* Empire Classic * Indiana vs. UCONN Sunday 11/19/2023 1 pm ESPN @MSG

[DChoosier 9,210]

6 hours ago, Redleader said:

He’s the worst team defensive player I have seen.  He looks to be a huge recruiting miss. Stiff, unathletic, can’t handle the ball.  But the defense is inexcusable.

Stiff is a good description.
His movements/flow look freshman year Todd Lindeman stiff on defense, getting into his shooting motion, going for boards and loose balls etc. You can tell he is a good shooter from his FT stroke but he looks stiff/uncomfortable when he is in the process of getting into position to shoot and starting the shooting motion in the open court. Surely that wasn’t the case for him in HS ???

[BGleas 8,133]

2 hours ago, Chris007 said:

X, Trey, Cupps, and Gunn getting 3 rebounds, and 3 assists combined is not good. We're not getting anything from our guards right now. 

They need to be better, completely agree. But, I'd also argue a bit that the system isn't really set up for them to do much currently. 

The lane is completely clogged. Our most used offense right now is to drop it to a big on the block and stand around while they make a move. 

There's not much space right now and we're running almost everything through 2 bigs in the paint. 

They definitely need to do much, much better on the defensive glass at minimum. 

[Uspshoosier 49,785]

Trey has to shoot this shot instead of driving into 5 UConn players especially a shot blocker.   Take what the defense gives you.  

[SamIam 702]

Game observations:

Gunn looked like an animal on defense. Someone told him to stop jumping so wildly on his 3's and he overcorrected, he's still just thinking too much. They are still running a lot for him which tells me that maybe he is making those in practice??? I've given up on him ever being a good shooter but at this point I would just like to see one go in. 

Reneau showed why Woodson can't take him out. Still, he needs to pass better. Watch his and-1 at the end of the 1st and there are literally 4 UConn players within 3 feet, have to be able to kick. I'm not sure Reneau deserved any of his fouls, he is gonna get killed for fouling out in this one but truly I don't know what he was supposed to do. I didn't think the reffing was lopsided, it was just inconsistent. Ware and Clingan could kill each other with no call but MR couldn't breath on a guy. Not his fault. 

Hated Woodson's comments on Ware. Yes, he gave up at the end but so did everyone. But to focus your postgame comments on Ware not playing in the post? When he was the only one providing ANY spacing? It shows the offensive philosophy that Woodson is stubbornly clinging to. Ware needs to take and make those top of the key threes if we want Reneau to be able to work in the post. 

X is getting killed by the fans but this team needs him. Yes he complains, yes he makes mistakes. We need that. He's the vocal and emotional center of the team. He stupidly took that 3rd foul, he has to be better than that but he is the tip of the spear on defense so that will happen sometimes. He will get into the swing and foul less. When he was in the game I loved how he played through the PnR.

Trey was Trey. Did a valiant job trying to keep us in it without X. 

Cupps looked a little lost but that is to be expected. I have been saying this for a while but I don't think he will ever be a good shooter. His form is just too screwed up, the ball spins laterally off of his hand. When he is set in catch and shoot opportunities I expect he will be fine but I don't have much confidence that he will ever have a consistent jumper off of the bounce. Still, he is more than just his jumpshot. 

Sparks got called for everything he tried to do. He has little skill but he is light of his feet for his size, I'm happy to have him as a bench big.

Banks still needs to get more run, hopefully at the four, I know reports were that he was working on his handle in the offseason, and that's good, but someone needs to tell him that we don't need to see it every time the ball comes to him. Move the ball! Loved that he took an open rhythm 3.  

Mgbako....he got burned on back cuts, and was occasionally flat footed. But this was BY FAR his best defensive game. Continue on this trajectory and I think he will be less of a negative on that end. His offense.....hasn't been good. It's pretty clear that he is slow. I don't think he will ever be the type to get his own shot at the 3. I'm beating a dead horse but I still think he would be quick enough to get it at the 4. This team will never be a good 3pt shooting team. But Mgbako just needs to see a couple go down and that will do so much for us. 

Walker should not be getting minutes. He stops the ball on offense and tries to iso even though he is one of the worst looking shooters I have ever seen. He is getting beat to rebounds constantly. He extends the defense out past the three point line needlessly. It's just all bad and he has done nothing to continue to earn these minutes. 

Rebounding is a problem. Some of it is effort but most of it is the high volume of 3's we are giving up. These are long rebounds and we are a MUCH slower team than those that we have played. It's counterintuitive but I think playing smaller would help us with this. Reneau/Mgbako are getting killed by quicker guys at their position and Ware is just fighting for his life but he isn't strong enough.

I would like to see the same starters but with less Sparks minutes and Ware and Reneau rotating at the 5 with the second unit. I want to see them go small with Banks/Mgbako at the 4, Gunn at 2/3 and throw in Leal for some spot minutes at Guard. 

It might not seem like it but I was actually encouraged by this game. They hung in there and showed defensive growth. But that was a top 5 team. It remains to be seen if they can get up for other games, especially since LVille looked really competitive yesterday. 

[JSHoosier 21,467]

17 minutes ago, SamIam said:

Game observations:

Gunn looked like an animal on defense. Someone told him to stop jumping so wildly on his 3's and he overcorrected, he's still just thinking too much. They are still running a lot for him which tells me that maybe he is making those in practice??? I've given up on him ever being a good shooter but at this point I would just like to see one go in. 

Reneau showed why Woodson can't take him out. Still, he needs to pass better. Watch his and-1 at the end of the 1st and there are literally 4 UConn players within 3 feet, have to be able to kick. I'm not sure Reneau deserved any of his fouls, he is gonna get killed for fouling out in this one but truly I don't know what he was supposed to do. I didn't think the reffing was lopsided, it was just inconsistent. Ware and Clingan could kill each other with no call but MR couldn't breath on a guy. Not his fault. 

Hated Woodson's comments on Ware. Yes, he gave up at the end but so did everyone. But to focus your postgame comments on Ware not playing in the post? When he was the only one providing ANY spacing? It shows the offensive philosophy that Woodson is stubbornly clinging to. Ware needs to take and make those top of the key threes if we want Reneau to be able to work in the post. 

X is getting killed by the fans but this team needs him. Yes he complains, yes he makes mistakes. We need that. He's the vocal and emotional center of the team. He stupidly took that 3rd foul, he has to be better than that but he is the tip of the spear on defense so that will happen sometimes. He will get into the swing and foul less. When he was in the game I loved how he played through the PnR.

Trey was Trey. Did a valiant job trying to keep us in it without X. 

Cupps looked a little lost but that is to be expected. I have been saying this for a while but I don't think he will ever be a good shooter. His form is just too screwed up, the ball spins laterally off of his hand. When he is set in catch and shoot opportunities I expect he will be fine but I don't have much confidence that he will ever have a consistent jumper off of the bounce. Still, he is more than just his jumpshot. 

Sparks got called for everything he tried to do. He has little skill but he is light of his feet for his size, I'm happy to have him as a bench big.

Banks still needs to get more run, hopefully at the four, I know reports were that he was working on his handle in the offseason, and that's good, but someone needs to tell him that we don't need to see it every time the ball comes to him. Move the ball! Loved that he took an open rhythm 3.  

Mgbako....he got burned on back cuts, and was occasionally flat footed. But this was BY FAR his best defensive game. Continue on this trajectory and I think he will be less of a negative on that end. His offense.....hasn't been good. It's pretty clear that he is slow. I don't think he will ever be the type to get his own shot at the 3. I'm beating a dead horse but I still think he would be quick enough to get it at the 4. This team will never be a good 3pt shooting team. But Mgbako just needs to see a couple go down and that will do so much for us. 

Walker should not be getting minutes. He stops the ball on offense and tries to iso even though he is one of the worst looking shooters I have ever seen. He is getting beat to rebounds constantly. He extends the defense out past the three point line needlessly. It's just all bad and he has done nothing to continue to earn these minutes. 

Rebounding is a problem. Some of it is effort but most of it is the high volume of 3's we are giving up. These are long rebounds and we are a MUCH slower team than those that we have played. It's counterintuitive but I think playing smaller would help us with this. Reneau/Mgbako are getting killed by quicker guys at their position and Ware is just fighting for his life but he isn't strong enough.

I would like to see the same starters but with less Sparks minutes and Ware and Reneau rotating at the 5 with the second unit. I want to see them go small with Banks/Mgbako at the 4, Gunn at 2/3 and throw in Leal for some spot minutes at Guard. 

It might not seem like it but I was actually encouraged by this game. They hung in there and showed defensive growth. But that was a top 5 team. It remains to be seen if they can get up for other games, especially since LVille looked really competitive yesterday. 

Reneau needs to pass better/more, do a better job of feeling the double team and kicking out.  The double comes then someone has to be open.

[Uspshoosier 49,785]

17 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I mentioned CJ last week and got lit up on here. Now people are coming around slowly. He and MM are so important. They are scorers. Trey, Cupps etc. don’t look to score

You make some great points throughout the whole post but these first 2 sentences are probably a reason your posting style rubs problem the wrong way. You could of left those out and still made a great point about  CJ and MM being important and Trey and Cupps not looking to score 

[Uspshoosier 49,785]

X has to let that fly.  He turned it over seconds later

[Hovadipo 59,074]

5 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

X has to let that fly.  He turned it over seconds later

For all of Jay's idiocy yesterday, he was calling for this the entire first half. I think he gave up after 20 minutes of driving lol.

[Uspshoosier 49,785]

Ware has to finish this play with a dunk.  Instead he doesn’t keep the ball high and brings it down and gives them time to recover and foul him.    

[Uspshoosier 49,785]

Just now, Hovadipo said:

For all of Jay's idiocy yesterday, he was calling for this the entire first half. I think he gave up after 20 minutes lol.

I’m  watching on mute so if I’m pointing out things they pointed out during the broadcast my bad.    A lot of missed opportunities for this team in this game so far.   

[Uspshoosier 49,785]

12:30 mark in second half is where this became a game to a blow out.   That play broke IU.   Only down 7 and have a great defensive stop (CJ with great D) have ball with a chance to cut lead and get stripped and they get a fluke basket with an and 1.     Brutal 

[Uspshoosier 49,785]

1 minute ago, Uspshoosier said:

12:30 mark in second half is where this became a game to a blow out.   That play broke IU.   Only down 7 and have a great defensive stop (CJ with great D) have ball with a chance to cut lead and get stripped and they get a fluke basket with an and 1.     Brutal 

Even worse don’t block out and the score.   4 pt play.   Ouch.    

[JSHoosier 21,467]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

Fair but when you get lit up, called nuts, off my rocker etc. seems it was worth pointing out that the same guys who said that, are now calling for him to start haha and I wouldn’t even go that far. 

I am wrong all the time and have zero issues admitting it. I think that is what gets me. 

I was way off on Walker. Thought he was going to be a positive. Guy is not playable. 

I didn't like getting Walker, I was pretty vocal on my thoughts.  I liked getting Sparks but he doesn't look like he's suited for this level.

[Uspshoosier 49,785]

You can see the difference between a final 4 caliber team and a borderline tourney team.   IUs margin of error is way smaller.  UConn didn’t even play that good and was without Castle.   Still this was only a 10 point game with 7:22 to go.   

[JSHoosier 21,467]

Reneau really helped keep us in it but we do need more boards from him.

[Hoosier987 1,585]

23 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I was way off on Walker. Thought he was going to be a positive. Guy is not playable. 

It’s all good. I remember you and a couple of other being a very vocal supporter of it. He just wasn’t a fit from day 1. It happens but at this point his minutes need to be very limited.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 87,511]

X again listed as questionable on the Big Ten availability report.

[Hoosier987 1,585]

24 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I didn't like getting Walker, I was pretty vocal on my thoughts.  I liked getting Sparks but he doesn't look like he's suited for this level.

Agreed. I was never for the Walker transfer and made that known…however I was for Sparks. At this point he’s got a ways to go…obviously big difference from what he’s seen prior (my understanding is that he was an all conference player) however, I do think he should be in the rotation unlike Walker. 

[Stuhoo 85,017]

15 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

You can see the difference between a final 4 caliber team and a borderline tourney team.   IUs margin of error is way smaller.  UConn didn’t even play that good and was without Castle.   Still this was only a 10 point game with 7:22 to go.   

With a little over 9:00 left and us down 7, Gunn stripped a ball on defense, X recovered it, and started to go into transition. But X got tapped from behind, coughed it up, and we fouled them on a make for a nine point lead. Then they offensive rebounded the free throw and put it back in for an 11 point lead. From numbers on the break to make it 5 to down 11 in fifteen seconds of clock time!

So as bad as people think this was, we played them fairly evenly for 30 minutes. There is talent and hope with this IU team. 

btw; contrast this to IU soccer; no matter how well the opponent plays, in November and December our opponents go home sad. The vibe is different and there's a reason - both teams have a hunch that one of the teams will find a way. Maybe with the talent we have at some point this year that'll be us.

[JSHoosier 21,467]

9 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Agreed. I was never for the Walker transfer and made that known…however I was for Sparks. At this point he’s got a ways to go…obviously big difference from what he’s seen prior (my understanding is that he was an all conference player) however, I do think he should be in the rotation unlike Walker. 

I think Sparks's time needs limited though.  I'd rotate Ware and Reneau at the 5 and put Mgbako at the 4 but then we'd need someone to put at the 3 and depth is thin in the backcourt.