Hoosiers need to grow up

[ThompsonHoosier 3,414]

You write a book.

Hey you're not my mom!!!

[JSHoosier 20,280]

Every time this debate starts there are posters that jump to the extreme that we want Crean only recruiting the Midwest.  No one, not a single poster, not even Old Friend, has said to recruit ONLY the Midwest.  What he has said, and I've said it too, is that Indiana and the Midwest should be the priority.  Saying that recruiting area should be the priority and saying we should only recruit that area are not the same thing.

 

BTW, Crean's nationwide recruiting approach has led to him being very mediocre over the course of his career.  If he was capable of adjusting maybe he should try a different approach, his current one hasn't worked very well.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Every time this debate starts there are posters that jump to the extreme that we want Crean only recruiting the Midwest. No one, not a single poster, not even Old Friend, has said to recruit ONLY the Midwest. What he has said, and I've said it too, is that Indiana and the Midwest should be the priority. Saying that recruiting area should be the priority and saying we should only recruit that area are not the same thing.

BTW, Crean's nationwide recruiting approach has led to him being very mediocre over the course of his career. If he was capable of adjusting maybe he should try a different approach, his current one hasn't worked very well.

His recruiting is not his problem as a coach.

[JSHoosier 20,280]

His recruiting is not his problem as a coach.

Some of the problems he's had do fall on recruiting.  When he puts teams on the floor that have a glaring weakness, when he gets players that aren't a fit for his system it absolutely falls on recruiting.  There is more to recruiting than just getting good players to sign.

 

And yes he could improve those things without changing his focus area, but that doesn't change my opinion that IN and the Midwest should be the top priority.  Crean said himself he was going to lock down the borders, which lasted until he saw a player on the East Coast that could jump.

[Josh 12,649]

It's time.

[Old Friend 8,389]

His recruiting is not his problem as a coach.

It's not his only problem, but to say it's not a problem isn't accurate in my opinion.   Getting enough kids to say yes so you can put a team on the floor does not make you a good recruiter.  He took Indiana from the bottom of nowhere to the top; and immediately back down to an 8th place season followed by a 7th place season.    I can accept one year as a rebuild when you lose what we lost, but two is inexcusable, especially since we had no size last year, no alternative to handling the ball after Yogi, and we couldn't guard anyone or rebound consistently.   Getting kids to say "yes" doesn't make anyone an effective recruiter; and when Indiana is having to go get kids like Priller and April, I don't understand why anyone would say recruiting isn't a problem for Crean.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

It's not his only problem, but to say it's not a problem isn't accurate in my opinion. Getting enough kids to say yes so you can put a team on the floor does not make you a good recruiter. He took Indiana from the bottom of nowhere to the top; and immediately back down to an 8th place season followed by a 7th place season. I can accept one year as a rebuild when you lose what we lost, but two is inexcusable, especially since we had no size last year, no alternative to handling the ball after Yogi, and we couldn't guard anyone or rebound consistently. Getting kids to say "yes" doesn't make anyone an effective recruiter; and when Indiana is having to go get kids like Priller and April, I don't understand why anyone would say recruiting isn't a problem for Crean.

The amount of time you've focused on discussing recruiting as his problem does not align with its relative importance. He recruits well. Could it be better? Sure.

There are much more important failures he needs to fix as a coach that would have a greater impact on his overall success.

[Old Friend 8,389]

The amount of time you've focused on discussing recruiting as his problem does not align with its relative importance. He recruits well. Could it be better? Sure.

There are much more important failures he needs to fix as a coach that would have a greater impact on his overall success.

Disagree.  I think his recruiting, had it been better, could have covered up a lot of his deficiencies.   It did in 2012 and 2013.   He recruits with a shotgun and just hopes enough kids say yes.  He has done nothing to build successful teams, nothing to build rosters that can turn over year after year and sustain even respectability by our standards; let alone excellence.  He's not a good coach.  I know.   But...he's also not a good recruiter; and that's a huge problem.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Does anyone else hear a broken record?

How don't some people get tired of typing the same thing constantly

[Dalton26 16,892]

Disagree. I think his recruiting, had it been better, could have covered up a lot of his deficiencies. It did in 2012 and 2013. He recruits with a shotgun and just hopes enough kids say yes. He has done nothing to build successful teams, nothing to build rosters that can turn over year after year and sustain even respectability by our standards; let alone excellence. He's not a good coach. I know. But...he's also not a good recruiter; and that's a huge problem.

I see a lot of people give Crean a pass on recruiting and I'll never understand why.

[OliviaPope40 6,532]

Can we not turn this into a bashing thread. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Disagree. I think his recruiting, had it been better, could have covered up a lot of his deficiencies. It did in 2012 and 2013. He recruits with a shotgun and just hopes enough kids say yes. He has done nothing to build successful teams, nothing to build rosters that can turn over year after year and sustain even respectability by our standards; let alone excellence. He's not a good coach. I know. But...he's also not a good recruiter; and that's a huge problem.

Oh really? In 2012-2013 when we had the best team in the nation with Zelller as a sophomore and Yogi as a freshman, supported by some excellent role players, his recruiting is what could have advanced us further? In 2013-2014 when we sucked with two McDAA's in the starting lineup, and we only won 19 games, his recruiting could have saved us?

Wrong on all counts, my Old Friend. His recruiting has been excellent , especially given his inability to strategically coach a team to victory.

He has had some incredibly talented teams that could have won it all at the collegiate level. He's just not that great of an in-game coach. That is where he fails. We haven't put a bad team on the floor since 2010. He just isn't great at utilizing the talent he recruits.

Focus on his strategy instead of his recruiting, and more people will agree with you.

[Old Friend 8,389]

Oh really? In 2012-2013 when we had the best team in the nation with Zelller as a sophomore and Yogi as a freshman, supported by some excellent role players, his recruiting is what could have advanced us further? In 2013-2014 when we sucked with two McDAA's in the starting lineup, and we only won 19 games, his recruiting could have saved us?

Wrong on all counts, my Old Friend. His recruiting has been excellent , especially given his inability to strategically coach a team to victory.

He has had some incredibly talented teams that could have won it all at the collegiate level. He's just not that great of an in-game coach. That is where he fails. We haven't put a bad team on the floor since 2010. He just isn't great at utilizing the talent he recruits.

Focus on his strategy instead of his recruiting, and more people will agree with you.

I don't care one bit who agrees with me; but for what it's worth, I was focused on his strategy 5 years ago and got crushed for pointing out his shortcomings.   Nobody agreed with me then...and they didn't agree with me in 2012-2013 when talent covered him, but they sure do now.    You and others see now what I was saying when I watched Verdell Jones stand on offense for 20 seconds every possession and I saw no movement away from the ball, etc.  I get it.  Crean's not a great or even a good coach sometimes.

 

That said, my point is simply his recruiting of great players covered up his deficiencies as a coach for a couple of seasons.   That's wrong?    Really?   I agreed with the statement in bold you made above; so if I'm wrong....you are also.    The 2013-2014 team was a bad team.  We had one ball handler and no shooters.   We had a decent collection of talent, but a bad team.   Better coaching would have helped, but a better job putting together a team would have, also.

 

Had he done a better job recruiting, yes, that team could have done better.  Talent covers up for a lot.  I've made that argument several times....that team could have been better on its own, and would have been were Crean a better coach.  No question, and I agree with everything you said (in fact, you could have copy/pasted things I said at the time and since.  Look that up...I couldn't agree more).   But when you recruit kids like Hanner Parea, for example, you get a highly ranked kid who didn't deserve the ranking and had not one skill set that could help your team; you get called a great recruiter, but you've really done nothing but take a team backward.  Had he done a better job recruiting and building rosters that fit his style and understood the game a little better than Parea did (for example), his teams would likely have achieved better results.  I'd love an explanation for why you think that's wrong.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

If you haven't, watch today's snap story. Great content today. The team is working with school children, teaching them about hardwork, dedication, and greatness. Real inspirational stuff.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I don't care one bit who agrees with me; but for what it's worth, I was focused on his strategy 5 years ago and got crushed for pointing out his shortcomings. Nobody agreed with me then...and they didn't agree with me in 2012-2013 when talent covered him, but they sure do now. You and others see now what I was saying when I watched Verdell Jones stand on offense for 20 seconds every possession and I saw no movement away from the ball, etc. I get it. Crean's not a great or even a good coach sometimes.

His recruiting of great players covered up his deficiencies as a coach for a couple of seasons. That's wrong? Really? I agreed with the statement in bold you made above; so if I'm wrong....you are also. The 2013-2014 team was a bad team. We had one ball handler and no shooters. We had a decent collection of talent, but a bad team. Better coaching would have helped, but a better job putting together a team would have, also.

Had he done a better job recruiting, yes, that team could have done better. Talent covers up for a lot. I've made that argument several times....that team could have been better on its own. No question, and I agree with everything you said (in fact, you could have copy/pasted things I said at the time and since). But when you recruit kids like Hanner Parea, for example, you get a highly ranked kid who didn't deserve the ranking and had not one skill set that could help your team; you get called a great recruiter, but you've really done nothing but take a team backward. Had he done a better job recruiting and building rosters that fit his style and understood the game a little better than Parea did (for example), his teams would likely have achieved better results. I'd love an explanation for why you think that's wrong.

Once again, recruiting is not his problem. He could have recruited the same squads Duke and UK recruited, and we still would have lost. His issues are in in-game coaching, not recruiting.

[Old Friend 8,389]

Once again, recruiting is not his problem. He could have recruited the same squads Duke and UK recruited, and we still would have lost. His issues are in in-game coaching, not recruiting.

And...once again.  It is "a" problem.  It is not his only problem.   He does not have just one problem.  He has many.   His ability to build a "team" and also his ability to recruit so he doesn't have significant peaks and valleys are problems.   So is his coaching ability.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

And...once again. It is "a" problem. It is not his only problem. He does not have just one problem. He has many. His ability to build a "team" and also his ability to recruit so he doesn't have significant peaks and valleys are problems. So is his coaching ability.

Recruiting and player development are his strengths. In-game coaching and system development are his weaknesses.

[JSHoosier 20,280]

Can we not turn this into a bashing thread. 

It's criticism, it's not bashing.  If I said he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag that would be bashing, saying we overrate one of his strengths isn't.

[JSHoosier 20,280]

I see a lot of people give Crean a pass on recruiting and I'll never understand why.

Because he's gotten some good players to sign.  They ignore that he's put horridly constructed teams on the floor, they ignore that he's gotten a bunch of players that either don't fit his system or have no business playing at this level; both of which fall squarely on his recruiting.

 

Another knock on his recruiting is the 2012 class which has been a complete bust outside of one player.

[BGleas 7,917]

Yes, better recruiting could have made 12-13 and 13-14 better. While talented, we brought in some questionable character guys over that time period that have really set things back. Realize the issues with Hollowell and Buss Patterson, and hold that slot open for Gary Harris and I think we potentially go further in 12-13 and we certainly would have been better in 13-14.

I realize you're not going to hit on every recruit, but there have been several blunders as well. I'd say Crean is a good recruiter, but he's not a great one IMO.

Oh really? In 2012-2013 when we had the best team in the nation with Zelller as a sophomore and Yogi as a freshman, supported by some excellent role players, his recruiting is what could have advanced us further? In 2013-2014 when we sucked with two McDAA's in the starting lineup, and we only won 19 games, his recruiting could have saved us?
Wrong on all counts, my Old Friend. His recruiting has been excellent , especially given his inability to strategically coach a team to victory.
He has had some incredibly talented teams that could have won it all at the collegiate level. He's just not that great of an in-game coach. That is where he fails. We haven't put a bad team on the floor since 2010. He just isn't great at utilizing the talent he recruits.
Focus on his strategy instead of his recruiting, and more people will agree with you.