Hoosiers need to grow up

[Alford Bailey 12,387]

Because he's gotten some good players to sign.  They ignore that he's put horridly constructed teams on the floor, they ignore that he's gotten a bunch of players that either don't fit his system or have no business playing at this level; both of which fall squarely on his recruiting.

 

Another knock on his recruiting is the 2012 class which has been a complete bust outside of one player.

Wait, I thought playing Colin Hartman at center gave us a mismatch....... somewhere.

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

Oh, it did create mismatches!

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,438]

Crean is a solid recruiter, not Great. Tons of bad recruiting decisions regarding team makeup. Huge amount of primary (heavily invested) recruiting target misses. Roster turnover, etc...

Player development is his best attribute.

[mdn82 25,510]

Yes, better recruiting could have made 12-13 and 13-14 better. While talented, we brought in some questionable character guys over that time period that have really set things back. Realize the issues with Hollowell and Buss Patterson, and hold that slot open for Gary Harris and I think we potentially go further in 12-13 and we certainly would have been better in 13-14.

I realize you're not going to hit on every recruit, but there have been several blunders as well. I'd say Crean is a good recruiter, but he's not a great one IMO.

In fairness there was a slot for Gary Harris and it was real close to him coming here. That OV to MSU sealed it. Us having a slot wasn't the reason he didn't come here.

[mdn82 25,510]

Crean is a solid recruiter, not Great. Tons of bad recruiting decisions regarding team makeup. Huge amount of primary (heavily invested) recruiting target misses. Roster turnover, etc...

Player development is his best attribute.

My biggest beef with Crean beyond coaching has been character and roster turnover. Although if you depend on roster development as much as he does he would not be easy to play for. Character makes or breaks a team. Misses? Meh when you are going after top talent that will happen. Glad he is going after top talent. Can't stop going after talented kids just because they say no.

[JSHoosier 20,280]

Crean is a solid recruiter, not Great. Tons of bad recruiting decisions regarding team makeup. Huge amount of primary (heavily invested) recruiting target misses. Roster turnover, etc...

Player development is his best attribute.

Even then his player development is mainly perimeter players IMO.

[Alford Bailey 12,387]

Even then his player development is mainly perimeter players IMO.

Yes, and I'm not sure we talk about his player development minus VO.

[mdn82 25,510]

Yes, and I'm not sure we talk about his player development minus VO.

I would probably disagree with that. The improvement of Hulls, VJ3, Williams, Yogi (the shooter), and even Sheehey minus his Senior year. I thought all of those players improved immensely in different areas throughout their time. Whether or not we like how they were used is another story. Jordy and his ability to stay on the floor at both ends of the floor were amazing starting with his Junior season. As a freshman I though he would be a sharpshooter at best. Yogi has improved incredibly as a shooter. Last year he dribbled less than his Vonleh season. Now the frontcourt? That's another story. I think Crean has spent more time trying to get them away from the basket than not.

[Alford Bailey 12,387]

I would probably disagree with that. The improvement of Hulls, VJ3, Williams, Yogi (the shooter), and even Sheehey minus his Senior year. I thought all of those players improved immensely in different areas throughout their time. Whether or not we like how they were used is another story. Jordy and his ability to stay on the floor at both ends of the floor were amazing starting with his Junior season. As a freshman I though he would be a sharpshooter at best. Yogi has improved incredibly as a shooter. Last year he dribbled less than his Vonleh season. Now the frontcourt? That's another story. I think Crean has spent more time trying to get them away from the basket than not.

No argument on Yogi. I think Troys game is still based on being a superior athlete. Hope he goes to the next level ( like VO) this year. I think Hulls, VJ3 and WS were guys who got better by hard work and the huge number of minutes they played on those really bad teams against good competition. Not saying Crean had no impact just think it is way overstated.

[mdn82 25,510]

No argument on Yogi. I think Troys game is still based on being a superior athlete. Hope he goes to the next level ( like VO) this year. I think Hulls, VJ3 and WS were guys who got better by hard work and the huge number of minutes they played on those really bad teams against good competition. Not saying Crean had no impact just think it is way overstated.

Thats fair but outside of VJ3 I think the others put up their best numbers on good teams. Part of having good player development is getting the workers who buy in. That is part of my character issue I have with recruiting. We aren't going after players who fit in to our strengths. Look at the 2012 and 2013 class. Pretty low turnout for gym rats. I count Yogi, Hartman, and Troy as the only ones considered "gym rats". That's like Shaka Smart recruiting finesse players to play his Havoc scheme. Wouldn't make any sense.

[Alford Bailey 12,387]

Thats fair but outside of VJ3 I think the others put up their best numbers on good teams. Part of having good player development is getting the workers who buy in. That is part of my character issue I have with recruiting. We aren't going after players who fit in to our strengths. Look at the 2012 and 2013 class. Pretty low turnout for gym rats. I count Yogi, Hartman, and Troy as the only ones considered "gym rats". That's like Shaka Smart recruiting finesse players to play his Havoc scheme. Wouldn't make any sense.

I remember back in  2011-12 how bright the future looked recruiting wise. What I failed to consider was any character issues as you pointed out. And that has made a difference.

[mdn82 25,510]

I remember back in 2011-12 how bright the future looked recruiting wise. What I failed to consider was any character issues as you pointed out. And that has made a difference.

That has drove me as nuts as anything. IMO That is Crean's biggest issue. He doesn't know how to build a team. It's not an area recruiting issue. It's a type of person issue.

[BGleas 7,917]

I could be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure when Harris made his commitment our class was already Yogi, Perea, Jurkin, Hollowell and Patterson, which already had us 1 over the limit. I know the coaches were telling him he had a slot, but that not the same as actually having one open.

In fairness there was a slot for Gary Harris and it was real close to him coming here. That OV to MSU sealed it. Us having a slot wasn't the reason he didn't come here.

[mdn82 25,510]

I could be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure when Harris made his commitment our class was already Yogi, Perea, Jurkin, Hollowell and Patterson, which already had us 1 over the limit. I know the coaches were telling him he had a slot, but that not the same as actually having one open.
 

 

While this is true.  These players were committed.  He knew who was gone if he came.  There was never a concern from the Harris family how he would get there.  Roth was going to be gone.  Most thought he was coming back.  When Buss didn't qualify they didn't have to make the move they were going to, that would have brought him in.  But I do know for a fact the Harris family wasn't worried about where his spot was coming from.  Beyond that, when the coaches tell a top 15 kid in the country he has a spot, one is open.  Its the others already on the team who would have been more worried.  At the time there was talk of Zeller paying his own way (but I don't know that to be true or not).  The only thing I know for certain this was never a concern. 

[OliviaPope40 6,532]

We're very good at keeping threads on topic.

[mdn82 25,510]

We're very good at keeping threads on topic.

Yes we are Olivia. Please stay on topic Olivia.

[Old Friend 8,389]

No argument on Yogi. I think Troys game is still based on being a superior athlete. Hope he goes to the next level ( like VO) this year. I think Hulls, VJ3 and WS were guys who got better by hard work and the huge number of minutes they played on those really bad teams against good competition. Not saying Crean had no impact just think it is way overstated.

Troy has really good instincts, too.  He's not close to as good a ballplayer as Alan Henderson was, but he has the same ability to be at the right place at the right time.  He is around the ball all the time and he anticipates well.   He's very good at getting the ball on a break and playing 94 feet; and he can do that while seeing the floor.  He hits cutters as well as anybody we have, save Yogi.  He needs a ton of work with his fundamentals and especially his footwork and shooting; but he's a solid basketball player in that he absolutely understands how to play the game.   The differentiator there is the "sport" of basketball, which would relate to his athletic ability vs. the game, which relates to his understanding of how to do things below the rim, without the ball, etc.