Stan and Troy

[AZ Hoosier 7,199]

Wait, so unless you're going to be a star you should stay all 4 years in college? Yeah, doesn't work that way anymore. Based on that logic unless you plan on being the number 1 overall pick then don't even consider coming out early. And you have no idea what financial situation these guys are coming from, saying "money isn't everything" doesn't apply to everyone equally

 

Agree. His whole logic is flawed. The days of not playing as a freshman and then needing to qualify for a "hardship" exemption to leave school and enter the NBA draft are long gone. Today's kids want to get to the NBA as soon as then can, even if it means not being the star right away.

 

As a guy looking at retirement and wondering if I managed to save enough money to last the rest of my life, I can assure you, that while money may not be the primary focus/goal for all of these guys, an awful lot can be said about the long term security that a couple million provides.

[pumpfake 3,940]

Don't forget that CZ SHOULD still be on this team... Maybe NV also. Both players weren't physically (also maybe not refined enough) ready for the leap when they made it. I can't put it all on coach TC. He did the recruiting, players just didn't stay. You can throw LF in that mix also

 

It's the double-edged sword of recruiting top-10 players.  They come in ready to contribute, but since they're gone after one or two seasons, you have to recruit 4-year (QUALITY) players or land blue chippers EVERY year.  CTC's failure was in recruiting (and keeping) another quality big man or two and not signing another star.

[Hoosier DaDa 2,462]

Stan shouldn't see the court at all. If a player makes you cringe evey time he is on the court because you know he is a turnover waiting to happen. He shouldn't play. He is our next transfer.

[AZ Hoosier 7,199]

Don't forget that CZ SHOULD still be on this team... Maybe NV also. Both players weren't physically (also maybe not refined enough) ready for the leap when they made it. I can't put it all on coach TC. He did the recruiting, players just didn't stay. You can throw LF in that mix also

 

True, Crean did recruit guys like Hollowell, Abel and Fischer (and others who have left), but you have to ask yourself "WHY did they leave?" - and the stories about Troy and Luke are true, that falls squarely on Crean. Hollowell was a transfer waiting to happen. His attitude and work ethic was seriously lacking, and he had spent enough time suspended for weed, etc.

 

My point is simply this: you cannot say "Crean recruited replacements, but they just didn’t stay". That is disingenuous at best.

[HoosiersLoveBanners 797]

Agree. His whole logic is flawed. The days of not playing as a freshman and then needing to qualify for a "hardship" exemption to leave school and enter the NBA draft are long gone. Today's kids want to get to the NBA as soon as then can, even if it means not being the star right away.

As a guy looking at retirement and wondering if I managed to save enough money to last the rest of my life, I can assure you, that while money may not be the primary focus/goal for all of these guys, an awful lot can be said about the long term security that a couple million provides.

I get your point and I won't derail this thread even further other than saying that most of the kids that leave without degrees, play for 5 years in the NBA on average, spend all the money on depreciating assets with payment advances and end up with nothing after bball. I could list a lot more of those examples than you could list success stories of kids leaving early. That's all

[IUBB666 201]

My last straw with Stan came last week when I saw him talking about girls sending nudes on twitter. Does he not understand people are watching him? Does he just not care that thousands of Hoosiers follow him on twitter? IMO Troy and Stan are selfish individuals period. And if that Luke Fischer story is true... That's sad to lock your own teammate out of his room to smoke weed. As long as we have Troy and Stan I think we have a chemistry problem because they're out for themselves.

[HoosiersLoveBanners 797]

True, Crean did recruit guys like Hollowell, Abel and Fischer (and others who have left), but you have to ask yourself "WHY did they leave?" - and the stories about Troy and Luke are true, that falls squarely on Crean. Hollowell was a transfer waiting to happen. His attitude and work ethic was seriously lacking, and he had spent enough time suspended for weed, etc.

My point is simply this: you cannot say "Crean recruited replacements, but they just didn’t stay". That is disingenuous at best.

I absolutely get what you're saying but it's not easy to get top tier commits when you have a CZ or a NV because all the new guys are worried about where they can play as a frosh and didn't see minutes here.

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

Remember when John Daly was getting a lot of flack for his drinking? He succumbed to the pressure and quit. His golf game fell apart.

Maybe we should encourage these two to show up to games high?

Not sure if you are serious but it really could be a good point. I have seen studies about learning habits that basically conclude that the specific environment you learn in is directly correlated to what you learn. If you listen to music while you study then you will test better on that subject if music is on, chew gum while you learn same thing.. Obviously the study didn't include being high but it isn't a far stretch. If they practiced high and improved skills then that would show up in a game that they played high.

[AZ Hoosier 7,199]

I get your point and I won't derail this thread even further other than saying that most of the kids that leave without degrees, play for 5 years in the NBA on average, spend all the money on depreciating assets with payment advances and end up with nothing after bball. I could list a lot more of those examples than you could list success stories of kids leaving early. That's all

 

Fair enough. But that doesn’t negate the "leaving early" argument for all.

[HoosierCoop 3,927]

I just stated this in the post game thread.

 

I believe Stan is causing a bleeding and we probably won't see him after Christmas.  I don't think this kid gets it.

-bad press

-rumors on grades and class attendance

-play and attitude on the court

-bad chemistry (did anyone else see him push another team member during a timeout last night?  It was after his two turnovers in a row.)

 

This is all a recipe for disaster.

 

I think Troy is at a crossroad.  He needs to choose his next path very wisely.

 

Bottom line IMO is Stan is gone.  Troy needs to cut the ties and focus on the things that can make him successful.  He has the tools to do it.  He just needs the negative whisper in his ear to go away.

[Rookie33 932]

I say good riddance to both. Not worthy of wearing the stripes...

[AZ Hoosier 7,199]

I absolutely get what you're saying but it's not easy to get top tier commits when you have a CZ or a NV because all the new guys are worried about where they can play as a frosh and didn't see minutes here.

 

The point is that the really talented kids aren’t going to stay 4 years. They know that the talented kids in front of them also won’t stay 4 years, freeing up playing time. Crean telegraphs that situation by over-signing year after year after year. Saying that it always "works out" is indication that he has a plan. Why can’t that plan include getting some quality bigs?

[AZ Hoosier 7,199]

Remember when John Daly was getting a lot of flack for his drinking?  He succumbed to the pressure and quit.  His golf game fell apart.

 

Maybe we should encourage these two to show up to games high?

 

Weed causes lack of focus ... clearly we are seeing some focus issues with these guys. You do the math.

[HoosierCoop 3,927]

I say good riddance to both. Not worthy of wearing the stripes...

I hear what you are saying but I truly think Troy is salvageable.  He needs to get away from Stan and I don't think that is possible as long as he is still on this team unfortunately.

[hoosierinIll 335]

The point is that the really talented kids aren’t going to stay 4 years. They know that the talented kids in front of them also won’t stay 4 years, freeing up playing time. Crean telegraphs that situation by over-signing year after year after year. Saying that it always "works out" is indication that he has a plan. Why can’t that plan include getting some quality bigs?

Whenever Crean was hired here a friend of mine who was recruited by Crean when he was at Marquette told me, "IU is going to turn into Marquette. Good guards with a bunch of athletic wings." And he was right.

I guess the thing that has bothered more over the last 7 than anything else, is Crean still acts like he's at Marquette. We need bigs in the B1G. But Crean's system isn't attractive to bigs. Plenty of big recruits got to watch CZ and NV play in this system and they haven't been sold.

And stop the stupid oversign. We're signing multiple spring players, anyways. Our classes are terribly out of balance, and now with the DD injury we will potentially have 6 sophomores on scholly next year.

[CampHoosier 3,697]

Troy was throwing up odd hook shots in the lane. Stan's passing made me yearn for Brett Finklemeier. Sloppy, lazy, and completely against the game plan. They were not in rhythm with our team and it doesn't seem they are off the court either. 

[JSHoosier 20,259]

I loved the Stan signing at first, but he should've been gone already.

[CampHoosier 3,697]

Stan may be on his way ..if not now at the end of the season

 

Honestly I thought the fake ID thing would really be a wake up call to Stan. But clearly it wasn't. He is playing less as a Sophomore than as a Freshman which tells the story on the court. Addition by subtraction. When you squirm whenever a player checks in, that's a bad sign. 

[Josh 12,645]

Weed causes lack of focus ... clearly we are seeing some focus issues with these guys. You do the math.

 

It's easy math.  They play better when high.

 

Back at IU (mid 90's) our intramural flag football team played better stoned.  We'd show up blazed and run the score up until halftime when we started to come down.  Maybe Stan and Troy need the same?  

 

Not that I'm totally serious about it, but Str8Hoosiers is right.  It's not a focus issue for everybody.  Some people need it.

[ccgeneral 38,084]

I'll be glad when the both of them no longer wear an Indiana jersey.