Do Not Fire Mike Woodson

[Banksyrules 4,463]

4 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

All,

The mods are well aware of the content of this and the 'Fire' thread. In my (non-mod) opinion, the posts in both threads at times may be redundant at this point; everyone has had their say many times. Occasionally we have taken a post from one thread and relocated it to the other thread. However...

• It is very much the slow season, especially for basketball.
• The posts in both threads have generally been within board rules.
• So the threads march on! 

As a gentle reminder:

• The mods generally pay attention to the board (except Stromboli, who is likely busy making a delicious sandwich). There is rarely a need to post requests for mods to notice a post.
• MOST IMPORTANTLY -- Anyone and everyone participating in these discussions is ultimately interested in the same thing: the unmitigated success of our beloved Indiana University. It's just that we all have different ways of expressing it and judging what will constitute that unmitigated success. That's what makes these discussions interesting - if we all agreed they'd be far less interesting.
• There should be no 'Hoosier-on-Hoosier' digital violence. A suggestion? If things are getting too spicy between any of y'all, take the time to type "Purdue sucks" into your post and start by agreeing with your sparring partner on that one.

The first ever Btownbanners meet up will be fun at least.  

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,799]

I can give you countless examples of either HoF or future HoF coaches who had similar or lesser resumes after 3-4 seasons than some of those listed above.

Woodson age was always going to be a factor. His timetable on results isn’t the same as a 40-50 year old coach.

I hope he kills it for the next 2-3 years and goes out on top. But if he doesn’t have it, the benefit of waiting to find out is greatly lessened.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[HoosierHoopster 6,711]

5 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

All,

The mods are well aware of the content of this and the 'Fire' thread. In my (non-mod) opinion, the posts in both threads at times may be redundant at this point; everyone has had their say many times. Occasionally we have taken a post from one thread and relocated it to the other thread. However...

• It is very much the slow season, especially for basketball.
• The posts in both threads have generally been within board rules.
• So the threads march on! 

As a gentle reminder:

• The mods generally pay attention to the board (except Stromboli, who is likely busy making a delicious sandwich). There is rarely a need to post requests for mods to notice a post.
• MOST IMPORTANTLY -- Anyone and everyone participating in these discussions is ultimately interested in the same thing: the unmitigated success of our beloved Indiana University. It's just that we all have different ways of expressing it and judging what will constitute that unmitigated success. That's what makes these discussions interesting - if we all agreed they'd be far less interesting.
• There should be no 'Hoosier-on-Hoosier' digital violence. A suggestion? If things are getting too spicy between any of y'all, take the time to type "Purdue sucks" into your post and start by agreeing with your sparring partner on that one.

Should he stay or should he go now

Should he stay or should he go now

if he goes there will be trouble

if he stays it will be double

so come on and let me know

should he stay or should he go

[Schreckbagger 620]

The University of Kentucky has hired 3 championship coaches in a row.   
I can't fathom the line of rationale that would lead one to think IU's method of hiring/ firing coaches is superior to UK's over the last 30-40 years.  Respectfully,  the notion is laughable.

Gotta agree.

Kensucky's last NC was in 2012. Prior to that, they won in 1998 & 1996. Btw....They've had 4 coaches in that span, not 3 in a row. (Billy Gillispie didn't). 2 of 3 NC winning coaches are in the Basketball HoF. They've had 7 coaches (7½ yrs avg) since 1972.

With the talent they recruit, and coaches they've had, it seems they've under achieved.

Regardless, IU ain't getting a coach with those qualifications next hire.

Sent from my SM-S906U using BtownBanners mobile app

[AH1971 1,415]

21 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Woodson age was always going to be a factor. His timetable on results isn’t the same as a 40-50 year old coach.

I hope he kills it for the next 2-3 years and goes out on top. But if he doesn’t have it, the benefit of waiting to find out is greatly lessened.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

Agree wholeheartedly, but 5-6 years to gauge a coach is entirely different than 3 years. I’d wager substantially his 4th season is better than any of his previous 3 seasons despite being written off by a large portion of  this board. He’s 66 not 96, plenty of time left to leave a big impact on the program even if he’s only here another 3-4 seasons.

[IUFAN1976 2,747]

38 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Agree wholeheartedly, but 5-6 years to gauge a coach is entirely different than 3 years. I’d wager substantially his 4th season is better than any of his previous 3 seasons despite being written off by a large portion of  this board. He’s 66 not 96, plenty of time left to leave a big impact on the program even if he’s only here another 3-4 seasons.

And that is saying the same thing from your point of view in a little different way!   He hasn’t coached well in the pros, he’s just been average at best.  His first 3 years was just average too at IU.  We all have the expectations as being better than his first 3 seasons, because it’s the best IU team money can buy.  Now he better be able to coach them or his seat will be he** hot!  How is that for posting something a little different or it probably could be the same, I’m sure there are some similarities in previous posts, just like yours was!

[bird4par 203]

23 hours ago, PartyintheVillas said:

Mike Davis, Tom Crean, and Archie Miller were all fired by Indiana for losing too much. Mike Davis and Tom Crean were fired by their next schools as well and Archie is well on his way (21-42 in two seasons.) They are not good coaches and did not grow into being good coaches. 

 

Did Archie all the sudden forget how to coach?  WTF is going on with him?

[IUHoosierJoe 1,041]

33 minutes ago, bird4par said:

Did Archie all the sudden forget how to coach?  WTF is going on with him?

Archie never really impressed me, even at Dayton.  Dayton has always been a very good, well-supported program at their level.  Archie certainly had a good record there, but he still lost a lot of games he shouldn’t have lost, and had quite a few close, lucky wins over inferior competition.  That Elite 8 team caught fire at the right time.  He was about to be run out of town in the middle of that season (started 1-5 in conference, I believe).

[str8baller 4,980]

On 8/13/2024 at 8:28 PM, AH1971 said:

 

I can give you countless examples of either HoF or future HoF coaches who had similar or lesser resumes after 3-4 seasons than some of those listed above.

I'd be interested in that list.  Surely the few you can find would be the exception to the rule.  You don't find a lot of success chasing exceptions against the rule.  

 

I honestly doubt there are any championship coaches in the modern era with a worse record than Creans first 3-4 seasons. There can't be that many worse than Archie's either.  So that leaves Davis. A guy who quite obviously had his success with the previous coach's team and was on a downward trajectory--a trajectory IU has never really recovered from,  not that Davis is entirely to blame for the last decade.  

 

Given hindsight is 20/20 and we now know all 3 of those guys are failures as high major coaches, I literally can't fathom the argument for keeping any of them longer.  (With that said,  I'm fine giving Woody this season given his NIL success).

I'm definitely curious about your list.  Go...

[AH1971 1,415]

2 hours ago, str8baller said:

I'd be interested in that list.  Surely the few you can find would be the exception to the rule.  You don't find a lot of success chasing exceptions against the rule.  

 

I honestly doubt there are any championship coaches in the modern era with a worse record than Creans first 3-4 seasons. There can't be that many worse than Archie's either.  So that leaves Davis. A guy who quite obviously had his success with the previous coach's team and was on a downward trajectory--a trajectory IU has never really recovered from,  not that Davis is entirely to blame for the last decade.  

 

Given hindsight is 20/20 and we now know all 3 of those guys are failures as high major coaches, I literally can't fathom the argument for keeping any of them longer.  (With that said,  I'm fine giving Woody this season given his NIL success).

I'm definitely curious about your list.  Go...

The current best coach in college basketball, Dan Hurley, would have been fired based on this boards criteria for retention well before winning his first title. Through 4 years at UConn, Hurley had:

-two missed tournaments

-zero tournament wins

-both tournament losses to lower seeded teams

-highest conference finish of 3rd place

Jay Wright wouldn’t have made it here. Nor Scott Drew. Or Tony Bennet. Coach K would have been fired long before he ever saw national success. 
 

You need more or do you get my gist?

[IUFAN1976 2,747]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

The current best coach in college basketball, Dan Hurley, would have been fired based on this boards criteria for retention well before winning his first title. Through 4 years at UConn, Hurley had:

-two missed tournaments

-zero tournament wins

-both tournament losses to lower seeded teams

-highest conference finish of 3rd place

Jay Wright wouldn’t have made it here. Nor Scott Drew. Or Tony Bennet. Coach K would have been fired long before he ever saw national success. 
 

You need more or do you get my gist?

What is the data of Coach K, Scott Drew, Jay Wright, and Tony Bennet as compared to Dan Hurley?   If you are going to throw them out compared to Dan Hurley, the data should be comparable.  As far as what we all seen, Dan Hurley was an anomaly based on your data! It still looks like you just threw big names out there, do you get my gist?

[AH1971 1,415]

Just now, IUFAN1976 said:

What is the data of Coach K, Scott Drew, Jay Wright, and Tony Bennet as compared to Dan Hurley?   If you are going to throw them out compared to Dan Hurley, the data should be comparable.  As far as what we all seen, Dan Hurley was an anomaly based on your data! It still looks like you just threw big names out there, do you get my gist?

-Jay Wright missed the tournament his first 3 years

-So did Mike Krzyzewski

-Scott Drew didn’t win his first tournament game until year 7

-Tony Bennett missed the tournament 3 out of his first 4 years and didn’t win his first tournament game until year 5

What else you need?

 

[Uspshoosier 44,905]

4 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

-Jay Wright missed the tournament his first 3 years

-So did Mike Krzyzewski

-Scott Drew didn’t win his first tournament game until year 7

-Tony Bennett missed the tournament 3 out of his first 4 years and didn’t win his first tournament game until year 5

What else you need?

 

Jay Wright 8 years as  college assistant before he was head coach at Hofstra (Hall of Fame coach)

 

Coach K  1 year  as an assistant before he was head coach of Army (Hall of Fame coach)

Scott Drew 9 years as an assistant before he was head coach at Valpo (National title winning coach)

Tony Bennett around 7 years as an assistant coach before he was head coach at Washington St (National title winning coach)

Woody  0 years as an college assistant coach before he was head coach at Indiana 

[AH1971 1,415]

6 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Jay Wright 8 years as  college assistant before he was head coach at Hofstra (Hall of Fame coach)

 

Coach K  1 year  as an assistant before he was head coach of Army (Hall of Fame coach)

Scott Drew 9 years as an assistant before he was head coach at Valpo (National title winning coach)

Tony Bennett around 7 years as an assistant coach before he was head coach at Washington St (National title winning coach)

Woody  0 years as an college assistant coach before he was head coach at Indiana 

So being an assistant coach at Hofstra, Valpo, and freaking Army trumps being a head coach for a decade at the highest level of basketball!?! lol. 
 

Don’t hurt yourself too bad doing those mental gymnastics. Good lord.

[Uspshoosier 44,905]

11 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

So being an assistant coach at Hofstra, Valpo, and freaking Army trumps being a head coach for a decade at the highest level of basketball!?! lol. 
 

Don’t hurt yourself too bad doing those mental gymnastics. Good lord.

Yeah for me it does.  I don’t really give a crap about the NBA.  I would rather have a college basketball grinder and lifer leading the program I’m most invested in 

[JSHoosier 19,743]

Hurley had Rhode Island trending upward and won the conference in his last season there. At UCONN, even before his titles, they were trending up with tournament game wins in year 3 & 4. Not a exactly good comparison. If a coach had IU trending like that everyone on this board would be fine with more time.

[AH1971 1,415]

7 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

Hurley had Rhode Island trending upward and won the conference in his last season there. At UCONN, even before his titles, they were trending up with tournament game wins in year 3 & 4. Not an exactly good comparison. If a coach had IU trending like that everyone on this board would be fine with more time.

The bolded statement is just a flat out lie. Year 3 UConn lost in round 1 as a 7 seed to 10th seeded Maryland and in year 4 UConn lost as a 5 seed to 12th seeded New Mexico State. He had zero tournament wins at UConn prior to winning back to back national titles, in fact he came into year 5 with a very warm seat.

[LamarCheeks 17,792]

10 hours ago, AH1971 said:

So being an assistant coach at Hofstra, Valpo, and freaking Army trumps being a head coach for a decade at the highest level of basketball!?! lol. 
 

Don’t hurt yourself too bad doing those mental gymnastics. Good lord.

What does coaching at "the highest level of basketball" have to do with it? 

I would think everybody on this board loves Randy Wittman. He coached for 9-plus seasons in the NBA -- had two winning seasons, finished with a .406 winning percentage. Would anybody want him at IU? I doubt it. 

Sidney Lowe coached 307 games in the NBA -- won 79 of them (.257 winning pct.). He later got hired by his alma mater -- N.C. State, where he coached five seasons and had a .524 winning pct. Never made the NCAAs and never finished better than ninth in the ACC. 

Is there anybody in the world who thinks Wittman or Lowe -- who coached at "the highest level of basketball" -- are better than Jay Wright or Scott Drew, who've only coached college ball? 

[JSHoosier 19,743]

1 hour ago, AH1971 said:

The bolded statement is just a flat out lie. Year 3 UConn lost in round 1 as a 7 seed to 10th seeded Maryland and in year 4 UConn lost as a 5 seed to 12th seeded New Mexico State. He had zero tournament wins at UConn prior to winning back to back national titles, in fact he came into year 5 with a very warm seat.

I misread the finish, my mistake and stand corrected on that point. Still stands that UCONN was trending up, aside from 20-21 their overall record was better every year. No one would've called for his job here.

[AH1971 1,415]

40 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

What does coaching at "the highest level of basketball" have to do with it? 

I would think everybody on this board loves Randy Wittman. He coached for 9-plus seasons in the NBA -- had two winning seasons, finished with a .406 winning percentage. Would anybody want him at IU? I doubt it. 

Sidney Lowe coached 307 games in the NBA -- won 79 of them (.257 winning pct.). He later got hired by his alma mater -- N.C. State, where he coached five seasons and had a .524 winning pct. Never made the NCAAs and never finished better than ninth in the ACC. 

Is there anybody in the world who thinks Wittman or Lowe -- who coached at "the highest level of basketball" -- are better than Jay Wright or Scott Drew, who've only coached college ball? 

That's not at all the comparison USPS was making. He was saying that Wright, Drew, Bennett, etc deserved more time despite have similar or worse resumes through 3 years over Woodson because they had more experience in the college game. Which is an absolute nonsense argument.