They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[ziggyiu]

23 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Not really. Alvarez exercised almost universal control over UW football. Of course, he built the thing and kept it near the top for about twenty more years. There are other examples, but they too are singularly successful people. I’m sure that is confusing, almost alien, to people within the IU administration, though. 

You're pointing out an exception to the rule. Also, the reason he exerted so much control is because of what you said. He built it. So, the money people behind UW athletics trusted him and gave him the automony. The big money people at IU didn't trust Scott and didn't give him autonomy after Archie was let go. Maybe they will now. Maybe not. But the money people behind big college athletics are real and they often do rule behind the scenes. Sometimes they are benevolent and in lock-step with the AD, sometimes not. 

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, ziggyiu said:

You're pointing out an exception to the rule. Also, the reason he exerted so much control is because of what you said. He built it. So, the money people behind UW athletics trusted him and gave him the automony. The big money people at IU didn't trust Scott and didn't give him autonomy after Archie was let go. Maybe they will now. Maybe not. But the money people behind big college athletics are real and they often do rule behind the scenes. Sometimes they are benevolent and in lock-step with the AD, sometimes not. 

Clearly the money people trust Dolson now.  Never could have given the big boy contract to Cig otherwise 

[Pagoda]

17 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Let’s hop over to the FIRE DOLSON thread if true and get that humming. A team with this much talent and payroll should never be down by 38 points to a team coming off life support, period.

Agree.  Fortunately, it appears Cathy is just a Woody apologist.  That was her agenda all along and she doesn't know what Scott and others are thinking.

Scott seems to be the one who knows what they're doing in the world of IU athletics.  After the Cignetti hire/extension, personally I trust him with basketball.  I hope all these "stakeholders" back off and let him do his thing.  I'm pretty sure he's been prepping for this hire for some time.

Edited December 3, 2024 by Pagoda

[str8baller]

4 minutes ago, ziggyiu said:

Sometimes they are benevolent and in lock-step with the AD, sometimes not. 

That’s merely a reflection of their own competence. 
 

I listed one example I knew for a fact. Lickliter at Butler and basketball. Jurich at Lville was purported to have final say during his tenure. Either way, there are other examples of schools empowering talented people. Obviously the job involves schmoozing donors and placating alumni to some extent, but it’s simply not a fact that having a bunch of voices in the room for decision making time is the only way. It’s just how Indiana operates. 
 

 

[Pagoda]

Just now, str8baller said:

That’s merely a reflection of their own competence. 
 

I listed one example I knew for a fact. Lickliter at Butler and basketball. Jurich at Lville was purported to have final say during his tenure. Either way, there are other examples of schools empowering talented people. Obviously the job involves schmoozing donors and placating alumni to some extent, but it’s simply not a fact that having a bunch of voices in the room for decision making time is the only way. It’s just how Indiana operates. 
 

 

Someone may know better than me, but it seems like Mitch Barnhart was given control of keeping/firing Cal and then handling their coaching search. 

[str8baller]

6 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

Scott seems to be the one who knows what they're doing in the world of IU athletics.  After the Cignetti hire/extension, personally I trust him with basketball.  I hope all these "stakeholders" back off and let him do his thing.  I'm pretty sure he's been prepping for this hire for some time.

Just to play devils advocate, I’d say the cig hire was a home run. Giving him that extension is upping the stakes. Plenty of schools have handed out big contracts to coaches after an initial bout of success and then regretted it. Call up your friendly Florida state fan if you want horror stories.   
 

As far as basketball didn’t dolson lead the failed Steven’s hire which led to Woody? And didn’t dolson give Woody a raise? 
 

Also, where would all the trust of dolson come from? If IU does things by committee wouldn’t those people want credit for hiring cig? And wouldn’t they want a say in the next big hire? 
 

(again, ftr I’m a cig fan)

[KathywithaC]

2 hours ago, AZ Hoosier said:

oooohhh... she really is an insider. :D 

I didn’t see it, I was just amazed that you admitted it.

[KathywithaC]

25 minutes ago, str8baller said:

That’s merely a reflection of their own competence. 
 

I listed one example I knew for a fact. Lickliter at Butler and basketball. Jurich at Lville was purported to have final say during his tenure. Either way, there are other examples of schools empowering talented people. Obviously the job involves schmoozing donors and placating alumni to some extent, but it’s simply not a fact that having a bunch of voices in the room for decision making time is the only way. It’s just how Indiana operates. 
 

 

You think either of those guys ever hired a basketball or football (UL) coach without getting feedback from their President and key boosters? Promise you they didn’t if they knew what they were doing.

[Hoosierfanyuh]

KathywithaC is just saying a potential firing won’t happen til end of season, why is everyone so pissy with her? Lol

[KathywithaC]

2 hours ago, Pagoda said:

You’ve said a lot more than that.  We all read your multitude of posts, some of which were pretty unhinged.  Not a good look.

All of it true, none of it unhinged.

[Pagoda]

3 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Just to play devils advocate, I’d say the cig hire was a home run. Giving him that extension is upping the stakes. Plenty of schools have handed out big contracts to coaches after an initial bout of success and then regretted it. Call up your friendly Florida state fan if you want horror stories.   
 

As far as basketball didn’t dolson lead the failed Steven’s hire which led to Woody? And didn’t dolson give Woody a raise? 
 

Also, where would all the trust of dolson come from? If IU does things by committee wouldn’t those people want credit for hiring cig? And wouldn’t they want a say in the next big hire? 
 

(again, ftr I’m a cig fan)

That's fair -- maybe the Cig extension doesn't work out.  My guess is he is our best chance to be good at FB, and we rarely get chances like this.  We had to pay him a market rate for a coach who can win 7-9 games per year and sometimes get involved in the playoff, or else someone else probably would.  I'm looking forward to seeing our athletic dept revenue for 2024, I'm guessing Cig will pay for himself.

Dolson came in as AD and he basically had no experience.  That's a separate issue.  He whiffed on Brad, but that was a longshot, and at least his head was in the right place.  The Woodson hire had Quinn's fingerprints all over it, all the articles on the hire had a bunch of quotes from Quinn and Scott was thanking Quinn for being the liaison.  It's pretty clear what happened -- Scott got steamrolled on this decision.

I didn't like the raise, it wasn't earned yet.  I don't know if that was Scott or Quinn. And if you wanted to be critical of Scott you could say the Allen extension was the wrong call.  I don't know.

The Cig hire seemed to be led by Scott.  No signs of other "stakeholder" involvement.  Cig only talked about Scott and Pam.  That's why I give him credit on that hire.

Scott isn't perfect and he may get the bball hire wrong.  But I think he has a good chance to get it right.  And I don't know who else would give us a better chance to make a good hire.  Sort of Scott or bust in my opinion.

[KathywithaC]

2 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Yeah he sucked at his job as well.   NBA guy with 0 college basketball coaching experience failed.    Add him to the list of failed ex nba guys that sucked as college coaches.  

It’s Chris “Mullin”, not “Mullins”. A basketball fan would know this.

[Deserthoozier]

7 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

I’m not saying he’s blind to what might have to happen down the road, but he’s not making the assumption that it is inevitable, or anything like that. He’ll watch it unfold, he’ll evaluate, he’ll decide. And it will all occur in consultation with others. His voice has considerable weight, but it’s not the only voice that matters. It never has been for him or any of his predecessors.

Appreciate your input and insight. Some might suggest that it’s exactly the bureaucratic inefficiency of such a committee based ‘IU process’ that has inhibited men’s basketball success for 30 years!!! Sometimes decision makers need to make quick choices, sink or swim…and then be held accountable. Balancing what success is by committee can be tediously bureaucratic and often lead to mediocre or poor results. 

[IUCrazy2]

2 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

It happens. It was awful. It was also one game in late November and hardly cause for people to flip out. 

One game, preceded by several others the past 3 years and followed by another butt stomping a day later.  Do go on though....

[KathywithaC]

2 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

Cathy, respectfully put the bottle down.  Miller was a "hot commodity" was going to get is chance at IU or elsewhere.  Woodson was out of left field and still doesn't understand the college game.  

Hot commodity to fans, yes, but there were all kinds of whispers in the coaching community that he wasn’t ready for prime time. We went straight for the dessert table and ignored what our own placement firm warned us about.

[KathywithaC]

Just now, IUCrazy2 said:

One game, preceded by several others the past 3 years and followed by another butt stomping a day later.  Do go on though....

So, fire him now, which is what people here have been saying today? 

[KathywithaC]

3 minutes ago, Deserthoozier said:

Appreciate your input and insight. Some might suggest that it’s exactly the bureaucratic inefficiency of such a committee based ‘IU process’ that has inhibited men’s basketball success for 30 years!!! Sometimes decision makers need to make quick choices, sink or swim…and then be held accountable. Balancing what success is by committee can be tediously bureaucratic and often lead to mediocre or poor results. 

It’s not so much a committee approach as it is one that requires multiple inputs and consensus building. Most of the powers defer to the AD but, if he fails to seek their opinion / input, he’s left open to significant criticism. Ask his predecessor how that works out.

[Banksyrules]

1 minute ago, KathywithaC said:

It’s not so much a committee approach as it is one that requires multiple inputs and consensus building. Most of the powers defer to the AD but, if he fails to seek their opinion / input, he’s left open to significant criticism. Ask his predecessor how that works out.

At UNC and Duke it works differently because we want him to do their JOB. Too many chefs in the kitchen is always a bad formula. 

[IUCrazy2]

10 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

So, fire him now, which is what people here have been saying today? 

No.  I think a few people are saying that but the majority are saying that it is time to move on after this year.  Me personally, removing my distatse for how he acts, I don't think Woodson is worth the squeeze after this year.  He isn't a championship level coach and if we roll out the same payroll for the next guy, there are probably a hundred better options than him out there.  

Firing him now doesn't really change anything, but if I was Dolson my mind would already be made up that this is his swan song.....now whether or not Scott has the political capital to pull that off will probably depend on how the year goes.  If I were him though, a good Woodson season I would send him off a "hero" and a bad season I would have him "retire", but at the end of the day, this would be his last year if I were Dolson and there were no other interests involved.

[Pagoda]

4 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

It’s not so much a committee approach as it is one that requires multiple inputs and consensus building. Most of the powers defer to the AD but, if he fails to seek their opinion / input, he’s left open to significant criticism. Ask his predecessor how that works out.

This is a nightmare approach to hiring a basketball coach and running an organization.