Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Home Jersey 7,726]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Not sure who this "we" is.

If a school's NIL collective (in this case, IU's) is willing to pay, that's the free market determining that player's worth to a certain employer. There's no union scale in play here. In fact, though Gunn and Bank's scholarships are guaranteed, if we want to encourage them to move on, all we have to do is let them know that their projected NIL collective money at IU next year is $10.00. 

Yes, this NIL stuff is a pretty pure free-market, unregulated situation. In fact, in most ways it's a 'freer' market than the economy at large.

A "free market" is not always desirable or good. The freer the market ≠ the better the market. An appropriate amount of regulation is desirable, but also subjective. Free market discourse can easily turn political so I will leave it at that.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,875]

I should bite my tongue but I was once told I had the tact of a charging @$$ and I took it as a compliment.

So what that Leal got paid $5,833/point.  In the new norm, every scholarship player is gonna get paid.  I don't like it but it is what it is and moaning and groaning what any one player got paid is just pointless.  

The comments Trey and Anthony made at Senior Night would not have been so negatively received had not Mediocre Mike flipped off the fans and already set a bad tone.  But even at that how can everyone be so upset being told to "chill"?  I'd wager some of you have children who have told you to "chill" or a similar word and you don't give it a second thought.

If you don't make a habit of it, read through the game threads and see the comments that are directed at our players.  Not just 1 or 2 but every one of them have repeatedly been brow beaten and degraded at some point in the season.  Sure they made bonehead plays and demonstrated low bball IQ at times but for the greatest part of the season I truly believe they played as hard and as good as they could with the skill levels they have.  Not their fault roster construction was the pits.  Not their fault the style of play Woody insisted on playing didn't play to individual strengths.  And some of you are upset you were told to "chill."  In hindsight, I wish Anthony had used some kind of words far worse than "chill".  FO or KMA come to mind. 

[Hoosier DaDa 2,501]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

There wasn't a player on the team this year who was making under 75K

So with tuition even the 13th scholarship player earns over 100K...oops we didn't use our last scholarship because you know "We Good" 

[rcbowla 7,132]

19 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I disagree. I think the ejection came because he couldn't stand to watch his team get destroyed by Nebraska any longer. It's an NBA/MLB move -- when things are completely derailed whisper the magic words to the refs and walk off in a huff with an early exit.

In this situation it was truly pathetic.

• I was better with 'salty Woody' venting after winning five straight that I am with 'getting @$$ kicked Woody' doing the old man shuffle off of the court instead of staying to tend to his team.

Agree. It was a coward move. You stay and endure with the rest of your team/staff. Nobody made eye contact with him on his way out either. 

[ClarkCoHoosier 70]

3 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

I don’t think we can blame Indiana players for taking advantage of the current college athletics landscape/market. And if anybody is actually playing for the name on the front of the jersey, it’s Anthony Leal. 

I agree. And sometimes players are very valuable to the team, even if they don't play a lot. I feel like Anthony is one of those players. He seems to be a leader on the team. He is like another coach on the sidelines and when he does play, he knows where everyone should be on every play. And he is a great ambassador for the school, he loves IU. I'll always be a fan of his.

[Hornsby 2,042]

I 100% think the ejection came because he was still pouting from being asked to retire. 

I just read the Ryan Phillips article. 100% spot on especially when he mentions woodsons massive ego

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[Stuhoo 81,093]

Just now, Home Jersey said:

A "free market" is not always desirable or good. The freer the market ≠ the better the market. An appropriate amount of regulation is desirable, but also subjective.

100% agree with this! 

And I'll add; the answer as to whether any amount of regulation is a good idea is "it depends."

I guess my point was that IU, Leal, Galloway, and all of the portal-listers are functioning in the level of market regulation that is currently in place.

[IUCrazy2 2,429]

13 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Pocket watching is never a good look. Welcome to the real world, folks!

It is when you are the ones somewhat involved in filling the pockets.

If I know Company A charges a premium for a poor product so that they can overpay their staff, that will eventually send me to another company....

Part of the talk for pro teams every year comes down to salary.  Semi-pro athletes in college are going to have to get used to fans pocket watching them like any other professional player would.  If they feel you are overpaid for your results, it is going to be a topic of discussion.

[Golfman25 5,482]

21 minutes ago, ib4iu said:

Are these players 1099 or IU employees? How does it work? Wasn’t sure if the collectives had to funnel through the university. If that were the case, and they were employees of a public university earning so much, wouldn’t that have to be public information?

They are supposed to be "endorsement' deals, Independent of the university.  It really is a slush fund given to the coach to hand out to players he deems worthy.  It will all come crashing down in a few years.    

[OKHOOSIER 2,406]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Not sure who this "we" is.

If a school's NIL collective (in this case, IU's) is willing to pay, that's the free market determining that player's worth to a certain employer. There's no union scale in play here. In fact, though Gunn and Bank's scholarships are guaranteed, if we want to encourage them to move on, all we have to do is let them know that their projected NIL collective money at IU next year is $10.00. 

Yes, this NIL stuff is a pretty pure free-market, unregulated situation. In fact, in most ways it's a 'freer' market than the economy at large.

Except all of that assumes competition. If we (I am talking about the royal we, IU), set the value at a level where there is no competition for the services of the player we are making up the market value to our own ends. IMO, keeping a roster as intact as possible whether said player actually fills a need. The players aren't taking advantage of the market, they're taking advantage of IU because IU is desperate for players/continuity. Again, I do not have a problem with it, if IU is dumb enough to overpay to keep some semblance of the 23-24 roster intact, the players can and should take advantage of that. 

[Hovadipo 56,322]

4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

It is when you are the ones somewhat involved in filling the pockets.

If I know Company A charges a premium for a poor product so that they can overpay their staff, that will eventually send me to another company....

Part of the talk for pro teams every year comes down to salary.  Semi-pro athletes in college are going to have to get used to fans pocket watching them like any other professional player would.  If they feel you are overpaid for your results, it is going to be a topic of discussion.

If you're talking about giving directly to IU, you're not involved with filling the players' pockets.

If you're talking about giving to NIL collectives, that seems like pretty easy discretionary spending to cut if people don't think they're getting their money's worth.

[realTomCrean 1,540]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

$6 million for 13 players equals an average of $461,500 per player.

If the three lowest paid players make $150,00 each, that leaves $5.5 million-ish for ten players. 

If the next lowest five players average $250k each, that leaves almost $1 million per year for our top five players.

That kind of cabbage will buy us a 'best of portal' team in a hurry.

Stuhoo, you're on fire this morning. Question: Does the $6M or each player making $X also figure in personal deals with local companies? Ex: Leal Deal at Mother Bear's - I assume he gets a % off the top of each order or monthly. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,195]

29 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

I wonder if when Dolson had player meetings if he was like “if any of you who want to leave, do you think you’d stay if I was able to land this guy..”, or if they truly do want to play for Woodson, or are fine with just getting a pay bump to play for him again. I thought I saw someone mention maybe some of the players are gonna wait out deciding on entering the portal based on if we end up getting a new coach that they’d be willing to stay for. 

That would be the exact type thing that started this whole s*** show, listening to players and allowing them to hold us hostage. 

[JF87 1,490]

The previous posts about "bridging the gap" piqued my interest in what Dolson said at the introductory press conference for Woodson.  Three items stuck out to me. 

1. Dolson and staff created a vision document for IU basketball's future prior to hiring Mike Woodson.  I would love to see that document.  I doubt that we are anywhere close to that vision today. 
2. Dolson commented that NBA people said that Woodson was an X's and O's guy.  Dolson discussed Woodson using a 1 in, 4 out offense.  In hindsight, I think some people blew smoke up Dolson's a$$.  
3. Dolson mentioned that when Woodson was coach of the Knicks that he had a partnership with Knick's executive Glen Grunwald that Woodson used to bounce ideas off of. Dolson was not going to have the time to dedicate to Woodson, so this is why Matta was hired.  I assume this is also why Randy Wittman was hired as a consultant. My guess is the GM role to lessen Woodson's workload is coming to IU soon. 

[Stuhoo 81,093]

4 minutes ago, realTomCrean said:

Stuhoo, you're on fire this morning. Question: Does the $6M or each player making $X also figure in personal deals with local companies? Ex: Leal Deal at Mother Bear's - I assume he gets a % off the top of each order or monthly. 

I would suspect that the $6 million is purely from the NIL collective. Side deals would be over and above that.

[Hornsby 2,042]

The previous posts about "bridging the gap" piqued my interest in what Dolson said at the introductory press conference for Woodson.  Three items stuck out to me. 

1. Dolson and staff created a vision document for IU basketball's future prior to hiring Mike Woodson.  I would love to see that document.  I doubt that we are anywhere close to that vision today. 
2. Dolson commented that NBA people said that Woodson was an X's and O's guy.  Dolson discussed Woodson using a 1 in, 4 out offense.  In hindsight, I think some people blew smoke up Dolson's a$$.  
3. Dolson mentioned that when Woodson was coach of the Knicks that he had a partnership with Knick's executive Glen Grunwald that Woodson used to bounce ideas off of. Dolson was not going to have the time to dedicate to Woodson, so this is why Matta was hired.  I assume this is also why Randy Wittman was hired as a consultant. My guess is the GM role to lessen Woodson's workload is coming to IU soon. 

What workload? He sounds like the lasiest recruiter in the big ten. No wonder Matta bolted this whole thing is just a joke. Whatever the bridge was they blew smoke up Dolson's behind. He got played by woodson.

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[Hovadipo 56,322]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

That would be the exact type thing that started this whole s*** show, listening to players and allowing them to hold us hostage. 

Lol right. Let's all reflect on how stupid we were in our college years. Now, imagine taking a group of 13 (or whatever) of us back then and putting an 8-figure employment decision in our hands.

[Chris007 44,115]

4 minutes ago, JF87 said:

The previous posts about "bridging the gap" piqued my interest in what Dolson said at the introductory press conference for Woodson.  Three items stuck out to me. 

1. Dolson and staff created a vision document for IU basketball's future prior to hiring Mike Woodson.  I would love to see that document.  I doubt that we are anywhere close to that vision today. 
2. Dolson commented that NBA people said that Woodson was an X's and O's guy.  Dolson discussed Woodson using a 1 in, 4 out offense.  In hindsight, I think some people blew smoke up Dolson's a$$.  
3. Dolson mentioned that when Woodson was coach of the Knicks that he had a partnership with Knick's executive Glen Grunwald that Woodson used to bounce ideas off of. Dolson was not going to have the time to dedicate to Woodson, so this is why Matta was hired.  I assume this is also why Randy Wittman was hired as a consultant. My guess is the GM role to lessen Woodson's workload is coming to IU soon. 

These were probably co-workers in NY trying to get rid of him. 

[Chris007 44,115]

1 minute ago, Hovadipo said:

Lol right. Let's all reflect on how stupid we were in our college years. Now, imagine taking a group of 13 (or whatever) of us back then and putting an 8-figure employment decision in our hands.

I had some great ideas. Usually not sober in a player's meeting but more around Friday night around 1AM

[Schreckbagger 623]

I'll get some pushback from many of you for this: Free-market determining the value of players is a reasonable, dare I say "good" thing.

And so many here that were pro NIL are now showing their colors.

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