The sky is falling

[The Baby Bull 280]

why count anyone's stats then because I could be wrong but every team plays "cupcakes" in the beginning of the season that inflates stats

We play so many we could have a spot on the Food Channel

[Uspshoosier 45,498]

We play so many we could have a spot on the Food Channel

i know I can't believe we played Loyola, Santa clara, rider,Arkansas pine bluff,Oakland, Texas southern (L), and the citadel this year......oops my mistake I must of pulled up Michigan st schedule.
I meant I can't believe we played No Kentucky, Chattanooga , Milwaukee, buffalo, or nicholls st ....oops that's was wiskys
If we have spot on food network I guess these 2 have of slot on before or after our spot.
Do we need to trim some off our schedule? Absolutely but just glance at some other schools schedule, it's not just ours (Ohio states)

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

Defense, is probably one of the easiest, if not THE easiest part of the game to teach. What's difficult is convincing your players to actually do it, then holding them accountable when they don't. Defense doesn't always need great athletes, or kids with 7' wingspans, (though that's nice to have), but it takes desire and commitment. Knight used to sit your ass on the pine if you wouldn't give your all on defense. And if you still wouldn't play defense, you might as well transfer.

There really is no excuse for the lack of defense this team shows. In my opinion, it's on Crean. He either holds them accountable for it, or he doesn't. Perhaps he isn't as concerned with defense, thinking it might usurp energy from his players when on offense; who knows? Either way, there's no excuse.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Defense, is probably one of the easiest, if not THE easiest part of the game to teach. What's difficult is convincing your players to actually do it, then holding them accountable when they don't. Defense doesn't always need great athletes, or kids with 7' wingspans, (though that's nice to have), but it takes desire and commitment. Knight used to sit your ass on the pine if you wouldn't give your all on defense. And if you still wouldn't play defense, you might as well transfer.
There really is no excuse for the lack of defense this team shows. In my opinion, it's on Crean. He either holds them accountable for it, or he doesn't. Perhaps he isn't as concerned with defense, thinking it might usurp energy from his players when on offense; who knows? Either way, there's no excuse.

I agree with everything you just said. But, I don't think this is something to plant squarely on Crean. He can only control what he can control, so if he's not doing what he needs to to hold these kids accountable, then he is 100% failing. The kids also have control over this. If they aren't holding themselves and each other accountable, and giving it everything they've got, they are 100% failing as well. This is truly a team failure, not just coach and not just players.

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

I agree with everything you just said. But, I don't think this is something to plant squarely on Crean. He can only control what he can control, so if he's not doing what he needs to to hold these kids accountable, then he is 100% failing. The kids also have control over this. If they aren't holding themselves and each other accountable, and giving it everything they've got, they are 100% failing as well. This is truly a team failure, not just coach and not just players.

I wish I could agree with you, but ultimately, everything must be placed on Crean's shoulders. He recruited these kids, has presumably taught these kids, and fair or unfair, is responsible for their actions on and off the court. Their play on the court is maddening. Even in a win, (a win I might point out that came at home against a team so decimated by injuries and graduations as to render them pathetic), they show a complete indifference to defense, and make so many fundamental errors in ball handling as to be embarrassing. I say embarrassing, not because I think badly of the kids, but because by this time in their careers, basketball players with any degree of coaching and DISCIPLINE, should not be found to be jumping up, ball in hand, without the first clue as to where to pass the ball. I say, sit their asses down on the bench until they've figured it out. No defense? No PT. Jump passes, no PT. Poor decisions from the PG, no PT. In essence, real costs for shoddy, sloppy play. If you have to start the last five guys on the bench, including the ball boy and team manager, better to get the message across, than to let them continue to replicate such sloppy habits.

That is why this is 100% Crean's problem, and Crean's fault for not taking the necessary steps to fix it.

[ashmgee 193]

My thoughts exactly TrueHoosier62.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I wish I could agree with you, but ultimately, everything must be placed on Crean's shoulders. He recruited these kids, has presumably taught these kids, and fair or unfair, is responsible for their actions on and off the court. Their play on the court is maddening. Even in a win, (a win I might point out that came at home against a team so decimated by injuries and graduations as to render them pathetic), they show a complete indifference to defense, and make so many fundamental errors in ball handling as to be embarrassing. I say embarrassing, not because I think badly of the kids, but because by this time in their careers, basketball players with any degree of coaching and DISCIPLINE, should not be found to be jumping up, ball in hand, without the first clue as to where to pass the ball. I say, sit their asses down on the bench until they've figured it out. No defense? No PT. Jump passes, no PT. Poor decisions from the PG, no PT. In essence, real costs for shoddy, sloppy play. If you have to start the last five guys on the bench, including the ball boy and team manager, better to get the message across, than to let them continue to replicate such sloppy habits.
That is why this is 100% Crean's problem, and Crean's fault for not taking the necessary steps to fix it.

Yeah I agree with your theory, but in practice, Crean has to win this year. Maybe if he were RMK with a couple championships under his belt he could afford to do what you detailed, which I think is the right thing to do, but not with his job on the line.

[HoosierAloha 30,057]

Never the kids fault tho, never!

[ashmgee 193]

Thing is, I don't think crean is coaching for his job. That's scary when you think about it.

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

Never the kids fault tho, never!

To the extent that it's the kids who play the game, "yes", it can be their fault. But who's job is it to recruit the various pieces of a puzzle, pieces that aren't just talented, but pieces that can blend together on the court and in the dorm rooms? Who's job is it to instill discipline, not just in their game, but in their lives? Who's job is it to see that these players are committed to developing their game to the extent that it helps the entire team and program, not just their own trajectory to the NBA? Who's job is it to prepare game plans, and who's job is it to make changes in those plans when things go wrong, so his charges can learn to adapt to change and adversity? It may not seem fair, but it's what a coach must do and should be. It's why they make big money, and why there are so few of them worth the money they make. Yes, kids make errors on the court and in life, but it's the coach who takes the heat. It's just how it is. It's how it has to be.

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

Yeah I agree with your theory, but in practice, Crean has to win this year. Maybe if he were RMK with a couple championships under his belt he could afford to do what you detailed, which I think is the right thing to do, but not with his job on the line.

If I were a trustee or someone who had a say in the matter, I'd be more upset with Crean for not taking those steps, regardless of his past accomplishments or limited successes. Losing a game or two in order to get a point across is forgivable. Allowing your program to drift in to a sea of mediocrity isn't.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

If I were a trustee or someone who had a say in the matter, I'd be more upset with Crean for not taking those steps, regardless of his past accomplishments or limited successes. Losing a game or two in order to get a point across is forgivable. Allowing your program to drift in to a sea of mediocrity isn't.

I agree, but how many losses does it take the kids to learn? Enough to knock you out of the tournament and maybe miss the NIT for a second straight year? What does more damage to the image of the program? All valid points made by you, I just don't think it's as black and white in this current situation. Wish it were. That'd mean we hadn't had an awful season last year, and we'd still have a All-B1G center. Lol

[HoosierAloha 30,057]

To the extent that it's the kids who play the game, "yes", it can be their fault. But who's job is it to recruit the various pieces of a puzzle, pieces that aren't just talented, but pieces that can blend together on the court and in the dorm rooms? Who's job is it to instill discipline, not just in their game, but in their lives? Who's job is it to see that these players are committed to developing their game to the extent that it helps the entire team and program, not just their own trajectory to the NBA? Who's job is it to prepare game plans, and who's job is it to make changes in those plans when things go wrong, so his charges can learn to adapt to change and adversity? It may not seem fair, but it's what a coach must do and should be. It's why they make big money, and why there are so few of them worth the money they make. Yes, kids make errors on the court and in life, but it's the coach who takes the heat. It's just how it is. It's how it has to be.

 

Different schools of thought.  Some have grown so used to what "The General" did that no other way can be seen as the right way.  He did have a very effective way but it's not the only way.  I'm almost certain coach isn't high 5'ing them and telling them they're doing great on D.  In basketball, just like life, you have to go through some learning experiences to grow.  Thinking back through my life I know I'd be screwed if I were benched every time I made a mistake.

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

Different schools of thought.  Some have grown so used to what "The General" did that no other way can be seen as the right way.  He did have a very effective way but it's not the only way.  I'm almost certain coach isn't high 5'ing them and telling them they're doing great on D.  In basketball, just like life, you have to go through some learning experiences to grow.  Thinking back through my life I know I'd be screwed if I were benched every time I made a mistake.

Whether it was the "General's way" or some other coach's way is irrelevant. This team has no discipline whatsoever, and it shows up game after game after game in the way of turnovers, shoddy defense, and mental breakdowns, particularly, but not exclusively against upper echelon teams. When their threes are dropping, everything appears great. When they're not falling, every flaw is exposed, and one sees how far this team actually falls short of competing for a championship. And it isn't just about having a big man in the middle. That is the lie we keep buying in to. This team has fundamental flaws that coach Crean has been unable to correct. Fair or not, that is fast becoming the "Crean way".

[GloryDays 5,918]

Whether it was the "General's way" or some other coach's way is irrelevant. This team has no discipline whatsoever, and it shows up game after game after game in the way of turnovers, shoddy defense, and mental breakdowns, particularly, but not exclusively against upper echelon teams. When their threes are dropping, everything appears great. When they're not falling, every flaw is exposed, and one sees how far this team actually falls short of competing for a championship. And it isn't just about having a big man in the middle. That is the lie we keep buying in to. This team has fundamental flaws that coach Crean has been unable to correct. Fair or not, that is fast becoming the "Crean way".

 I think the obsession with dictating the pace leads to a lot of the turnovers and also some of the poor defense .When we build a lead we cant maintain it due to the foolish attempts at the Sports Center play.You can almost time when we have what should be a comfortable working margin and  the foolishness is going to start. That's the players actions but the coaches responsibility to remedy.

[coonhounds 8,861]

I think the obsession with dictating the pace leads to a lot of the turnovers and also some of the poor defense .When we build a lead we cant maintain it due to the foolish attempts at the Sports Center play.You can almost time when we have what should be a comfortable working margin and the foolishness is going to start. That's the players actions but the coaches responsibility to remedy.

that is all on the coaches how many times can we watch the same players make the same mistakes over and over again and not get pulled out but if u hit a few threes in a row bench time. I put it squarely on coaching

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,147]

I agree with all the points being made but surprisingly, to Crean's credit, he yanked Max after a poor shot and couple of fouls.  It was a smart and quick yanking.

[AZ Hoosier 6,781]

I agree with all the points being made but surprisingly, to Crean's credit, he yanked Max after a poor shot and couple of fouls.  It was a smart and quick yanking.

 

Speaking of yanking...

 

Does anyone have even the vaguest suggestion as to what Crean is doing with Holt? Once again he comes in and immediately grabs and offensive rebound, gets fouled, and is subsequently jerked from the game, never to be seen again.  I can understand giving Perea a few minutes to start getting back into game shape, but what is the thought process on Holt? To have an athletic 6-7 or 6-8 kid wasting away on the bench makes no sense to me.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,147]

yeah AZ, kind of shocking on that front.  I don't know the thinking there but he clearly is more comfortable with Hartman getting those minutes.  I would like to see Holt get more minutes too, he seems to play well when he is in.  My thinking at this point is Holt should get the minutes Stan is getting.  Stan was SOOOO bad yesterday.  (Holt has to improve his FT shooting though)  Sadly, Stan is a shell of himself. 

[GloryDays 5,918]

I agree with all the points being made but surprisingly, to Crean's credit, he yanked Max after a poor shot and couple of fouls.  It was a smart and quick yanking.

 Yeah I saw him get on Troy pretty hard yesterday too.Not saying Crean's not trying to get thru to them.

I think we have some pretty hardheaded kids on this team.