They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[str8baller]

1 minute ago, Scotty R said:

Why didn't Duke, UNC, Villanova or Syracuse

This has been covered multiple times I think, but those specific examples are because HoF coaches retired on good terms and they almost always get to pick someone from their staff as a replacement. The AD isn’t really picking a coach there. 
 

In the last couple decades, KU, UNC, UK, Texas and UCLA have hired coaches away from fellow power conference schools. Indiana has too, but under extenuating circumstances.  It can be done. Timing and Money definitely have to be right, though. 

[Scotty R]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I mean, Duke got lucky too. How many mid-major turn into a Bob Knight or a Mike Krzyzewski, and how many don’t succeed at the major level? Those two are at the very high end of the exception. I doubt even the most optimistic of people ever imagined you’d get 18 final fours and 8 titles out of two coaches from Army.   

You’ll have to incentivize a good coach to leave their power conference job to come to IU. Throw around the kind of money IU allegedly offered Brad Stevens and your chances probably get a lot better. 

You do realize the majority of the HOF coaches started at a mid major level it was hired without any HC  experience.

Calhoun Northeastern to UCONN

Donovan Marshall to Florida

Boheim no HC experience

Izzo no HC experience

Roy Williams Assistant coach to Kansas. Only reason he went to UNC was him.being an UNC alumni.

RMK Army to IU

Coach K Army to Duke

Wooden ISU to UCLA

[str8baller]

1 hour ago, Unexpectedflash said:

I’ve seen FAU come out flat very often this year which has me hesitant. The final four is awesome but if he loses to Memphis in the second round are we still having this conversation. Plus Johnell Davis is an all American in a mid major conference and has taken over games at the end. How much of that is good coaching and how much of that is having a player that is just better than everyone else? That i can’t answer.

I’m in the same boat. Something doesn’t always click for me when I watch them.  
 

With that said, it’s probably just ignorance on my part because I haven’t watched them nearly enough. I love the profile of May and what he’s built there but I haven’t been able to fully jump on board yet. Hopefully that comes soon though!

[HoosierHoopster]

15 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

It isn't just Indiana but the college landscape in general. You just don't see many power 5 conference coaches leaving to take another job. Why didn't Duke, UNC, Villanova or Syracuse go the route of the experience power 5 conference coach.

Yes but there are guys who move / are forced out etc who are good hires— Barnes for example, hadn’t missed a tourney at UT but wasn’t advancing deep enough regularly for them, very good coach. There are of course others. 
The reports out when CAM was hired were that certain top tier guys said no interest to IU. How much of that was general lack of movement and how much the fishbowl of difficulty that is IU bball is a deeper discussion and subject to opinion 

[Banksyrules]

10 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I’m in the same boat. Something doesn’t always click for me when I watch them.  
 

With that said, it’s probably just ignorance on my part because I haven’t watched them nearly enough. I love the profile of May and what he’s built there but I haven’t been able to fully jump on board yet. Hopefully that comes soon though!

If anything it says something that he can get a good player to play for his team.  

[Kentuckysucks]

4 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Yes but there are guys who move / are forced out etc who are good hires— Barnes for example, hadn’t missed a tourney at UT but wasn’t advancing deep enough regularly for them, very good coach. There are of course others. 
The reports out when CAM was hired were that certain top tier guys said no interest to IU. How much of that was general lack of movement and how much the fishbowl of difficulty that is IU bball is a deeper discussion and subject to opinion 

Fred was all in on Donovan.  When he couldn't close that deal he went out and hired Archie on his own.  Didn't sound like he seriously targeted anyone else from what I heard.

[Scotty R]

48 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

You do realize the majority of the HOF coaches started at a mid major level it was hired without any HC  experience.

Calhoun Northeastern to UCONN

Donovan Marshall to Florida

Boheim no HC experience

Izzo no HC experience

Roy Williams Assistant coach to Kansas. Only reason he went to UNC was him.being an UNC alumni.

RMK Army to IU

Coach K Army to Duke

Wooden ISU to UCLA

I thought if a few more

Wright Hofstra to Villanova 

Crum UCLA assistant to UL

Smith assistant to UNC

Pitino Boston University to Providence to NBA to UK to NBA to UL

Calamari UMASS to the NBA to Memphis to UK

Stevens Butler to the Boston Celtics. If the Celtics the most historic franchise can hire aid major coach then I think IU can.

[Scotty R]

39 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Yes but there are guys who move / are forced out etc who are good hires— Barnes for example, hadn’t missed a tourney at UT but wasn’t advancing deep enough regularly for them, very good coach. There are of course others. 
The reports out when CAM was hired were that certain top tier guys said no interest to IU. How much of that was general lack of movement and how much the fishbowl of difficulty that is IU bball is a deeper discussion and subject to opinion 

I think most have no reason to leave their current job to come here. Why leave where you have been a proven winner to come here and be under pressure right away

[AZ Hoosier]

1 hour ago, Kentuckysucks said:

Fred was all in on Donovan.  When he couldn't close that deal he went out and hired Archie on his own.  Didn't sound like he seriously targeted anyone else from what I heard.

That seems to be the biggest issue with Indiana hiring coaches... they swing big (Donovan, Stevens) and when they whiff, they pretty much take the first warm body that comes along (Miller, Woodson)... and we struggle.

So, this time around, there needs to be a list that they work top down... and for the sake of our sanity, please have a plan.

[Kentuckysucks]

No show tonight for the radio show?

 

[Golfman25]

2 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

^^^ The root of the problem as I see it is that IU may well not be in position to attract the top tier - type coaches at this point that many want -- the ones who aren't perceived as a risk. 

The other guys, May, Schertz, are risks. Probably can be considered pretty good risks, but still risks. But the U may just have to roll the dice (if / when this all happens). Schertz is getting some pub recently, here's another piece -- https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39512454/no-23-indiana-state-ranked-first-1979

And this guy looks like the guys I used to play against at the local gym, lol ...

Right, and just mitigate the risk by establishing whether or not he has an actual plan to build a program or is just a BSer.  I know I keep going back to Cig, but he gives you a plan and foundational principles.  Just model the next hire off of that.    

[AZ Hoosier]

6 minutes ago, Kentuckysucks said:

No show tonight for the radio show?

 

Woodson is spending the time trying to get 'em over the hump... 

So he doesn't recruit, can't make any in-game adjustments and now he's not meeting with the fans? Sounds like a coach on his way out...

[str8baller]

1 hour ago, Banksyrules said:

If anything it says something that he can get a good player to play for his team.  

Sure, but you can’t build a major program on a single good player. He’d need to be able to get several per 4 year recruiting cycle.  
 

I could name a bunch of coaches who were thought to be the next big thing based off of getting one or two players to campus one time. Tim Floyd and Billy Gillespie come to mind. I could come up with more probably.  Heck, Crean could probably fit that category to an extent.
 

I do like that May has built something there though over a few years. Those are some extra data points in his favor. 

[NashvilleHoosier]

2 hours ago, Unexpectedflash said:

I agree with this. Prolonged regular season success is more important to me than one tourney run. Doing it at two schools also helps and it only took him two years for ISU to get back. I’ve seen FAU come out flat very often this year which has me hesitant. The final four is awesome but if he loses to Memphis in the second round are we still having this conversation. Plus Johnell Davis is an all American in a mid major conference and has taken over games at the end. How much of that is good coaching and how much of that is having a player that is just better than everyone else? That i can’t answer.

You’re right, if they lose to Memphis we likely aren’t having this conversation. On the flip side, if the FF game doesn’t end in similar fashion, he coaches for a National Championship. They still beat some really solid teams along the way. And I’d imagine if you remove the biggest accomplishment from each candidate’s resume, many will be less appealing and some would no longer be considered. And the Johnell Davis thing seems like quite a feather in May’s cap, no? Every single high major missed on this kid, he develops into an all-American under May and comes back to play another year for him at FAU when he could have hit the portal and had his pick among the who’s who of college basketball. 

[Scotty R]

22 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Woodson is spending the time trying to get 'em over the hump... 

So he doesn't recruit, can't make any in-game adjustments and now he's not meeting with the fans? Sounds like a coach on his way out...

Do we know if he could be out recruiting 

[IUFAN1976]

25 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Woodson is spending the time trying to get 'em over the hump... 

So he doesn't recruit, can't make any in-game adjustments and now he's not meeting with the fans? Sounds like a coach on his way out...

I agree!  He’s avoiding the difficult questions that fans will ask!  

[Scotty R]

Just now, IUFAN1976 said:

I agree!  He’s avoiding the difficult questions that fans will ask!  

This happened about a month or so to go and people started jumping to these same conclusions. To find out he was out recruiting. I get it that Woodson has not done a good job this year but why start making things up without knowing the facts.

[ziggyiu]

8 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I think one former basketball manager would love to hire another former basketball manager as the next coach. It's just getting everyone else on board. 

I'm just speculating--I'm not advocating. 

@Chris007 - Do you think Dolson would try to work a coach-in-waiting situation for May? Kind of like a one year deal that smooths the transition? Gives Woodson one more season to get thngs back on track but also secures the future. (Again, in Dolson's mind.) Similar to the Keady, Painter situation? Obviously, Painter had just one year at SIU and then made the jump. May is much more advanced in his career. Curious to get your thoughts. Is this something you think Dolson would pursue? Isbit something either coach would be amenable to?

[Kentuckysucks]

4 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

This happened about a month or so to go and people started jumping to these same conclusions. To find out he was out recruiting. I get it that Woodson has not done a good job this year but why start making things up without knowing the facts.

The IU basketball twitter page put out a tweet that he would be doing the show. 

 

 

[SamIam]

14 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I could name a bunch of coaches who were thought to be the next big thing based off of getting one or two players to campus one time. Tim Floyd and Billy Gillespie come to mind. I could come up with more probably.  Heck, Crean could probably fit that category to an extent.

This would be a good point if their success was based on Nelly Davis. FAU plays a ton of guards and Davis came off the bench for like half the season last year. Davis played only 60% of FAU's minutes (Trayce played 80% of ours for ref).

He isn't the sole reason for their success. Besides, idk how we have moved on to knocking potential coaches for....recruiting and developing good players?