Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Trish 11,551]

38 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I didn't realize that. I thought it was a carryover from last season. Wow, only 9 days. everyone gives themselves a pat on the back. 

This all could've been avoided Chris.. We knew this would occur. What a mistake this was. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,963]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

I thought the plan was supposed to be go move on from Crean (after he rebuilt the program to respectable again) and get us over that hump of inconsistency.  Unfortunately, the next guy crapped his pants.  And well, here we are.  

Yes, or the guy who hired CAM crapped his pants (in hindsight)

[HoosierHoopster 6,963]

38 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

I’m kind of proud of myself. I ain’t going to lie. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,341]

13 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I think they should be considered better than mediocre. FAU has had no success and those were really solid years. He's won 64% of his games at FAU in 6 years, the 6 years prior to him they'd won 34%. 

In those four years he went 66-56 overall and 34-32 in his conference. Not mediocre in the context of the school’s history, but not great overall. To answer ISP’s question, I don’t know that there’s a particular point in this year’s tournament that May could reach to get me on board after this season.

My position on May isn’t that he can’t work out. It’s just that he’s a fairly big risk, imo. I think he would still be a risk even if he makes another deep tournament run this year. IU basketball is in dangerous territory right now, so I don’t think we’re in a position to take such a risk. 

[AZ Hoosier 7,086]

34 minutes ago, Herotime said:

I tried to read the article, but a paywall popped up. 

same...

[Scotty R 2,127]

31 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

 IU hired a mid major coach who happened to become literally one of the two or three best coaches in modern college basketball history. It was a stroke of luck, honestly.

Anyway, Bob Knight coached at Army when college basketball was entirely different. 22 teams made the tournament his first year, and they were only up to 25 in his last season. He won 67% of his games and had fourth place, fourth place, and third place finishes in the NIT back when it meant something. Dusty May has had two good seasons. The other four were all very mediocre. I don’t want IU to take the risk at a time where we really aren’t in a position to take such a risk. 

I guess Duke got lucky hiring a former Army coach who was coming off a losing season in coach K. I see what you are saying but the chances of a top tier coach leaving their power 5 conference program is slim.

[HoosierHoopster 6,963]

^^^ The root of the problem as I see it is that IU may well not be in position to attract the top tier - type coaches at this point that many want -- the ones who aren't perceived as a risk. 

The other guys, May, Schertz, are risks. Probably can be considered pretty good risks, but still risks. But the U may just have to roll the dice (if / when this all happens). Schertz is getting some pub recently, here's another piece -- https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39512454/no-23-indiana-state-ranked-first-1979

And this guy looks like the guys I used to play against at the local gym, lol ...

[Adillac 953]

I think Schertz has such a record of winning that its less of a risk than May. The dude has Indiana State ranked and going to the tourney. Have you been to Terre Haute? It's not as cool as Florida. Dude wont like a thousand games in a row at whatever its called school in Tennessee. Hyperbole aside......May to me feels almost the same as Archie in terms of his proven-ness. Schertz has a diff vibe- just tons of winning and no connections or family ties that helped him get there either, in fact quite the opposite. 

Dusty May career:120-65 (.649)

Josh Schertz career: 390-105 (.788)

One has more than 3x more wins with a better winning percentage. 

Dusty May could be a great hire. If I'm choosing between two non-P5 coaches and these are my best candidates (probably), I'll take Schertz. Going to the FF is awesome but I just don't think winning 5-6 games in a row trumps winning 270 more games. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,341]

8 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

I guess Duke got lucky hiring a former Army coach who was coming off a losing season in coach K. I see what you are saying but the chances of a top tier coach leaving their power 5 conference program is slim.

I mean, Duke got lucky too. How many mid-major turn into a Bob Knight or a Mike Krzyzewski, and how many don’t succeed at the major level? Those two are at the very high end of the exception. I doubt even the most optimistic of people ever imagined you’d get 18 final fours and 8 titles out of two coaches from Army.   

You’ll have to incentivize a good coach to leave their power conference job to come to IU. Throw around the kind of money IU allegedly offered Brad Stevens and your chances probably get a lot better. 

[SamIam 646]

The damage Archie Miller did to this fanbase is insane, anyone who hasn't had a full career yet is DQ'ed. With some coaches there's a question of whether it was more them or the program. This is the case for Butler coaches, Dayton coaches, Xavier coaches etc. When a program comes out of nowhere its pretty easy to tell who's responsible, i.e. Gregg Marshall. 

But come on, by the standards on this board we won't be happy with literally any hire. Tommy Lloyd had no experience. T.J. Otz was 12-15 at UNLV before his run with Iowa State. Dan Hurley made the tourney only 2/6 years at Rhode Island. Shaka Smart/Rick Barnes got canned. I mean come on, we can find a reason to disqualify anyone. I get this hire feels important but we are in the same spot as literally any school faced with the decision to fire their coach. The top schools right now didn't try to disqualify their guys, they just asked if they can coach. 

[ISP 928]

3 minutes ago, Adillac said:

I think Schertz has such a record of winning that its less of a risk than May. The dude has Indiana State ranked and going to the tourney. Have you been to Terre Haute? It's not as cool as Florida. Dude wont like a thousand games in a row at whatever its called school in Tennessee. Hyperbole aside......May to me feels almost the same as Archie in terms of his proven-ness. Schertz has a diff vibe- just tons of winning and no connections or family ties that helped him get there either, in fact quite the opposite. 

Dusty May career:120-65 (.649)

Josh Schertz career: 390-105 (.788)

One has more than 3x more wins with a better winning percentage. 

Dusty May could be a great hire. If I'm choosing between two non-P5 coaches and these are my best candidates (probably), I'll take Schertz. Going to the FF is awesome but I just don't think winning 5-6 games in a row trumps winning 270 more games. 

They will both likely be nabbed up this off season.

[SamIam 646]

2 minutes ago, Adillac said:

Dusty May career:120-65 (.649)

Josh Schertz career: 390-105 (.788)

For the record I love both these guys but you can't ding Dusty for lacking P5 or high major experience and then turn around and include Schertz's time in D2. He's .596 in D1. 

[Adillac 953]

3 minutes ago, SamIam said:

The damage Archie Miller did to this fanbase is insane, anyone who hasn't had a full career yet is DQ'ed. With some coaches there's a question of whether it was more them or the program. This is the case for Butler coaches, Dayton coaches, Xavier coaches etc. When a program comes out of nowhere its pretty easy to tell who's responsible, i.e. Gregg Marshall. 

But come on, by the standards on this board we won't be happy with literally any hire. Tommy Lloyd had no experience. T.J. Otz was 12-15 at UNLV before his run with Iowa State. Dan Hurley made the tourney only 2/6 years at Rhode Island. Shaka Smart/Rick Barnes got canned. I mean come on, we can find a reason to disqualify anyone. I get this hire feels important but we are in the same spot as literally any school faced with the decision to fire their coach. The top schools right now didn't try to disqualify their guys, they just asked if they can coach. 

good points....

[Unexpectedflash 1,068]

10 minutes ago, Adillac said:

I think Schertz has such a record of winning that its less of a risk than May. The dude has Indiana State ranked and going to the tourney. Have you been to Terre Haute? It's not as cool as Florida. Dude wont like a thousand games in a row at whatever its called school in Tennessee. Hyperbole aside......May to me feels almost the same as Archie in terms of his proven-ness. Schertz has a diff vibe- just tons of winning and no connections or family ties that helped him get there either, in fact quite the opposite. 

Dusty May career:120-65 (.649)

Josh Schertz career: 390-105 (.788)

One has more than 3x more wins with a better winning percentage. 

Dusty May could be a great hire. If I'm choosing between two non-P5 coaches and these are my best candidates (probably), I'll take Schertz. Going to the FF is awesome but I just don't think winning 5-6 games in a row trumps winning 270 more games. 

I agree with this. Prolonged regular season success is more important to me than one tourney run. Doing it at two schools also helps and it only took him two years for ISU to get back. I’ve seen FAU come out flat very often this year which has me hesitant. The final four is awesome but if he loses to Memphis in the second round are we still having this conversation. Plus Johnell Davis is an all American in a mid major conference and has taken over games at the end. How much of that is good coaching and how much of that is having a player that is just better than everyone else? That i can’t answer.

[Adillac 953]

1 minute ago, SamIam said:

For the record I love both these guys but you can't ding Dusty for lacking P5 or high major experience and then turn around and include Schertz's time in D2. He's .596 in D1. 

I'm not dinging May. Schertz has won a ton more basketball games. That's a plus for him as it should be. 

[str8baller 5,224]

39 minutes ago, JF87 said:

You do realize that Bob Knight was 11-13 his last year at Army.  IU wanted a coach whose teams played good defense and with discipline so they hired Bob Knight.  You should hire for fit, not always the record.  Dusty (like Shertz) has built a program from the ground up.  Archie was not a good fit for IU.  He was never comfortable at IU.  Don't pass on a mid-major coach because Archie was a bad fit. 

The Knight thing isn’t completely accurate as framed.  
 

First, Army has never been to the NCAA tourney. They received one bid in over a hundred years and it was turned down by Knight to go to the NIT (according to Feinstein…I didn’t know this until just looking it up). Speaking of the NIT, Army has been 8x total with Knight accounting for half those trips.  
 

Knight was a known up and coming star coach. He was offered the Wisconsin job but turned it down.  
 

Getting a great coach is always some part luck because so few exist, but Knight didn’t just come out of nowhere.  He was likely one of the best young candidates in the country at the time. 

[str8baller 5,224]

16 minutes ago, SamIam said:

Tommy Lloyd had no experience.

I wouldn’t call top assistant to one of the most successful coaches in America “No experience.”  People with similar backgrounds when hired to big jobs include Tom Izzo, Roy Williams, and Mark Few himself.   
 

Everything is a risk but there are ways to mitigate that risk that isn’t just grasping at straws. 

[Herotime 753]

1 hour ago, ISP said:

Sorry, try this link https://archive.is/kKf2B

Thanks, that worked! I really liked what I read, especially how much of a student of the game May is. And the defensive stats— “The Owls rank 330th in average height, per KenPom, but they’re 25th in defensive rebounding rate. The Owls also limit 3s and have the 14th-best two-point defense in college basketball.” 

I could root for him, for sure.

[Scotty R 2,127]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

^^^ The root of the problem as I see it is that IU may well not be in position to attract the top tier - type coaches at this point that many want -- the ones who aren't perceived as a risk. 

The other guys, May, Schertz, are risks. Probably can be considered pretty good risks, but still risks. But the U may just have to roll the dice (if / when this all happens). Schertz is getting some pub recently, here's another piece -- https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39512454/no-23-indiana-state-ranked-first-1979

And this guy looks like the guys I used to play against at the local gym, lol ...

It isn't just Indiana but the college landscape in general. You just don't see many power 5 conference coaches leaving to take another job. Why didn't Duke, UNC, Villanova or Syracuse go the route of the experience power 5 conference coach.

[Chris007 44,034]

1 hour ago, Adillac said:

I'm not dinging May. Schertz has won a ton more basketball games. That's a plus for him as it should be. 

But he’s won a ton more at Division 2. All of Dusty’s has come from D 1.