Liam decomitting

[ray 1,563]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

This is just so off, I can't think of a more tone deaf opinion. 

No we aren't the issue whatsoever.  You think we are bad? Go to an sec board during football season.  This is childs play and probably the reason we're in this **** storm to begin with.  It's also probably the reason the SEC is absolutely lapping the B1G outside of a few select programs across all sports. 

Pearl and May would both take the job, so that answers your questions  on who... 

Trilly verbatim said "it wasn't the fans" lololol I'm sorry I just cannot believe what I just read. Are you a BOT member too? 

I think it's unfair to tell someone they possess tone deaf opinions, and then use a single social media "heresay" post to state what the "whole truth" is. No one with a social media presence (not even Trilly) is being fact-checked before typing out and posting their opinions. I'm sure, as codesbane tried to say and you apparently missed, this is likely a culmination of many factors. 

With that said, though, I think JSHoosier made a point that needs highlighted...and an opinion I believe you share. The fans most certainly have been a steady positive for 20+ years. Even during the post-Sampson era dumpster fire and the horrific record of Crean's beginnings at Indiana, Assembly Hall was selling out. Most fans are, and have been, supportive of even the worst of Indiana's teams. Some fans are toxic, and I would never condone such things as booing a team on the court to get into a coach's head or to prove a point to the administration, but any program with a strong and loyal fanbase will have some toxicity.

Has anyone directly involved in the maintaining or firing of Woodson reported that either May or Pearl have said they would absolutely take the job? Have either of those potential candidates said publicly that if IU offers, then they will for certain accept the job? You say, as a matter of fact, they both would. Would they? Pearl has commented that he loves Indiana, but he's in a good place now with phenomenal pay and seemingly less expectations. He's also probably near his retirement. Would he want to start over from scratch with what seems like a limited time frame? Maybe. Maybe not. Would May leave what he's built for the pay raise and the promotion an Indiana HC job offers, or would he choose to stay in sunny Florida where his job is seemingly secure for a distant foreseeable future? I do think he would take the job, but I don't believe anyone knows that with certainty. I do agree the program is better off sending Woodson packing, and it would have been nice to at least see if either accepted. I would be FAR more hopeful with either at the helm. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,907]

6 minutes ago, ray said:

I think it's unfair to tell someone they possess tone deaf opinions, and then use a single social media "heresay" post to state what the "whole truth" is. No one with a social media presence (not even Trilly) is being fact-checked before typing out and posting their opinions. I'm sure, as codesbane tried to say and you apparently missed, this is likely a culmination of many factors. 

With that said, though, I think JSHoosier made a point that needs highlighted...and an opinion I believe you share. The fans most certainly have been a steady positive for 20+ years. Even during the post-Sampson era dumpster fire and the horrific record of Crean's beginnings at Indiana, Assembly Hall was selling out. Most fans are, and have been, supportive of even the worst of Indiana's teams. Some fans are toxic, and I would never condone such things as booing a team on the court to get into a coach's head or to prove a point to the administration, but any program with a strong and loyal fanbase will have some toxicity.

Has anyone directly involved in the maintaining or firing of Woodson reported that either May or Pearl have said they would absolutely take the job? Have either of those potential candidates said publicly that if IU offers, then they will for certain accept the job? You say, as a matter of fact, they both would. Would they? Pearl has commented that he loves Indiana, but he's in a good place now with phenomenal pay and seemingly less expectations. He's also probably near his retirement. Would he want to start over from scratch with what seems like a limited time frame? Maybe. Maybe not. Would May leave what he's built for the pay raise and the promotion an Indiana HC job offers, or would he choose to stay in sunny Florida where his job is seemingly secure for a distant foreseeable future? I do think he would take the job, but I don't believe anyone knows that with certainty. I do agree the program is better off sending Woodson packing, and it would have been nice to at least see if either accepted. I would be FAR more hopeful with either at the helm. 

Then call it unfair. I don't care. It's absolutely laughable to think the fans had anything to do with this. 

Would Dusty May take the job? Yes. 

 

[Muskie for three 307]

1 hour ago, Demo said:

If the stuff out there that Woody never communicated with the kid is accurate, I’m confident that also played a part. The kid talked non-stop about relationships during his recruitment. Zero percent chance it had anything to do with the fans. Zero. Was probably the most beloved recruit by the fan base since Langford and he ate it up.

Circle of top level recruits is small they all communicate . I'm sure that Liam not getting stroked  by Woody . Will get out and could come into play in the future with  a top guy. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,686]

4 minutes ago, Tropiiix said:

Ok slow down. #1+2 bolded is a gross over-reaction. We sucked, Woodson got hired, we made the tournament 2 times in a row. I'm assuming you mean not recruiting, Ware was the #2 ranked portal player last year!! Yes, the guard situation needed more done to shore it up, but I doubt nothing was attempted. 

#3 bolded is a fine point and I understand that is your opinion, but in my opinion firing Woodson would give an image of total instability and lower our brand even further in the mind of recruits and parents. He HAS to retire. I'd be thrilled if he retired after this season but I'm telling you. Firing him now will do more harm then good.

Yes, definitely referring to recruiting. He's done some good things in the portal, and for HS recruits he's done a lot by taking advantage of late decommits from other programs. It's great that he was able to do that, but it's not something to always count on. You cannot build a roster every year only in the portal and/or hoping to jump in on a late decommit. High school recruiting is a much longer game and we're seeing how his efforts, or lack there of, over the course of his tenure is playing out by having zero commits for the future both next season and don't appear to be in very good position with key recruits beyond that. So now we HAVE to hit a grand slam in the portal or cross our fingers another late decommit has interest in being the only freshman coming in? Is it really a gross over-reaction? This pattern over time is where (yes, my opinion) we get to the dereliction of duties that warrant a parting of ways. I much prefer he just retire....definitely agree there. But if he won't, the justification is there to part ways and the message not be that of instability but that of the administration protecting the program and not allowing it to be led in this way. But yes, first and foremost....push like hell for retirement.

[True Fan 38]

5 minutes ago, Muskie for three said:

Circle of top level recruits is small they all communicate . I'm sure that Liam not getting stroked  by Woody . Will get out and could come into play in the future with  a top guy. 

Yea if that is true, that hurts.  That feels like borderline negligence on Woody. 

[Tropiiix 7]

1 minute ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Yes, definitely referring to recruiting. He's done some good things in the portal, and for HS recruits he's done a lot by taking advantage of late decommits from other programs. It's great that he was able to do that, but it's not something to always count on. You cannot build a roster every year only in the portal and/or hoping to jump in on a late decommit. High school recruiting is a much longer game and we're seeing how his efforts, or lack there of, over the course of his tenure is playing out by having zero commits for the future both next season and don't appear to be in very good position with key recruits beyond that. So now we HAVE to hit a grand slam in the portal or cross our fingers another late decommit has interest in being the only freshman coming in? Is it really a gross over-reaction? This pattern over time is where (yes, my opinion) we get to the dereliction of duties that warrant a parting of ways. I much prefer he just retire....definitely agree there. But if he won't, the justification is there to part ways and the message not be that of instability but that of the administration protecting the program and not allowing it to be led in this way. But yes, first and foremost....push like hell for retirement.

Ok I agree. Push like hell for retirement after this season. If the answer is no, you say ok retire after next year. If the answer is still no then yeah you probably have to fire him assuming next year doesn't go well. but then the firing is at least more justified.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,907]

1 minute ago, Tropiiix said:

Ok I agree. Push like hell for retirement after this season. If the answer is no, you say ok retire after next year. If the answer is still no then yeah you probably have to fire him assuming next year doesn't go well. but then the firing is at least more justified.

WHAT BIG TIME PROGRAM OPERATES LIKE THIS!?!?!?!?!

[Tropiiix 7]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

WHAT BIG TIME PROGRAM OPERATES LIKE THIS!?!?!?!?!

What truly "big time" program is on their third coach in 5 years like we would be

[True Fan 38]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

WHAT BIG TIME PROGRAM OPERATES LIKE THIS!?!?!?!?!

Unfortunately we aren't Duke, UK, Kansas, etc.  They could operate like this.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,969]

Woodson "Indiana is the ****!"

Me: "Indiana is a **** show"

 

How to lose almost the entire fanbase in 1 season:

1.  Misevaluate talent on own roster who you have coached for 1-2 years.  (Banks, Gunn, X, maybe even Galloway to an extent)

2. Fail to land shooting and guards in the transfer portal when it was a CLEAR need for an UPGRADE.  I posted about it ad nauseum.  Thought we are going to get Antonio Reeves at the end.

3. Fail on the court early but barely winning easy games and getting blown out in games that matter because:

a) Players/coaches not on same page for defensive philosphy

b) Hockey subs.  Too much reliance on getting the bench minutes.  

c) Not being flexible within games to let guys play with foul trouble or switching defensive strategies to stop what was killing us.

d) Offensively-----Waiting WAY to long to put the ball in Galloway's hands as a playmaker.  Too much Cupps with the ball.  Also not allowing fast paced play, encouraging transition play, and shots early in the shot clock.

e) A master class of how to F up a talented enough roster to identify your best guys and give those guys the minutes.  TOOK WAY TOO LONG

3. Recruiting, Recruiting, Recruiting (DreamBig#)

a) Get tons of traction with so many top level guys-raise excitement and expectations

b) ignore the middle rated guys that werent good enough (fine)

c) Identify 3 main targets for the world to see. Then the Fland miss, started the swoon.  Then Queen.  Then the McNeely Decommit

4. Get "eliminated" from bubble talk in Jan/ Early February with much of the season is left.  Giving the fans 1-2 months of no hope after 2 months of bad play.

5. Fail to adequately convince the fans his vision and plan will be successful in pressers and post games.  Seemingly being generally clueless about WHY all this is happening.

 

That's how you lose a fanbase in 1 season.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,907]

Just now, Tropiiix said:

What truly "big time" program is on their third coach in 5 years like we would be

UCONN was on their 3rd coach in 8 years. 

But I am also not sure why that's relevant. No, you move on from Woodson now. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,907]

3 minutes ago, codesbane said:

Unfortunately we aren't Duke, UK, Kansas, etc.  They could operate like this.

And we should too. There is nothing good that comes from letting CMW stay year 4. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,969]

3 minutes ago, codesbane said:

Unfortunately we aren't Duke, UK, Kansas, etc.  They could operate like this.

Because they have standards and no one fully faults them for it?

Indiana could have those same standards if we want.  The Media narrative can F off. (we haven't kept up with them in the past because we didn't cheat as well as they did-now we can)

We get a capable enough coach, we have everything else in place to rival those schools besides the standards and expectations.

[True Fan 38]

4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

And we should too. There is nothing good that comes from letting CMW stay year 4. 

We really don't disagree on this as much as it appears on the surface. 

I think that letting him stay a year gives you a full year to truly evaluate your program's strengths and weaknesses.  Really take a deep look at your needs and what gaps need to be filled to rebuild the program and then make the right hire based on that evaluation.

I'm only for letting him stay another year IF we have a plan in place to find the right person and move on.  If we aren't going to spend the year doing that and just fire him at the end of the year, then we might as well fire him now. There is no difference and in that scenario you are right, nothing good comes from keeping him another year.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,907]

2 minutes ago, codesbane said:

We really don't disagree on this as much as it appears on the surface. 

I think that letting him stay a year gives you a full year to truly evaluate your program's strengths and weaknesses.  Really take a deep look at your needs and what gaps need to be filled to rebuild the program and then make the right hire based on that evaluation.

I'm only for letting him stay another year IF we have a plan in place to find the right person and move on.  If we aren't going to spend the year doing that and just fire him at the end of the year, then we might as well fire him now. There is no difference and in that scenario you are right, nothing good comes from keeping him another year.

Why do we need a year to evaluate? We should have been doing that since Mid January. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,840]

24 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Woodson "Indiana is the ****!"

Me: "Indiana is a **** show"

 

How to lose almost the entire fanbase in 1 season:

1.  Misevaluate talent on own roster who you have coached for 1-2 years.  (Banks, Gunn, X, maybe even Galloway to an extent)

2. Fail to land shooting and guards in the transfer portal when it was a CLEAR need for an UPGRADE.  I posted about it ad nauseum.  Thought we are going to get Antonio Reeves at the end.

3. Fail on the court early but barely winning easy games and getting blown out in games that matter because:

a) Players/coaches not on same page for defensive philosphy

b) Hockey subs.  Too much reliance on getting the bench minutes.  

c) Not being flexible within games to let guys play with foul trouble or switching defensive strategies to stop what was killing us.

d) Offensively-----Waiting WAY to long to put the ball in Galloway's hands as a playmaker.  Too much Cupps with the ball.  Also not allowing fast paced play, encouraging transition play, and shots early in the shot clock.

e) A master class of how to F up a talented enough roster to identify your best guys and give those guys the minutes.  TOOK WAY TOO LONG

3. Recruiting, Recruiting, Recruiting (DreamBig#)

a) Get tons of traction with so many top level guys-raise excitement and expectations

b) ignore the middle rated guys that werent good enough (fine)

c) Identify 3 main targets for the world to see. Then the Fland miss, started the swoon.  Then Queen.  Then the McNeely Decommit

4. Get "eliminated" from bubble talk in Jan/ Early February with much of the season is left.  Giving the fans 1-2 months of no hope after 2 months of bad play.

5. Fail to adequately convince the fans his vision and plan will be successful in pressers and post games.  Seemingly being generally clueless about WHY all this is happening.

 

That's how you lose a fanbase in 1 season.

You left out completely and deliberately ignoring the 3-point line -- turning IU from a program that used to value shooting into one of the lowest (by volume) outside shooting teams in all of DI. That's just plain unbelievable, except that it's true.

[Hoosier987 1,069]

1 hour ago, ray said:

I think it's unfair to tell someone they possess tone deaf opinions, and then use a single social media "heresay" post to state what the "whole truth" is. No one with a social media presence (not even Trilly) is being fact-checked before typing out and posting their opinions. I'm sure, as codesbane tried to say and you apparently missed, this is likely a culmination of many factors. 

With that said, though, I think JSHoosier made a point that needs highlighted...and an opinion I believe you share. The fans most certainly have been a steady positive for 20+ years. Even during the post-Sampson era dumpster fire and the horrific record of Crean's beginnings at Indiana, Assembly Hall was selling out. Most fans are, and have been, supportive of even the worst of Indiana's teams. Some fans are toxic, and I would never condone such things as booing a team on the court to get into a coach's head or to prove a point to the administration, but any program with a strong and loyal fanbase will have some toxicity.

Has anyone directly involved in the maintaining or firing of Woodson reported that either May or Pearl have said they would absolutely take the job? Have either of those potential candidates said publicly that if IU offers, then they will for certain accept the job? You say, as a matter of fact, they both would. Would they? Pearl has commented that he loves Indiana, but he's in a good place now with phenomenal pay and seemingly less expectations. He's also probably near his retirement. Would he want to start over from scratch with what seems like a limited time frame? Maybe. Maybe not. Would May leave what he's built for the pay raise and the promotion an Indiana HC job offers, or would he choose to stay in sunny Florida where his job is seemingly secure for a distant foreseeable future? I do think he would take the job, but I don't believe anyone knows that with certainty. I do agree the program is better off sending Woodson packing, and it would have been nice to at least see if either accepted. I would be FAR more hopeful with either at the helm. 

May would absolutely take the job. Instead he will land at OsU or Louisville and have far better teams than we will. 

[IUCrazy2 2,351]

37 minutes ago, Tropiiix said:

What truly "big time" program is on their third coach in 5 years like we would be

Bill Guthridge (left in 2000), Matt Doherty (fired in 2003), then Roy Williams hired.

 

[Five Prime 1,076]

Say whatever you want about Woody but the optics of this are horrible for the program.  

[Muskie for three 307]

Sleepers is a good watch today .