TOM CREAN FIRED

[IU - Kaulie]

What if we lose this weekend or to another cupcake?  Btw I love cupcakes!!::)) 

Will this be expedited?

[AZ Hoosier]

Just saw this on "The Hoosier Scoop"... I'd say the wheels are already fully off...

http://scoop.hoosiershq.com/2015/12/trending-now-iu-basketball-news-and-notes-20/

“(The Hoosiers) were humiliated on national television on Wednesday night, putting their season at a crossroads. If things don’t change, if the Hoosiers can’t figure out a way to play with pride defensively, they’re going to end up missing the NCAA tournament.

And (Tom) Crean may not be able to last the season in the pressure-cooker that Bloomington has become.” — NBCSports.com writer Rob Dauster.

“To say Tom Crean’s Hoosiers played matador defense against Duke would be insulting to the matador who at least on occasion gets close to the bull.” — ESPN.com writer Dana O’Neil.

“How did a team that was re-tooling after a national championship (Duke) deliver a historic scorching of an opponent that had least three NBA-level athletes and was ranked No. 15 in the preseason (Indiana)?” — SI.com writer Luke Winn.

[KingPG21]

So with all the talks of the Celtics and how they have all Brooklyn's picks for the next 100 years, you have to admit: The Nets made out like bandits, managing to lose in the playoffs to the Heat in honor of never getting to draft again

[TheWatShot]

I sure hope so. When he took the Celts job, it looked like Crean may've turned the corner and resurrected the sleeping giant. Now is the chance for Bra to come home and be the savior. 

 

That's what I've tried telling myself. Any halfway decent coach that built a preseason #1 and isn't criminally incompetent wouldn't be on the hot seat just two years later. Stevens might have figured the job wouldn't be open for a long, long time. 

[JSHoosier]

I sure hope so. When he took the Celts job, it looked like Crean may've turned the corner and resurrected the sleeping giant. Now is the chance for Bra to come home and be the savior. 

Instead the giant swatted Crean away like an annoying little gnat, then rolled over and went back to sleep.

[8bucks]

Ay yi yi. I get Crean needs to be gone. We've known that for a long time. He should be held accountable. But this mentality, this approach, just tells me there isn't going to be anyway to convince you or anyone else that the players need to be held accountable for A LOT of what is going on. I'll have more pleasant days when all 3 "leaders" are gone and making their money somewhere else.

And before someone responds with the "Crean recruited them" line....I'm aware, I follow it pretty closely :stop:

Good perspective. It seems there have been 5 groups recruited by Crean. First group was just to fill spots. Certainly no issues here. Second group included VO, Will, Wat, Cody and Hulls. Big winner.

The third group, the movement. Bust, these happen but we had such momentum and poof. The fourth group was Troy, Stan, Noah, Max, RoJo and James. Again, it seems to have some great talent but leadership and off court threaten their contributions.

The last group are our freshman and I will wait on them.

So my question for you Pap is - do you think Crean will find more groups like VOs group or more like the movement and the post movement?

If he had 2 strong groups and one dud I would be more patient

[hoosierpap]

Good perspective. It seems there have been 5 groups recruited by Crean. First group was just to fill spots. Certainly no issues here. Second group included VO, Will, Wat, Cody and Hulls. Big winner.

The third group, the movement. Bust, these happen but we had such momentum and poof. The fourth group was Troy, Stan, Noah, Max, RoJo and James. Again, it seems to have some great talent but leadership and off court threaten their contributions.

The last group are our freshman and I will wait on them.

So my question for you Pap is - do you think Crean will find more groups like VOs group or more like the movement and the post movement?

If he had 2 strong groups and one dud I would be more patient

I think recruiting under Crean is fairly grim at this point and will remain that way until he starts winning. Obviously, on the court success or, at least, the idea of potential success has a strong connection to recruiting momentum. You've also got the hot seat stuff. IU does have one of the easiest B10 schedules possible so it's possible it turns around but not looking great.

 

As to who he recruits...I think this and next year is unique in that he has a lot of high quality options in his backyard for '17. I say high quality as both on and off the court. I think looking beyond his '17 recruiting is probably a waste of time with the way things are. 

[HoosierTrav]

The thought for Glass needs to be: Is there anyway Crean can win back the fanbase?

It almost seems it's beyond repair at this point. I don't honestly know HOW much winning it will take to gain the faith of the fanbase again. I can't even answer that question on my own as a fan. I really don't know what it would take to be won back.

This season will be interesting because either we tank and the decision is very easy. We win some and it's still fairly easy or we win enough to get like a 5 or 6 seed and the fanbase doesn't rally but the results are decent. Going to be interesting for sure.

I've been lost forever. Even if he were to miraculously make a final four this season, he has not given any proof that he can sustain even a small amount of success at a program where he has every resource at his disposal. The fact that numerous coaches are doing much more with far less, is all I need to see. Mid major Xavier University has experienced more sustained success than Indiana in the last decade. That's insane to me.

[hoosierpap]

I'm also not sure that answered your question lol I think I just went off on a tangent?

[8bucks]

I think recruiting under Crean is fairly grim at this point and will remain that way until he starts winning. Obviously, on the court success or, at least, the idea of potential success has a strong connection to recruiting momentum. You've also got the hot seat stuff. IU does have one of the easiest B10 schedules possible so it's possible it turns around but not looking great.

As to who he recruits...I think this and next year is unique in that he has a lot of high quality options in his backyard for '17. I say high quality as both on and off the court. I think looking beyond his '17 recruiting is probably a waste of time with the way things are.

Hypothetically - if the hot seat weren't a problem do you think he can deliver more contenders or does the churn and broad recruiting lead to more pretenders.

I agree though about the challenges he faces now

[HoosierTrav]

I sure hope so. When he took the Celts job, it looked like Crean may've turned the corner and resurrected the sleeping giant. Now is the chance for Bra to come home and be the savior.

You can add the D to his name. His teams play defense

[hoosierpap]

I've been lost forever. Even if he were to miraculously make a final four this season, he has not given any proof that he can sustain even a small amount of success at a program where he has every resource at his disposal. The fact that numerous coaches are doing much more with far less, is all I need to see. Mid major Xavier University has experienced more sustained success than Indiana in the last decade. That's insane to me.

Here's the problem, Trav. The administration and BOT does not have the same expectations for the basketball team as you, me, or most people on this board do. They are looking at different factors and not relying solely on on the court results. Fortunately, while they're in "power" they'll go where the money goes. The money just needs to talk. 

[OliviaPope40]

No wonder I haven't been able to sleep.

[LIHoosier]

Here's the problem, Trav. The administration and BOT does not have the same expectations for the basketball team as you, me, or most people on this board do. They are looking at different factors and not relying solely on on the court results. Fortunately, while they're in "power" they'll go where the money goes. The money just needs to talk. 

Well, based on reports a good chunk of the "money" was at Cameron last night. Any news on the mindset of the "money"?

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Ay yi yi. I get Crean needs to be gone. We've known that for a long time. He should be held accountable. But this mentality, this approach, just tells me there isn't going to be anyway to convince you or anyone else that the players need to be held accountable for A LOT of what is going on. I'll have more pleasant days when all 3 "leaders" are gone and making their money somewhere else.

And before someone responds with the "Crean recruited them" line....I'm aware, I follow it pretty closely :stop:

2 interesting thoughts here.
1. "Making their money somewhere else". Interesting phrasing.
2. The leader must shoulder the blame, they/he have full control of who plays, when, how much, who transfers, what plays are called, etc, etc.

Other good programs don't go multiple years underperforming. Hard for me to put blame on kids when adults have complete control of decisions.

Double edit- i realize the players attitude/work ethic/IQ etc is part of the blame and problem but ultimately to me that still falls on the Coach when it's the majority of the team vs an individual or 2.

[hoosierpap]

Hypothetically - if the hot seat weren't a problem do you think he can deliver more contenders or does the churn and broad recruiting lead to more pretenders.

I agree though about the challenges he faces now

He would continue to recruit well from a talent standpoint, I have little doubt about that. 

 

Contenders vs Pretenders? Well, they have talent. So to me it turns into can you get the guys to buy in or are they going to play for themselves. As a coach, you have to recruit the divas with the idea that they will buy in and I'd say they generally do. So contenders, I'd say. 

[hoosierpap]

Well, based on reports a good chunk of the "money" was at Cameron last night. Any news on the mindset of the "money"?

Heard that. I don't have a connection to anyone that was there but may be able to get a general vibe after last night. 

[HoosierTrav]

Honestly for Brad Stevens and a harsh reality of the NBA eastern conference.. As long as Lebron is in the east you aren't winning ****.

So true. I remember arguing with an extreme Lebron hater like 5 years ago. They claimed he wasn't the best in the league and that Rose was. I argued that the best player in the league often ends up in the NBA finals most seasons. The league is a players league and the best of the best continually shine. How many straight finals has Lebron been in?...... As long as he's healthy the eastern conference is his. Brad won't change that unless he gets a top 3 talent and a supporting cast to support him. Brad can, on the other hand, come to a place like Indiana and cement a far greater legacy without having to recruit the very best players. He can actually have a say in how high his ceiling can be. The college game is a coaches game and I'm not sure there are many willing to argue against that. The biggest obstacle in getting him to Bloomington is convincing his family (wife) that this is the best place for him. The best way to do that is to give him an enormous contract that is guaranteed for a longer than usual time period (10 years) We have to push all of our chips in the middle of the table here. We cannot afford any mistakes on this one.

[hoosierpap]

2 interesting thoughts here.
1. "Making their money somewhere else". Interesting phrasing.
2. The leader must shoulder the blame, they/he have full control of who plays, when, how much, who transfers, what plays are called, etc, etc.

Other good programs don't go multiple years underperforming. Hard for me to put blame on kids when adults have complete control of decisions.

Double edit- i realize the players attitude/work ethic/IQ etc is part of the blame and problem but ultimately to me that still falls on the Coach when it's the majority of the team vs an individual or 2.

Imo, and as it relates to this team, there is one individual who has perpetuated this through the team. And you've got two other goofballs who aren't being held accountable by him. And the whole damn thing  permeates through after that. Can you imagine being OG/TB/JW and looking up to that group. Good god. 

 

I get what you're saying, Wayne. It's going to be hard to find the last time I defended Crean. And Crean does hold the ultimate accountability. But to feel bad for these players, i can't get on board with that. They deserve quite a bit of the blame from my perspective. 

[LIHoosier]

I didn't know where else to post this...but a "Stripe-Out" for Morehead St??? What in heavens do we do when Northwestern or Nebrasketball come to town?