Do Not Fire Mike Woodson

[IUHoosierJoe 1,188]

33 minutes ago, bird4par said:

Did Archie all the sudden forget how to coach?  WTF is going on with him?

Archie never really impressed me, even at Dayton.  Dayton has always been a very good, well-supported program at their level.  Archie certainly had a good record there, but he still lost a lot of games he shouldn’t have lost, and had quite a few close, lucky wins over inferior competition.  That Elite 8 team caught fire at the right time.  He was about to be run out of town in the middle of that season (started 1-5 in conference, I believe).

[str8baller 5,413]

On 8/13/2024 at 8:28 PM, AH1971 said:

 

I can give you countless examples of either HoF or future HoF coaches who had similar or lesser resumes after 3-4 seasons than some of those listed above.

I'd be interested in that list.  Surely the few you can find would be the exception to the rule.  You don't find a lot of success chasing exceptions against the rule.  

 

I honestly doubt there are any championship coaches in the modern era with a worse record than Creans first 3-4 seasons. There can't be that many worse than Archie's either.  So that leaves Davis. A guy who quite obviously had his success with the previous coach's team and was on a downward trajectory--a trajectory IU has never really recovered from,  not that Davis is entirely to blame for the last decade.  

 

Given hindsight is 20/20 and we now know all 3 of those guys are failures as high major coaches, I literally can't fathom the argument for keeping any of them longer.  (With that said,  I'm fine giving Woody this season given his NIL success).

I'm definitely curious about your list.  Go...

[AH1971 1,518]

2 hours ago, str8baller said:

I'd be interested in that list.  Surely the few you can find would be the exception to the rule.  You don't find a lot of success chasing exceptions against the rule.  

 

I honestly doubt there are any championship coaches in the modern era with a worse record than Creans first 3-4 seasons. There can't be that many worse than Archie's either.  So that leaves Davis. A guy who quite obviously had his success with the previous coach's team and was on a downward trajectory--a trajectory IU has never really recovered from,  not that Davis is entirely to blame for the last decade.  

 

Given hindsight is 20/20 and we now know all 3 of those guys are failures as high major coaches, I literally can't fathom the argument for keeping any of them longer.  (With that said,  I'm fine giving Woody this season given his NIL success).

I'm definitely curious about your list.  Go...

The current best coach in college basketball, Dan Hurley, would have been fired based on this boards criteria for retention well before winning his first title. Through 4 years at UConn, Hurley had:

-two missed tournaments

-zero tournament wins

-both tournament losses to lower seeded teams

-highest conference finish of 3rd place

Jay Wright wouldn’t have made it here. Nor Scott Drew. Or Tony Bennet. Coach K would have been fired long before he ever saw national success. 
 

You need more or do you get my gist?

[IUFAN1976 3,375]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

The current best coach in college basketball, Dan Hurley, would have been fired based on this boards criteria for retention well before winning his first title. Through 4 years at UConn, Hurley had:

-two missed tournaments

-zero tournament wins

-both tournament losses to lower seeded teams

-highest conference finish of 3rd place

Jay Wright wouldn’t have made it here. Nor Scott Drew. Or Tony Bennet. Coach K would have been fired long before he ever saw national success. 
 

You need more or do you get my gist?

What is the data of Coach K, Scott Drew, Jay Wright, and Tony Bennet as compared to Dan Hurley?   If you are going to throw them out compared to Dan Hurley, the data should be comparable.  As far as what we all seen, Dan Hurley was an anomaly based on your data! It still looks like you just threw big names out there, do you get my gist?

[AH1971 1,518]

Just now, IUFAN1976 said:

What is the data of Coach K, Scott Drew, Jay Wright, and Tony Bennet as compared to Dan Hurley?   If you are going to throw them out compared to Dan Hurley, the data should be comparable.  As far as what we all seen, Dan Hurley was an anomaly based on your data! It still looks like you just threw big names out there, do you get my gist?

-Jay Wright missed the tournament his first 3 years

-So did Mike Krzyzewski

-Scott Drew didn’t win his first tournament game until year 7

-Tony Bennett missed the tournament 3 out of his first 4 years and didn’t win his first tournament game until year 5

What else you need?

 

[Uspshoosier 46,148]

4 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

-Jay Wright missed the tournament his first 3 years

-So did Mike Krzyzewski

-Scott Drew didn’t win his first tournament game until year 7

-Tony Bennett missed the tournament 3 out of his first 4 years and didn’t win his first tournament game until year 5

What else you need?

 

Jay Wright 8 years as  college assistant before he was head coach at Hofstra (Hall of Fame coach)

 

Coach K  1 year  as an assistant before he was head coach of Army (Hall of Fame coach)

Scott Drew 9 years as an assistant before he was head coach at Valpo (National title winning coach)

Tony Bennett around 7 years as an assistant coach before he was head coach at Washington St (National title winning coach)

Woody  0 years as an college assistant coach before he was head coach at Indiana 

[AH1971 1,518]

6 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Jay Wright 8 years as  college assistant before he was head coach at Hofstra (Hall of Fame coach)

 

Coach K  1 year  as an assistant before he was head coach of Army (Hall of Fame coach)

Scott Drew 9 years as an assistant before he was head coach at Valpo (National title winning coach)

Tony Bennett around 7 years as an assistant coach before he was head coach at Washington St (National title winning coach)

Woody  0 years as an college assistant coach before he was head coach at Indiana 

So being an assistant coach at Hofstra, Valpo, and freaking Army trumps being a head coach for a decade at the highest level of basketball!?! lol. 
 

Don’t hurt yourself too bad doing those mental gymnastics. Good lord.

[Uspshoosier 46,148]

11 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

So being an assistant coach at Hofstra, Valpo, and freaking Army trumps being a head coach for a decade at the highest level of basketball!?! lol. 
 

Don’t hurt yourself too bad doing those mental gymnastics. Good lord.

Yeah for me it does.  I don’t really give a crap about the NBA.  I would rather have a college basketball grinder and lifer leading the program I’m most invested in 

[JSHoosier 20,332]

Hurley had Rhode Island trending upward and won the conference in his last season there. At UCONN, even before his titles, they were trending up with tournament game wins in year 3 & 4. Not a exactly good comparison. If a coach had IU trending like that everyone on this board would be fine with more time.

[AH1971 1,518]

7 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

Hurley had Rhode Island trending upward and won the conference in his last season there. At UCONN, even before his titles, they were trending up with tournament game wins in year 3 & 4. Not an exactly good comparison. If a coach had IU trending like that everyone on this board would be fine with more time.

The bolded statement is just a flat out lie. Year 3 UConn lost in round 1 as a 7 seed to 10th seeded Maryland and in year 4 UConn lost as a 5 seed to 12th seeded New Mexico State. He had zero tournament wins at UConn prior to winning back to back national titles, in fact he came into year 5 with a very warm seat.

[LamarCheeks 19,256]

10 hours ago, AH1971 said:

So being an assistant coach at Hofstra, Valpo, and freaking Army trumps being a head coach for a decade at the highest level of basketball!?! lol. 
 

Don’t hurt yourself too bad doing those mental gymnastics. Good lord.

What does coaching at "the highest level of basketball" have to do with it? 

I would think everybody on this board loves Randy Wittman. He coached for 9-plus seasons in the NBA -- had two winning seasons, finished with a .406 winning percentage. Would anybody want him at IU? I doubt it. 

Sidney Lowe coached 307 games in the NBA -- won 79 of them (.257 winning pct.). He later got hired by his alma mater -- N.C. State, where he coached five seasons and had a .524 winning pct. Never made the NCAAs and never finished better than ninth in the ACC. 

Is there anybody in the world who thinks Wittman or Lowe -- who coached at "the highest level of basketball" -- are better than Jay Wright or Scott Drew, who've only coached college ball? 

[JSHoosier 20,332]

1 hour ago, AH1971 said:

The bolded statement is just a flat out lie. Year 3 UConn lost in round 1 as a 7 seed to 10th seeded Maryland and in year 4 UConn lost as a 5 seed to 12th seeded New Mexico State. He had zero tournament wins at UConn prior to winning back to back national titles, in fact he came into year 5 with a very warm seat.

I misread the finish, my mistake and stand corrected on that point. Still stands that UCONN was trending up, aside from 20-21 their overall record was better every year. No one would've called for his job here.

[AH1971 1,518]

40 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

What does coaching at "the highest level of basketball" have to do with it? 

I would think everybody on this board loves Randy Wittman. He coached for 9-plus seasons in the NBA -- had two winning seasons, finished with a .406 winning percentage. Would anybody want him at IU? I doubt it. 

Sidney Lowe coached 307 games in the NBA -- won 79 of them (.257 winning pct.). He later got hired by his alma mater -- N.C. State, where he coached five seasons and had a .524 winning pct. Never made the NCAAs and never finished better than ninth in the ACC. 

Is there anybody in the world who thinks Wittman or Lowe -- who coached at "the highest level of basketball" -- are better than Jay Wright or Scott Drew, who've only coached college ball? 

That's not at all the comparison USPS was making. He was saying that Wright, Drew, Bennett, etc deserved more time despite have similar or worse resumes through 3 years over Woodson because they had more experience in the college game. Which is an absolute nonsense argument. 

[AH1971 1,518]

Just now, JSHoosier said:

I misread the finish, my mistake and stand corrected on that point. Still stands that UCONN was trending up, aside from 20-21 their overall record was better every year. No one would've called for his job here.

UConn fans were literally calling for his job. He was in put up or shut up mode going into year 5. 

[Home Jersey 8,149]

1 hour ago, AH1971 said:

UConn fans were literally calling for his job. He was in put up or shut up mode going into year 5. 

They really were not "literally calling for his job" at anywhere near the scale of IU fans right now for Woody. 

https://the-boneyard.com/threads/is-hurley-on-the-hot-seat.178039/

You can literally see on one of their most popular forums, someone asked if he was on the hot seat via a poll after a bad loss, and was basically shouted down by their entire board. UConn and IU are not remotely comparable programs in any sense currently ... they actually have a competent administration. Sad to say. But largely true.

[AH1971 1,518]

3 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

They really were not "literally calling for his job" at anywhere near the scale of IU fans right now for Woody. 

https://the-boneyard.com/threads/is-hurley-on-the-hot-seat.178039/

You can literally see on one of their most popular forums, someone asked if he was on the hot seat via a poll after a bad loss, and was basically shouted down by their entire board. UConn and IU are not remotely comparable programs in any sense currently ... they actually have a competent administration. Sad to say. But largely true.

Funny that you posted a thread created in February of 2022 BEFORE he lost in the first round (again) to a lower seed (again) in the tournament a month later. The expectation for Hurley entering year 5 was that he better show something in the tournament. Luckily for him he passed with flying colors and hasn't looked back since. 

[Home Jersey 8,149]

4 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Funny that you posted a thread created in February of 2022 BEFORE he lost in the first round (again) to a lower seed (again) in the tournament a month later. The expectation for Hurley entering year 5 was that he better show something in the tournament. Luckily for him he passed with flying colors and hasn't looked back since. 

So we'll see if Woody can pass basically the same test in similar fashion this year

[Uspshoosier 46,148]

2 hours ago, AH1971 said:

That's not at all the comparison USPS was making. He was saying that Wright, Drew, Bennett, etc deserved more time despite have similar or worse resumes through 3 years over Woodson because they had more experience in the college game. Which is an absolute nonsense argument. 

Interesting. That was my argument? I just posted numbers of where those coaches coached before they were head coaches other people can make arguments for weather they deserve more or less time then another coach.   Just pointed out  where those mostly Hall of Fame coaches grinded before they became head coaches.  Woody could actually have a winning record in the NBA and I would have wanted a college lifer to coach IU instead of him.     Just my opinion though 

[go iu bb 6,276]

Well, I'm convinced now. Woodson is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He should definitely get a huge raise and an extension before the season since he's definitely on the level of Knight, McCracken, K, Hurley, and multiple other NC winning coaches. 

This year is when he'll show his greatness and will be the 1st of multiple NC because this is such a great team with a great coach. It's really odd, though, that his biggest supporters put the floor at only 22 wins while telling us how great this team and the coach are. Regardless, they've convinced me of his greatness so anything less than 25 regular season wins and a FF appearance would be a disappointing season. 

[AH1971 1,518]

10 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

Well, I'm convinced now. Woodson is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He should definitely get a huge raise and an extension before the season since he's definitely on the level of Knight, McCracken, K, Hurley, and multiple other NC winning coaches. 

This year is when he'll show his greatness and will be the 1st of multiple NC because this is such a great team with a great coach. It's really odd, though, that his biggest supporters put the floor at only 22 wins while telling us how great this team and the coach are. Regardless, they've convinced me of his greatness so anything less than 25 regular season wins and a FF appearance would be a disappointing season. 

Someone clearly doesn't know what floor means ^^^^