Do Not Fire Mike Woodson

[Scotty R 2,215]

8 minutes ago, Shooter said:

Again with the guys who were young coaches in their 30s. Do you acknowledge that if Woodson turns it around this year, he is not going to give IU 5 NCAA titles over the next 40 years like Coach K gave Duke? The situations are not comparable.

What do you mean "most wanted Archie gone after 2nd season?". Archie was a young coach, I supported giving him time. Four years was appropriate. He stunk that fourth year and then was rightfully fired.

Some people wanted Archie gone after his first game

[Scotty R 2,215]

3 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

No one hires a coach thinking they're getting 40 years and 5 national titles. Not at all how the hiring process works. But I'd sure as hell take 3-4 more seasons of Woodson getting to the 2nd weekend of the tournament and winning at a high level so long as he continues to have an offseason like the one prior and then calling it quits on his own terms leaving the program better than he found it. Sure as hell beats the alternative of hiring Dusty May and then listening to this board call for his head because he didn't win a national title by year 3. 

Aren't you getting tired of arguing the same point over and over again. You aren't going to change their minds because they already have their minds made up.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,547]

48 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

No one hires a coach thinking they're getting 40 years and 5 national titles. Not at all how the hiring process works. But I'd sure as hell take 3-4 more seasons of Woodson getting to the 2nd weekend of the tournament and winning at a high level so long as he continues to have an offseason like the one prior and then calling it quits on his own terms leaving the program better than he found it. Sure as hell beats the alternative of hiring Dusty May and then listening to this board call for his head because he didn't win a national title by year 3. 

I agree with the first part assuming Woody gets the results of course.  
 

As far as people calling for Dusty Mays firing, that would only happen with missed NCAAs in my opinion.
 

 Woody statistically underperformed expectations 3 straight years. With the third year being a missed NCAA. If his first year was a miss (which it was So close to being BTW) and then back to back NCAAs while outperforming expectations everything is changed.  

[AH1971 1,518]

10 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Woody statistically underperformed expectations 3 straight years. With the third year being a missed NCAA. If his first year was a miss (which it was So close to being BTW) and then back to back NCAAs while outperforming expectations everything is changed.  

Well we definitely have a differing opinion on this.

Making the tournament was the singular expectation I had for Woodson's first year, we hadn't been since 2016. Beating Purdue for the first time in 9 tries was also refreshing.

Year 2 I had higher preseason expectations although those were tempered when two starters went down for the majority of the conference season. Comfortably making the tournament as a 4 seed, sweeping Purdue, and finishing in the top third of the B10 was fine by me, but the blowout loss to Miami is the only thing people are going to remember.

Last year was a train wreck and unacceptable. Can't happen again. 

So no I don't think he's underachieved 3 consecutive years. But to each their own. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,547]

42 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Well we definitely have a differing opinion on this.

Making the tournament was the singular expectation I had for Woodson's first year, we hadn't been since 2016. Beating Purdue for the first time in 9 tries was also refreshing.

Year 2 I had higher preseason expectations although those were tempered when two starters went down for the majority of the conference season. Comfortably making the tournament as a 4 seed, sweeping Purdue, and finishing in the top third of the B10 was fine by me, but the blowout loss to Miami is the only thing people are going to remember.

Last year was a train wreck and unacceptable. Can't happen again. 

So no I don't think he's underachieved 3 consecutive years. But to each their own. 

“Underachieved statistical expectations” 3 straight years.  All the computer models. 
 

I was mostly ok with the first 2 years personally. Year 3 was an utter trainwreck but glimpses of that were everpresent throughout the first 2 years despite TJD being a monster and carrying us along.  

[J34 1,490]

5 hours ago, AH1971 said:

If Mike Woodson didn't deserve a 4th year, none of the current or future HoF coaches I listed prior did either.

I rest my case. 

That is an apples and oranges comparison. These aforementioned coaches didn't have the luxury of NIL and Portal. Like I said previously, after year 2 or 3, you pretty much know the trajectory of your program. Here's hoping year 4 is a success. 

[Chris007 44,382]

3 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Jay Wright was worse in year 3 than year 1, as was Mike Krzyzewski. I don't believe either would have gotten the leniency here given this boards standard. Hell Archie was light years improved in year 3 from year 1 and most wanted him gone after his 2nd season. 

I don't remember did they have a good NIL package back then? Since I don't think they had NIL back then, the comparison isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. 

[AH1971 1,518]

1 hour ago, J34 said:

That is an apples and oranges comparison. These aforementioned coaches didn't have the luxury of NIL and Portal. Like I said previously, after year 2 or 3, you pretty much know the trajectory of your program. Here's hoping year 4 is a success. 

That is certainly an opinion. 

[AH1971 1,518]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

I don't remember did they have a good NIL package back then? Since I don't think they had NIL back then, the comparison isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. 

Then why are coaches still given 4-5 year contracts in the NIL era instead of 1-2 year contracts? Because building something doesn't always happen overnight, even in the current climate. You're telling me Dusty May is only going to get two years at Michigan? Because of NIL? Stupid to suggest otherwise. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,654]

On 8/15/2024 at 9:16 PM, AH1971 said:

The current best coach in college basketball, Dan Hurley, would have been fired based on this boards criteria for retention well before winning his first title. Through 4 years at UConn, Hurley had:

-two missed tournaments

-zero tournament wins

-both tournament losses to lower seeded teams

-highest conference finish of 3rd place

Jay Wright wouldn’t have made it here. Nor Scott Drew. Or Tony Bennet. Coach K would have been fired long before he ever saw national success. 
 

You need more or do you get my gist?

Of the post-Knight IU coaches, which guy would you say is Jay Wright, which is Coach K, and which is Dan Hurley?

[AH1971 1,518]

41 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Of the post-Knight IU coaches, which guy would you say is Jay Wright, which is Coach K, and which is Dan Hurley?

This has gone over your head…again. None of those coaches would have become relevant had they only been given 2-3 seasons. Making my point yet again.

[go iu bb 6,273]

25 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

This has gone over your head…again. None of those coaches would have become relevant had they only been given 2-3 seasons. Making my point yet again.

Davis - 6 years

Sampson - <2 year

Crean - 9 years (including 3 terrible years at the beginning)

Miller - 4 years

Only 1 was in the 2-3 year (or less) range and he got himself fired. Ironically, he was the best coach of the bunch. So the narrative that IU has this great turnover in coaches is just false. 

Yet somehow, none of those 3 turned into the next Coach K, Jay Wright, or Dan Hurley. Odd. In fact, they all flamed out and did poorly after IU except for Sampson. 

Good thing we have the greatest coach ever now.

[Scotty R 2,215]

IU has had 6 coaches in 24 years since RMK left

[AH1971 1,518]

27 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

Davis - 6 years

Sampson - <2 year

Crean - 9 years (including 3 terrible years at the beginning)

Miller - 4 years

Only 1 was in the 2-3 year (or less) range and he got himself fired. Ironically, he was the best coach of the bunch. So the narrative that IU has this great turnover in coaches is just false. 

Yet somehow, none of those 3 turned into the next Coach K, Jay Wright, or Dan Hurley. Odd. In fact, they all flamed out and did poorly after IU except for Sampson. 

Good thing we have the greatest coach ever now.

We’re on our 5th coach since the turn of the century….

Name another program in the country who has consistently won at a respectable level with a comparable turnover rate as Indiana in said time frame? You can’t because they don’t exist. IU has a terrible turnover rate when it comes to coaching retention. Don’t kid yourself.

[TheWatShot 14,176]

13 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

We’re on our 5th coach since the turn of the century….

Name another program in the country who has consistently won at a respectable level with the same coaching turnover rate as Indiana in said time frame? You can’t because they don’t exist. IU has a terrible turnover rate when it comes to coaching retention. Don’t kid yourself.

If you're winning at a respectable level, you don't need to change coaches. Right? 

 

We have a bad retention rate because we've hired bad coaches. It's that simple. 

[AH1971 1,518]

7 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

If you're winning at a respectable level, you don't need to change coaches. Right? 

 

We have a bad retention rate because we've hired bad coaches. It's that simple. 

Keep turnin’ and burning’!!! That’ll surely fix things lol.

[go iu bb 6,273]

19 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

We’re on our 5th coach since the turn of the century….

Name another program in the country who has consistently won at a respectable level with a comparable turnover rate as Indiana in said time frame? You can’t because they don’t exist. IU has a terrible turnover rate when it comes to coaching retention. Don’t kid yourself.

But they're not being fired in 2-3 years for not winning enough as you seem to be claiming. They're given time and still fail to consistently win and are let go. The anomaly (Sampson) really drives down the average number of years. He wasn't fired for not winning, he was fired despite winning. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,654]

19 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

We’re on our 5th coach since the turn of the century….

Name another program in the country who has consistently won at a respectable level with a comparable turnover rate as Indiana in said time frame? You can’t because they don’t exist. IU has a terrible turnover rate when it comes to coaching retention. Don’t kid yourself.

Why is it so hard for you to grasp that we have a high turnover rate because we’re not winning consistently, not vice versa? What about Crean’s 15-57 record in the SEC makes you think we let a good one go too soon? What about Archie’s 21-42 record makes you think IU lost a good one?
 

IU’s problem is that it makes joke hires like Mike Woodson and then keeps them for too long because “you gotta give em time to get it going!” 

[AH1971 1,518]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Why is it so hard for you to grasp that we have a high turnover rate because we’re not winning consistently, not vice versa? What about Crean’s 15-57 record in the SEC makes you think we let a good one go too soon? What about Archie’s 21-42 record makes you think IU lost a good one?
 

IU’s problem is that it makes joke hires like Mike Woodson and then keeps them for too long because “you gotta give em time to get it going!” 

You ever think the reason why IU is getting the Archie Miller’s and Mike Woodson’s of the world is because the coaching retention sucks?? I’d love to hear who you think IU is going to get once Woodson is gone? Especially someone who is going to win overnight since you know, you can tell a coaches future trajectory all within a year or two…BeCAuSE NiL.

[Home Jersey 8,140]

12 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Keep turnin’ and burning’!!! That’ll surely fix things lol.

Weather has been pretty nice lately… Maybe you’d enjoy a leisurely stroll around the neighborhood occasionally? Nobody on this board is solving the state of IUBB. Nobody here has hiring/firing authority. Genuinely… what exactly do you think you’re accomplishing by keeping this utterly tired offseason debate alive with such vigor? Until the season starts at least, most people pretty much have their minds made up… not sure why you care so much about other people’s opinions, which ultimately make no difference in the real world. Lot of energy and emotion you seem to be putting into this. Hope you find it worthwhile.