IUBB vs Auburn (Atlanta, GA) | 12/9/2023 @ 2:00pm on ESPN2

[JSHoosier 22,240]

I didn't expect a win, but man at least look like you belong on the floor. Don't pack it in when you get punched in the mouth.

[Uspshoosier 54,570]

6 minutes ago, kreigh8 said:

I’ll bite: how does Kansas prepare differently that they are able to play near 40 minutes? Dickinson is closer to 30 than 20. Reneau and Ware not able to find that same kind of energy?

Self has coached college his whole life and understands that the best chance to win is riding your best players even if they are winded.   Woody comes from the NBA where you have to have a solid bench to be successful.    In college you don’t need a deep bench to be successful so you can get away with playing your starters heavy minutes.  With a flawed roster IUs best chance at winning would be playing your top players more instead of subbing then out at the same time.   

[Stuhoo 89,954]

21 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Self has coached college his whole life and understands that the best chance to win is riding your best players even if they are winded.   Woody comes from the NBA where you have to have a solid bench to be successful.    In college you don’t need a deep bench to be successful so you can get away with playing your starters heavy minutes.  With a flawed roster IUs best chance at winning would be playing your top players more instead of subbing then out at the same time.   

IU’s other path to their best chance is to have their starting point and best guard play.

[str8baller 7,643]

22 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Self has coached college his whole life and understands that the best chance to win is riding your best players even if they are winded.   Woody comes from the NBA where you have to have a solid bench to be successful.    In college you don’t need a deep bench to be successful so you can get away with playing your starters heavy minutes.  With a flawed roster IUs best chance at winning would be playing your top players more instead of subbing then out at the same time.   

Funny thing is this is pretty well known in the NBA, too. Guys like Thibedeu play short benches and get his players to play hard in the regular season. He has a lot of success. Then in the playoffs when everybody shortens their bench and players naturally play harder, his style becomes less effective.  
 

A lot of NBA coaches sub patterns run like train schedules (at least through the first 3 quarters) so they can manage minutes for 100-ish games. You see that with Woody.  At the 12min mark it’s time to start rotating in 3 or more subs. He then shows more flexibility in the second half. 

[Scotty R 3,768]

34 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Self has coached college his whole life and understands that the best chance to win is riding your best players even if they are winded.   Woody comes from the NBA where you have to have a solid bench to be successful.    In college you don’t need a deep bench to be successful so you can get away with playing your starters heavy minutes.  With a flawed roster IUs best chance at winning would be playing your top players more instead of subbing then out at the same time.   

Woodson did that last year

[Uspshoosier 54,570]

6 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

IU’s other path to their best chance is to have their starting point and best guard play.

Absolutely he gives IU the best chance to win.   However X isn’t stopping a 42-12 run just by being back.    If X is healthy in my opinion he should play as close to 40 min as possible.   With X back maybe they lose by 15 instead of 28. Just my opinion 

[Uspshoosier 54,570]

1 minute ago, Scotty R said:

Woodson did that last year

He didn’t yesterday 

[Scotty R 3,768]

Just now, Uspshoosier said:

He didn’t yesterday 

Both years once big ten season started he has shortened the bench. I think he uses the non conference to see what his best options are.  I am not in favor of this but I don't have a say in it.

[str8baller 7,643]

2 hours ago, Home Jersey said:

Beat Kansas and all is well in the world.

Maybe. I’d love to beat them under any circumstance. But I’ve seen enough over the last 2.5 years to know we have real flaws that repeatedly crop up. If we don’t fix those, we’re going to keep getting the same—largely unsatisfactory—results we have up to this point.  
 

With that said, I thought we were making some progress with the offensive rebounding issue up until yesterday. So it’s not unheard of we fix some of the other glaring issues. Auburn is pretty relentless on the offensive glass, so maybe it was just asking too much that we’d continue our progress against them. 

[Uspshoosier 54,570]

22 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Both years once big ten season started he has shortened the bench. I think he uses the non conference to see what his best options are.  I am not in favor of this but I don't have a say in it.

Yeah doing that against St Mary’s of the woods, School of the Blind, Rose Hulman is one thing but doing that in a marquee tournament quality matchup is another.   Especially when your best win to date  is a road win against a non tournament team and your next  best win is against Harvard.   
  Playing with fire in my opinion 

they are not a tournament team as of now.  

[Stuhoo 89,954]

22 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Absolutely he gives IU the best chance to win.   However X isn’t stopping a 42-12 run just by being back.    If X is healthy in my opinion he should play as close to 40 min as possible.   With X back maybe they lose by 15 instead of 28. Just my opinion 

Sure; bad games will still happen.

But while X is also inconsistent, he adds elements that the other guards don’t have, and having him for 30+ minutes does a lot for depth and prevents us from playing guys like Leal at all, and Gunn when he’s terrible.

[Uspshoosier 54,570]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

Sure; bad games will still happen.

But while X is also inconsistent, he adds elements that the other guards don’t have, and having him for 30+ minutes does a lot for depth and prevents us from playing guys like Leal at all, and Gunn when he’s terrible.

Also goes back to roster construction The staff relied on a player that was coming off an injury where he only played 9 games the year before and he is  asked and needed to play at a level he played before his injury and play 30 + minutes just to be competitive.  That’s a lot to put on a player even if he is a 6th year Senior 

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,583]

If I had this team, assuming X is healthy, and based on what I’ve seen.

X, Gallo, Mgbako, Reneau, Ware.

Cupps, Walker, Banks. As only backups.

Sparks would not play. Leal probably doesn’t play. Gunn only sees minutes if (Cupps, Gallo, X) are bad which is quite likely. I’d instruct Gunn to play his normal defense and on shoot layups or sets shots. Nothing off the dribble.

Gallo can’t shoot. Ceiling limited. Cupps is ok. X is as sporadic as they come. Play Ware, Reneau 35 mins. Banks and Walker can get time. I’d even be willing to slide them to the 2 because our guards don’t offer enough.


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[Dave from Dayton 4,073]

33 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Yeah doing that against St Mary’s of the woods, School of the Blind, Rose Hulman is one thing but doing that in a marquee tournament quality matchup is another.   Especially when your best win to date a road win against a non tournament team and your next  best win is against Harvard.   
  Playing with fire in my opinion 

they are not a tournament team as of now.  

They are 2 - 0 in the Big Ten.  They are 7 - 2 overall.  Lost to #5 and might lose to #2.  

I would say that the jury is still out.  They have grown by leaps and bounds.  They still have a long road in front of them.  

Why they stopped defending and Ware was backing down from their bigs is going to take a lot of scrutiny.  Hopefully, we will learn a lot from this terrible beating.  

Right now, I contend that they are on the cusp of getting in to the NCAAT.  They have shown promise.  But playing last night with some swallowing of whistles at critical times in the first half...and that platooning crap...gotta learn how to play through it or change it.  That is on Coach Woodson and his staff.  If Woodson won't throw that chair, then I may have to.

The Kansas game at home will be a much better showing.  But not a win.  

[Rico 3,587]

I really don't know what I expected from the team this year.  But I sure as hell didn't expect yesterday.

[Uspshoosier 54,570]

3 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

They are 2 - 0 in the Big Ten.  They are 7 - 2 overall.  Lost to #5 and #2.  

I would say that the jury is still out. 

#5 and #2? Which ranking is that.  
 

Auburn just lost to App St so not sure any ranking should have them #5.    You are correct jury is still out but not all 7-2 records are the same.    None of those 7 wins are against a team currently projected in the field.  To make the tourney you have to beat tournament quality teams.   Signs have been there all year as to where this season was heading.  Lucky for IU they will have more opportunities to not get smashed by 20 + points when they play tournament quality teams 

[Stuhoo 89,954]

8 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Also goes back to roster construction The staff relied on a player that was coming off an injury where he only played 9 games the year before and he is  asked and needed to play at a level he played before his injury and play 30 + minutes just to be competitive.  That’s a lot to put on a player even if he is a 6th year Senior 

Based on @Demo’s assessment I’m also thinking that we were expecting a real role for Jakai Newton.

Having two of our top four guards out sucks.

[Golfman25 6,827]

1 hour ago, Uspshoosier said:

Self has coached college his whole life and understands that the best chance to win is riding your best players even if they are winded.   Woody comes from the NBA where you have to have a solid bench to be successful.    In college you don’t need a deep bench to be successful so you can get away with playing your starters heavy minutes.  With a flawed roster IUs best chance at winning would be playing your top players more instead of subbing then out at the same time.   

Of course last year when he was playing guys close to 40 he was asked about it.  His answer was along the lines that they are young kids and can handle it.  
 

I just wonder if there was flu involved as several players where questionable.

[BGleas 9,031]

1 hour ago, kreigh8 said:

I’ll bite: how does Kansas prepare differently that they are able to play near 40 minutes? Dickinson is closer to 30 than 20. Reneau and Ware not able to find that same kind of energy?

In fairness, Ware is averaging 30mpg and Reneau is at 28mpg (also important to note he's in foul trouble sometimes so that impacts his minutes at times). 

[Dave from Dayton 4,073]

6 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

#5 and #2? Which ranking is that.  
 

Auburn just lost to App St so not sure any ranking should have them #5.    You are correct jury is still out but not all 7-2 records are the same.    None of those 7 wins are against a team currently projected in the field.  To make the tourney you have to beat tournament quality teams.   Signs have been there all year as to where this season was heading.  Lucky for IU they will have more opportunities to not get smashed by 20 + points when they play tournament quality teams 

Yeah, I meant to put that this coming weekend they might just lose to #2 Kansas.  

I still do not think that the signs say they won't make the NCAAT.  Right now, probably not.  But right now is not the criteria.  I think they will learn to win.  

I thought that the Auburn game would be a tell.  But, Ware got hammered relentlessly and backed down.  IU got sloppy.  Gave up on defense.  And that platooning did not help.

Why Coach Woodson let that go I haven't a clue.

But, because of the last 9 games...does not to me indicate that they are out of the NCAAT.  Too much is yet to be written.