Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[RaceToTheTop 25,031]

48 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

Seems like some take everything he says as gospel. The invisible man trilly he is like a ghost.

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Not as gospel but more accurate than anyone who is posting with an actual name.  There is a reason that a ghost is more accurate than them -- ghosts don't have to worry about burning bridges.

[OKHOOSIER 1,984]

3 minutes ago, ClarkCoHoosier said:

My thinking is, if we don’t see anything from Trey and Anthony today, they will be going through senior day. Usually the kids announce on social media if they are coming back. 

I’m sure it’s happened more than once but the only impact player I can think of that went through senior day and stayed put was Boo Buie. Otherwise I agree, we should know soon. Probably around the time Woody does lol

[Stuhoo 79,802]

2 minutes ago, OKHOOSIER said:

I’m sure it’s happened more than once but the only impact player I can think of that went through senior day and stayed put was Boo Buie. Otherwise I agree, we should know soon. Probably around the time Woody does lol

Colin Hartmann I believe 

[LamarCheeks 18,221]

3 minutes ago, OKHOOSIER said:

I’m sure it’s happened more than once but the only impact player I can think of that went through senior day and stayed put was Boo Buie. Otherwise I agree, we should know soon. Probably around the time Woody does lol

 

Just now, Stuhoo said:

Colin Hartmann I believe 

Didn't Race do that? 

[AZ Hoosier 6,577]

2 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

The problem is he is not LEARNING jack squat.  He's stubborn, arrogant and refuses to listen to his help.  

I don't think that Woodson thinks that there is anything for him to learn... he was a mediocre NBA coach where there was no player development, no recruiting, where feeding the post was the only way to play the game. Ten years later he's a college coach, still not developing players, still not recruiting and still feeding the post because, 10 years later, it's the only way to play the game.

When the results don't follow, he mumbles about getting over the hump, throws players under the bus and then goes and hangs out with his boys with cigars and wine and having a great time.

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

29 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Plus Woody made claims that he was going to run a 4 out offense and even stated he changed that to utilize TJD.  So going into this year we expected to see him build that offense. Instead he reverts back to feed the post and now says that is how the college game should be played. 
 

He also said he was going to build through HS and supplement with the portal. That hasn’t been the case and I think he tactically made a mistake thinking he could do this without putting in the time to go to HS kids games.  
 

Add these to his comments about competing for BT and national titles but finding ourselves pretty far from both most of his time here.  Last year showed some hope and he seemed to have a bit of recruiting momentum but he seems to have misjudged his ability to build through HS recruiting. 
 

So as we sit here now, 0 HS recruits, the one we had just left and we will have at a minimum 4 portal needs but in reality we will need a minimum of 6 and perhaps several more.  Given Woodys age, the chance to rebuild for sustainable success is gone with him as HC. He could get mercenaries to come in and might just they lucky enough to have some success but building through HS is unfathomable until we make a HC change. 

If we hired May I think we could get the entire FAU team to come here and we’d be in great shape over night 

[ClarkCoHoosier 70]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

Didn’t Race? 

I think you’re right. Seems like I remember him being really emotional. 

[RaceToTheTop 25,031]

43 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I disagree with this. He’s a typical 4 star freshman making mistakes and adjusting as they do. You are ignoring some of the early games he competed well on defense against some solid competition. He’s also gotten to a respectable 35% from 3. Low attempts but solid for a freshman who was a reluctant shooter at first.  
 

It’ll be mostly academic if Woody comes back, imo. But if he transfers, you’ll see him pop up and play at a solid program. He’s the type of 4yr solid rotation guy you like to keep as a piece even if you’re adding in the portal. You can only add so much every year. 

Low attempts at 35% isn't good -- 35% low volume means most of those are good looks. I agree that he is just a freshman and will get better and he shouldn't be playing the minutes he is but the reason he is was because of lack of options.  X makes the team better but even with a healthy X the team had an opening for another guard option that wasn't used.  We knew X was going to be an injury risk, we knew that Newton was an injury risk and was just a freshman to boot.  That was an issue with the roster construction.

It's very strange that our starting 3-4-5 has made more threes and at a higher percentage than our five guards of Galloway, X, Cupps, Gunn, and Leal.  Galloway regressing from last year was probably to be expected but not to the degree that it's happened.  It is hard to win in the college game when you have guards with both volume AND efficiency behind the arc.  A lot of that could have been cured by just another spot up shooter.

[AZ Hoosier 6,577]

1 hour ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

I can't keep up with 13000+ posts of the same stuff. Can someone give me a synopsis?


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Mike Woodson can't recruit or coach is way out of a paper bag.
Mike Woodson is the best thing that ever happened to Indiana basketball.
Mike Woodson will be back for season 4.

[NVFalcons1990 355]

1 hour ago, Hornsby said:

It was like glass saying he wanted to compete for national titlesand then hires archie.

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To be fair Archie was considered being a home run hire when he was chosen for us.  He was the next young up and coming coach.

Sometimes things just don’t work out.  But everyone was hot on Archie being the biggest catch back then.

 

[JF87 1,413]

1 hour ago, OKHOOSIER said:

Yea no one has been bashing Cupps, his minutes were a by product of other issues that were not his fault. Woody continuing to ride him in games where he was so overmatched at both ends frankly made me feel bad for Cupps. It wasn’t just IU fans. Every Reddit game thread had opposing fans observing how hard he was trying chasing around players he shouldn’t have been on the floor with. Cupps is not B1G caliber PG. not now, not in four years. Hope I’m wrong and he can develop. But development isn’t going to add size or athleticism. I think he’d be great at a place like Dayton. It speaks to one of the systemic issues— woody not putting his players in a position to succeed for most of the season. The last few games are a perfect example. Tight rotations, playing your horses with 2 fouls, less time with 2 centers on the floor, pulling non-contributors as soon as possible for rest, moving in transition, basically all the things we and the IU media were screeching for in November December and January. This is not a team devoid of talent despite the roster holes, Woody has himself to blame for this smoke. There is a tournament team in this bunch. And it would have been a good coaching job and this thread wouldn’t exist and we’d probably have some recruits for 24.

I think you are wrong about Cupps.  I believe he can develop into a Brad Davison type in his Junior and Senior years. He was never supposed to be an impact player as a freshman. 

[Hornsby 1,652]

Going off the Assembly Call show they did earlier this week, Mike Weismuth (sp) Iu_in_philly or something like that when he was a lowly poster like us said that when he was looking at things and putting together his stats to see what successful coaches looked like early on, the most important thing was that second and third recruiting cycle.  You have to hit on those guys.  You have to get the right guys in to run what you want to run.  You mess up on those 2 recruiting cycles and you are not likely to last past year 5.
I think any new coach should have that in mind.  You can have hiccups in year 1 and 2.  That is when you have your fan honeymoon and can still sell recruits on the idea that things aren't great yet because I haven't been able to completely enact my vision yet.  By year 3 or 4 you have to have things moving positively or you are toast.
Woodson's biggest issue this year isn't so much just the losses, it is that he has doubled down on a philosophy that isn't in vogue (or winning enough) and he has absolutely nothing he can point to for the fanbase going into year 4 to say, "See, help is on the way.  Can you see my vision with what we have coming?"  He has nothing to sell right now.  You can't be in that spot in year 3.  You have to come in with a five year plan and execute it.  I don't think Woodson really thought that far ahead.  I think he thought the Indiana name, his NBA experience, and money was going to buy him some of the best rosters in college and he would just outcoach these minor leaguers from there.  That hasn't been the case.  In fact, it was super unlikely to work that way and was a flawed approach to begin with.

Yep he basically said Woodson is now out of that honeymoon stage where recruits usually aren't judging your results. No wonder recruiting had dried up.

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[TadQueasy 672]

8 minutes ago, NVFalcons1990 said:

To be fair Archie was considered being a home run hire when he was chosen for us.  He was the next young up and coming coach.

Sometimes things just don’t work out.  But everyone was hot on Archie being the biggest catch back then.

 

I dont think I would go that far.  There were people upset that Archie was selected.  

But he had a great name!  ya meathead you!  

[RaceToTheTop 25,031]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

I say it again, who we getting? Right now. 

If you bring in just a guy because the current guy isn’t working, you set yourself up for another 3/4 years before the next move. Firmly believe the combination of all of it means you can’t just hire Dusty. 

Or you wait until you have “the guy” then you make the move. FB and Allen situation has zero correlation. It has always been bad and new coach expectations are way lower.

Hypothetical

- you keep Woody and maybe he does it against the odds or maybe he fails. If he fails, you have another year to line up the guy. The big time, sure fire winner type. You lost a year while also having a small chance you didn’t need to make the move.

- you hire Dusty type. He struggles with immediate results. Fans and media start turning. We have seen this enough to know it would happen. Now in year 3/4 we he is out. You lost more years in that scenario. I think the scenario of him succeeding is same % or lower than Woody digging out. This scenario is what you have to lose for those who feel there is nothing. 

I believe Dolson did try. I believe he probably still is in a round about way. It all came to an end once it became apparent we can’t lock a guy in. 

You don’t fire a guy without a rock solid plan in this situation. It isn’t fear of the unknown. It is smart. 

Your hypothetical is full of assumptions.  If we are going with your hypothetical, why even fire Woodson after next year if he fails?  Heck, if IU fails next year, why not just give Woodson another year beause maybe he does it against the odds the following year?

Maybe you hire Dusty and he has immediate results.  You are continuing with the 'it's the fans and media' fault with the whole 'fans and media start turning'.  If you think the fans and media are going to be brutal next year if the new guy doesn't start winning, exactly what do you think will happen after another year of failure and then a new coach not having immediate results?

In terms of 'who are we getting', the answer is currently we are getting another year of a guy who has shown zero interest in changing, zero interest in doing the hard work in recruiting, and zero interest in engaging with the fans and media.  I -- nor you -- are privy to know who IU could get now.  But unlike you, I have zero faith in that seat being more attractive a year from now if Woodson fails.  You seem worried about the unknown.  I am worried about the known.

[Hornsby 1,652]

Not as gospel but more accurate than anyone who is posting with an actual name.  There is a reason that a ghost is more accurate than them -- ghosts don't have to worry about burning bridges.

I am not saying he hasn't been accurate mostly but those that paid for his discord were getting some crazy takes. The whole roster was leaving, etc


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[IndyHoops 461]

51 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

 

Glad I could contribute to your day. 
 

Said it already . Dusty might go to OSU and win but thinking he can handle IU is different. This is the same guy who went home, cried and had a break down when he saw FAU facilities after he accepted the job and almost quit the same night. He can’t handle this mess. This is way harder than some facilities and a program with zero expectations. Coming in after Crean, maybe would work. Not now. 
 

Ignoring that is the real hilariously bad take. 

So, keep the current crappy coach because the next coach might fail? That’s the logic here? You obviously haven’t been around awhile. This excuse was used by the pro-Crean and pro-Miller crowd. 

[Hornsby 1,652]

Mike Woodson can't recruit or coach is way out of a paper bag.
Mike Woodson is the best thing that ever happened to Indiana basketball.
Mike Woodson will be back for season 4.

Throw in Dusty May will end of somewhere else just like Matta and Steven's did. The iu admins are too incompetent to know that you have s
strike when you have your chance.

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[AZ Hoosier 6,577]

40 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Woodson's biggest issue this year isn't so much just the losses, it is that he has doubled down on a philosophy that isn't in vogue (or winning enough) and he has absolutely nothing he can point to for the fanbase going into year 4 to say, "See, help is on the way.  Can you see my vision with what we have coming?"  He has nothing to sell right now.  You can't be in that spot in year 3.  You have to come in with a five year plan and execute it.  I don't think Woodson really thought that far ahead.  I think he thought the Indiana name, his NBA experience, and money was going to buy him some of the best rosters in college and he would just outcoach these minor leaguers from there.  That hasn't been the case.  In fact, it was super unlikely to work that way and was a flawed approach to begin with.

Mike Woodson was dissed when IU gave the job to Archie... it looks like Mike Woodson was completely blindsided when he got the IU gig... no plan, no clue what he wanted to do, no clue how to lead a P5 college team, no interest in learning (was beneath the mighty Mike Woodson), no interest in using the helps that the administration gave him (Matta and Fife), no clue what "the hump" is or how to get over it, and absolutely no interest in going away.

[NVFalcons1990 355]

1 hour ago, OKHOOSIER said:

I want this to be true, I just personally don’t see it. And based on even your assertion, his defense has regressed as well as his decision making. He has 100% shown flashes, I just don’t see a starting PG, and that’s his role here going forward pending the portal. He certainly can provide minutes, but he has been abused off the dribble against more athletic guards to include fellow freshmen. Also I don’t think I was clear I 100% don’t want him to transfer, I just don’t envision his role here the way he’s been used, that was more my point is Woody not using him in ways that put him a position to succeed. 

Give the kid a break, he does everything the right way and plays hard.  He was asked to do a lot, let him hit the weights and grow as a player.  We seen Malik’s jump, Cupps could have that same jump in year 2.

[Hornsby 1,652]

To be fair Archie was considered being a home run hire when he was chosen for us.  He was the next young up and coming coach.
Sometimes things just don’t work out.  But everyone was hot on Archie being the biggest catch back then.
 

It certainly made more sense than the Woodson hire but I had expected a bigger name than archie. But I learned my lesson never have any faith in an iu AD.

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