IUBB vs Army - Sunday, 11.12.23 @ 7:00 on BTN

[str8baller]

4 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

I don't think we're going to be taking a lot of 3s with Woodson as coach; his comments have sort been take them if they come, he doesn't discourage them but it's not an emphasis either.

Oddly there isn’t much in his NBA tenure that would point to this. He’s coached teams that led the league in attempts and some near the bottom. He’s also coached defenses that were at both end of the rankings in attempts.  
 

Similarly, he seemed to encourage TJD to shoot them. But the rest of Woodys time here has been a story of not getting 3’s on offense and giving them up at the other end.  
 

I guess you could maybe just say he doesn’t seem to focus on it one way or the other. I don’t know what to make of that. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

When we had five suspended against Northwestern a year and a half ago, Leal played 34 minutes.

1-5 shooting, 1-4 from three. Only one turnover.

So I guess we are going to judge him just off that one game? Makes sense. I mean it isn't like we played Parker Stewart and Miller Kopp at 2 and 3 or anything.

[str8baller]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

Only one I feel strongly about is the MM playing the 4 and I do think over Malik. The ball sticks too much with Malik. He clogs the lane for Ware

Malik led the team in assists last night with 5/16 assists and XJ had 5 more. He’s pretty good passer, especially from the high post to low post/cutters…which is where I predicted he’d play most the year.  I think he’ll continue to produce if we get him the ball there. 
 

Spacing is a mess in general. Some of that is playing two bigs. But a lot of people in the off-season said Ware would be fine with MR  because he could play on the outside. So far he seems to like to be in the post like Reneau. Not ideal. 

2 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

He said it was just some lack of effort which is still a problem but not all the scheme issues so many are saying.

 

I agree it’s hard to blame schemes when you can barely even tell what’s going on with the players playing so badly. But I don’t think the general complaint is limited to this specific game. Last year any team that could go smaller and shoot threes ran us off the court.  
 

It was so bad that by tourney time, it was fairly obvious we’d win the first game and likely lose to Miami. We could stomp on purdue but had little chance to beat Iowa and Penn State.  That’s a pattern. Some of it can be blamed on personnel but you have to be able to scheme around the personnel you want on the court a little bit. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

2 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

He isn’t quick enough to play D against better teams. It remains to be seen if even Cupps can. We all laughed at Braden Smith on D… Cupps isn’t that different. Better, I think so but not confident in that. He gave away the ball on some really lazy passes last night too. 
 

if Leal was any part of the answer, you really think a staff of Hulls, Calbert, Walsh etc all couldn’t see that and get through to Woody? That is one of the biggest things for me when I see all these suggestions from fans. It is always Woody this, Woody that. This staff is pretty damn loaded with basketball minds. They see these guys every day. 
 

my overall thoughts - 

I do think a LOT of this is Woody trying guys out against teams he believes we can win come crunch time. Maybe pushed that little too close to the limit but they did win. He wouldn’t play these rotations and minutes against better teams. 
 

Only one I feel strongly about is the MM playing the 4 and I do think over Malik. The ball sticks too much with Malik. He clogs the lane for Ware. He is always late on D, etc. he should be better on D than MM being a whole year in the system but really is about the same. MM would allow for faster transition play, more spacing, 3 Pt attempts etc. and make Ware more effective. Malik is a 5. At minimum, you have to try it and they haven’t. Trey is also a 3 and not a 2.  CJ may play better too if he was in at the 2/3 with some starters. It solves so many things. I hope those great minds on the staff feel the same. 
 

Lastly, Woody did not say what Goodman and even Rabby tweeted. He said we didn’t play that bad on D with only giving up 64. He is right. They rained 3s, which make for long rebounds etc. and hit at good percent. We turned ball over 17 times and still only have up 64. Could by way better but he is right. He then ripped them for plenty.  Ant Wright who many follow said the same. He expected to see very bad D when he watched back but didn’t. He said it was just some lack of effort which is still a problem but not all the scheme issues so many are saying.

Rotation will shorten, change or 2 made and they will play up to competition with increased effort. 

I'm going to assume Cupps is quick enough. FGCU had a very good and very quick point guard and he did just fine staying in front of him. No different than Aaron Craft. Active hands, quick feet, hustle and IQ.

[kreigh8]

3 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

So I guess we are going to judge him just off that one game? Makes sense. I mean it isn't like we played Parker Stewart and Miller Kopp at 2 and 3 or anything.

Think he's just illustrating by that singular game that he doesn't provide the offense that one might hope for. Less concerned about him on offense but on defense with a team that's already struggling to defend the perimeter. Ball might not stick when he's in, but I'm not sure who he's going to defend and with this team over-helping, that might become even more exaggerated when he's on the floor

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 minute ago, kreigh8 said:

Think he's just illustrating by that singular game that he doesn't provide the offense that one might hope for. Less concerned about him on offense but on defense with a team that's already struggling to defend the perimeter. Ball might not stick when he's in, but I'm not sure who he's going to defend and with this team over-helping, that might become even more exaggerated when he's on the floor

The over helping is a scheme problem. Not an athleticism problem. Leal and guard another teams 2 and 3. He's probably strong enough to guard some teams 4s with how small college ball gets played at times(except by Indiana).

[Stuhoo]

11 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

So I guess we are going to judge him just off that one game? Makes sense. I mean it isn't like we played Parker Stewart and Miller Kopp at 2 and 3 or anything.

Not on topic, but I'd kill to get last year's version of Miller Kopp on this year's team.

Miller; if you're reading this, the Hoosier fan base misses you! so feel free to create an anonymous account and like this post to show that you're watching from afar!     ;)

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Not on topic, but I'd kill to get last year's version of Miller Kopp on this year's team.

Miller; if you're reading this, the Hoosier fan base misses you! so feel free to create an anonymous account and like this post to show that you're watching from afar!     ;)

Eh. He had his times. Really wish Woody would have played him at the 4 along with TJD. I wouldn't even mind paying Galloway at the 4 for short stretches. Hell we won a B1G title playing Troy Williams and Colin Hartman at the 4.

[CSP]

6 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Not on topic, but I'd kill to get last year's version of Miller Kopp on this year's team.

Miller; if you're reading this, the Hoosier fan base misses you! so feel free to create an anonymous account and like this post to show that you're watching from afar!     ;)

Did more than people realize. 

[CSP]

Just now, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Eh. He had his times. Really wish Woody would have played him at the 4 along with TJD. I wouldn't even mind paying Galloway at the 4 for short stretches. Hell we won a B1G title playing Troy Williams and Colin Hartman at the 4.

He would have played him at the 4 plenty had XJ not gotten hurt. He showed that in the BTT 2 years ago. Kopp guarded Coleman for a time. 

And, gulp, can't believe I'm doing this....... I agree with you, I would have no issue with TG at the 4. And I also believe Leal needs to get a look. 

[KillerMopp]

26 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Not on topic, but I'd kill to get last year's version of Miller Kopp on this year's team.

Miller; if you're reading this, the Hoosier fan base misses you! so feel free to create an anonymous account and like this post to show that you're watching from afar!     ;)

miss yew

[Golfman25]

18 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

Right, but last night in particular was UGLY while playing an atrocious team. Also, it's not just one or two things, it appears that everything is wrong (defense, shooting, depth, intensity.) That along with our highly touted 5 star recruit looking timid and lost all lends itself to panic.

On the positive side, there is clearly talent, the capacity to be competitive is there. XJ, Mbako, Ware, Reneau, Cupps are all good players.They CAN do better, so that lends some hope. If they are the right pieces that will fit together is another question. 

I am disappointed that the floor & ceiling on this team both appear lower then I expected. 

 

Panic?  After 2 games.  Come on man.  So here need perspective.  So our "highly touted 5 star recruit" has only played 2 more NCAA games than me.  Patience grasshoppers.  Patience.  

 

(And yes, we may get run out of the gym by UConn.  But the world still isn't ending)

[str8baller]

5 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Patience grasshoppers.  Patience.  

Out of all our faults, I don’t think IU fans lack patience.   
 

 

 

(btw, if you can hit and/or defend the 3-ball at a high Div 1 level, I’m very happy to hear about your 4 years of eligibility)

[Stuhoo]

@KillerMopp is now, if placed in the right hands, destined to be one of the greatest posters this board has ever encountered.

The sig pic alone is sooooo on point.

[Golfman25]

7 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Out of all our faults, I don’t think IU fans lack patience.   
 

 

 

(btw, if you can hit and/or defend the 3-ball at a high Div 1 level, I’m very happy to hear about your 4 years of eligibility)

It re-sets every November, though.  :) 

[HoosierFan1994]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Not on topic, but I'd kill to get last year's version of Miller Kopp on this year's team.

Miller; if you're reading this, the Hoosier fan base misses you! so feel free to create an anonymous account and like this post to show that you're watching from afar!     ;)

I forgot to mention this last night...but I miss Miller Kopp and Race Thompson. Way more than I thought. I was wrong on that. 

[RaceToTheTop]

2 hours ago, IndyResident16 said:

You don't have to sub a guard for a guard. Start your traditional 5, sub out Reneau for Cupps at the first media TO and slide MM to the 4 and play a rotation from there giving Gunn spot minutes. 

What’s your traditional 5 in this scenario if you are ‘sliding’ MM to the 4?  Because if your lineup is X, Gallo, Cupps, MM and Ware,  MM is already at the 4.

If there is one thing I want to avoid, it’s giving Cupps even spot minutes right now.  He’s a liability.  If you only have three playable guards, that means limited time with all three on the floor.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

So I guess we are going to judge him just off that one game? Makes sense. I mean it isn't like we played Parker Stewart and Miller Kopp at 2 and 3 or anything.

To be fair, it’s more than one game.  He’s had three years to show he belongs.

That said, at some point if Gunn can’t show anything then Leal should get his spot minutes

[IndyResident16]

6 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

What’s your traditional 5 in this scenario if you are ‘sliding’ MM to the 4?  Because if your lineup is X, Gallo, Cupps, MM and Ware,  MM is already at the 4.

If there is one thing I want to avoid, it’s giving Cupps even spot minutes right now.  He’s a liability.  If you only have three playable guards, that means limited time with all three on the floor.

The starting lineup we've used the last two games. Start with that and then replace Ware/Reneau with Cupps after the first media TO. We're currently playing two centers and then a PF out on the wing. Cupps isn't any more of a liability defensively than Reneau or MM right now trying to guard quicker players. You don't have to keep 3 guards on the court at all times, but having 3 guards vs 2 Centers and a PF is the better alternative. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by IndyResident16

[Golfman25]

16 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

What’s your traditional 5 in this scenario if you are ‘sliding’ MM to the 4?  Because if your lineup is X, Gallo, Cupps, MM and Ware,  MM is already at the 4.

If there is one thing I want to avoid, it’s giving Cupps even spot minutes right now.  He’s a liability.  If you only have three playable guards, that means limited time with all three on the floor.

Cupps is a liability?  You smoking something?