot like Hartman. I was a 6'6" SF/SG and averaged 28mpg even though I only averaged 5ppg. We had a 1,000 pt senior pg and an all-conference PF and at the end of the year someone asked my coach who the one player was that he was always afraid to take out of the game, and he said me. 

I only bring this up for the comparison, because the reason was that while I wasn't a big scorer or our go-to guy that year, I was always in the right place, always knew when we should push the tempo, when we should reset and hold for a good shot, I just knew what the coach wanted, where everyone should be, and always played hard. I didn't talk much or get in people's faces or take the last shot. 

Im im not saying we're 14-1 with Hartman necessarily, but that's what people are talking about when they say missing his leadership. 

I agree with you. I think a team can have a leader from any position but with Creans teams, it seems you generally need one of the best players to be that leader. Crean seems to give minutes, green lights and favoritism to certain players. If one of those is not a natural leader we have problems.

I would argue that Yogi was a favored player all 4 years but only really became a leader his senior year. You can try to lead all you want but if you play with little effort on D guys see through it. Last year Yogis D was much much better and that gave emphasis to his words.

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

I agree with you. I think a team can have a leader from any position but with Creans teams, it seems you generally need one of the best players to be that leader. Crean seems to give minutes, green lights and favoritism to certain players. If one of those is not a natural leader we have problems.

I would argue that Yogi was a favored player all 4 years but only really became a leader his senior year. You can try to lead all you want but if you play with little effort on D guys see through it. Last year Yogis D was much much better and that gave emphasis to his words.

Agree, but that's why I think Hartman actually is a leader on this team. He always plays hard, always gives full effort, plays a lot minutes, and I do remember him directing guys a lot last year. We definitely miss that. 

One thing I always thought weird about Yogi was why did it take him so long to develop as a leader? He seemed tailor made to be one of those natural leaders and he was a point guard that started four years. Yet, he seemed to struggle with it until the second half of his senior year.