*RANT HERE*

[Golfman25 6,827]

7 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Last time I checked our final roster for next year isn't set. A lot of teams who mainly are using the portal probably doesn't have many signed for next year

Right. No problem.  The portal builds teams.  HS recruiting builds programs.   

[Scotty R 3,768]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Right. No problem.  The portal builds teams.  HS recruiting builds programs.   

Look at Kansas St last year when they had 1 player in their roster in May. They ended up going to the elite 8 I believe.

There is very little  program building a program any longer with the portal and guys being one and done 

[Hoosierfan2017 25,083]

Just now, Scotty R said:

Look at Kansas St last year when they had 1 player in their roster in May. They ended up going to the elite 8 I believe

Lmao man you were repeating this verbatim all last offseason. It was always too early to be concerned because “look at Kansas State!” Yet here we are - all our concerns came true. 

[Scotty R 3,768]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Lmao man you were repeating this verbatim all last offseason. It was always too early to be concerned because “look at Kansas State!” Yet here we are - all our concerns came true. 

I am not trying to defend Woodson because I don't think he is the guy but you can build a team through the portal and spring signees. I was so embarrassed after the Rutgers game I emailed Dolson about my concerns with Woodson

 

[Uspshoosier 54,566]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Lmao man you were repeating this verbatim all last offseason. It was always too early to be concerned because “look at Kansas State!” Yet here we are - all our concerns came true. 

IUs staff just didn’t do it right because other teams have been successful flipping a team through the portal.   If the multiple transfers don’t have to sit out anymore then even more focus will go to the portal instead of high school seniors.   Wake Forest, Memphis and Illinois struck gold in the portal.   Utah St replaced their coach and had 0 points back from last year and they are having a solid season.    It can be done it just wasn’t done by IU this year.   Maybe next year will be different 

[Hornsby 3,870]

Woody got to the tournament twice... with Archie's guys.

Exactly. It was always Davis won with knight guys. Well Woodson won with archie guys.

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[Hornsby 3,870]

Last time I checked our final roster for next year isn't set. A lot of teams who mainly are using the portal probably doesn't have many signed for next year

That's the problem you shouldn't be building a program through the portal but Woodson does

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[Bankshot 633]

40 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Right. No problem.  The portal builds teams.  HS recruiting builds programs.   

This is a great way to put it.

[Golfman25 6,827]

40 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Look at Kansas St last year when they had 1 player in their roster in May. They ended up going to the elite 8 I believe.

There is very little  program building a program any longer with the portal and guys being one and done 

You can always cite the one off -- "look they did it."  But look at the current top 10 ranked teams:

Uconn -- 1 transfer in

Purdont - 1 transfer in

Kansas - 5 in

UNC - 5 in

Houston - 2 in

Tenn  -- 2 in

Duke - 1 in

Kensucky - 1 in

Baylor - 2 in

Memphis - winner winner, chicken dinner with 9 in.  

7 of 10 of the top teams have 2 or less transfers in.  That's plugging holes.  

Life is so much easier if you have your guys and you're not turning the roster over every year.    

[IUFAN1976 4,320]

1 hour ago, RaceToTheTop said:

If you are talking rim running in terms of taking it on a break himself, he's simply not the ball handler that TJD is and he doesn't have the same nose for the game.  Ware is a pretty good player, but he's not TJD.

That was one point but I wasn’t including that, but Reneau could possibly fill that roll.  I’m talking about once he outlets the ball, he sprints like heck down the court and someone hits him with a pass or a lob, like a secondary break.  I haven’t seen that hardly at all from him

[RaceToTheTop 31,349]

14 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

That was one point but I wasn’t including that, but Reneau could possibly fill that roll.  I’m talking about once he outlets the ball, he sprints like heck down the court and someone hits him with a pass or a lob, like a secondary break.  I haven’t seen that hardly at all from him

I don't t disagree.  I do wish he had more dog in him in that respect.  I will say, though, that he has gotten him to play a hell of a lot harder than Dana Altman did at Oregon.  Altman IMO did a horrible job with him, including calling him out in the press.  Of course, he called out the fans in the press as well because they didn't show up for an NIT game.

[RaceToTheTop 31,349]

23 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

You can always cite the one off -- "look they did it."  But look at the current top 10 ranked teams:

Uconn -- 1 transfer in

Purdont - 1 transfer in

Kansas - 5 in

UNC - 5 in

Houston - 2 in

Tenn  -- 2 in

Duke - 1 in

Kensucky - 1 in

Baylor - 2 in

Memphis - winner winner, chicken dinner with 9 in.  

7 of 10 of the top teams have 2 or less transfers in.  That's plugging holes.  

Life is so much easier if you have your guys and you're not turning the roster over every year.    

Saying 7 of the 10 had 2 or less transfers in is a little deceiving....the average was 3 transfers in and three of those teams had 5 or more.

 

[RaceToTheTop 31,349]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

Right. No problem.  The portal builds teams.  HS recruiting builds programs.   

Agree, but if you are good at both you are golden.  Tennessee isn't a top ten team without Knecht.  If a team is a boat, recruiting builds the boat and the portal plugs the holes.

[Golfman25 6,827]

10 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Saying 7 of the 10 had 2 or less transfers in is a little deceiving....the average was 3 transfers in and three of those teams had 5 or more.

 

The teams with 5 or more lost a chit ton as well.  But it’s not deceiving at all.  Three teams are skewing your average.  The median is 2.  

[Golfman25 6,827]

5 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Agree, but if you are good at both you are golden.  Tennessee isn't a top ten team without Knecht.  If a team is a boat, recruiting builds the boat and the portal plugs the holes.

Tenn is a good example though.  They had a foundation. Brought in a guy to get them over the hump.  

[RaceToTheTop 31,349]

2 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

The teams with 5 or more lost a chit ton as well.  But it’s not deceiving at all.  Three teams are skewing your average.  The median is 2.  

Two of those teams you are talking about are Kansas and North Carolina.  If Kansas and North Carolina are bringing in five transfers, then it isn't just about recruiting high school players to build a program.  Why would they need five transfers to 'get them over the hump'?

[HoosierHoopster 8,515]

3 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

Right. No problem.  The portal builds teams.  HS recruiting builds programs.   

There’s something to this imo. Maybe those days are gone with the portal, but I hope not. 
A program - team built from the ground up can be so much deeper, and the chemistry that comes with it can’t be really be replicated in year by year redos. 
The NBA analogy is first the Spurs then Golden State, which largely followed the Spurs model. You gotta have the big building blocks - Duncan, Curry, but they were drafted, not got by trades. Manu, Parker, even Kawhi (drafted by the Pacers but immediately flipped to the Spurs who had him in their sights from day 1.) So all the NBA trades couldn’t stop the legacy teams that the Spurs and Dubs built (though don’t get me started on the Durant thing, lost respect on the move).
Of course you have a shorter period to build in college, but the Cody, Yogi, Vic, Wat teams? That’s the IU I want again

[Golfman25 6,827]

6 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Two of those teams you are talking about are Kansas and North Carolina.  If Kansas and North Carolina are bringing in five transfers, then it isn't just about recruiting high school players to build a program.  Why would they need five transfers to 'get them over the hump'?

They don’t.  The lost a bunch of players for some reason and where forced to pick up guys in the portal.  You can always point to a team here and a team there that turns it’s roster over and sees success (you’re citing two of the ten).  But I guess we’ll see if here is a team that is successful doing it consistently.  

[Golfman25 6,827]

7 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

But here is the thing

You agreed yesterday we should have a solid core back. We have a top 5/10? Recruit coming, more like Queen on hook. So we would be plugging needs.

but even beyond that - no one here. Not you, not me, not any coach yet knows if what you are saying will be true in next few years. This new version of the portal (which was just challenged again today in court saying it should always be unlimited), doesn’t mean CBB isn’t turned on its head. We don’t have enough data as it sits today. 
 

This years portal will be even crazier yet. The first school that pays a GM big money is going to win big. Maybe we can get Brad Stevens for that haha. 

So show me where it has been done successfully in all of sports.  It’s basically free agency — so look at the pros.  Sure someone comes along and builds a “dream team” thru free agency.  They see success for a few years but it eventually blows up.  
 

And at some point the NCAA will move to a contract model.  Meaning these kids and schools will commit to each other for a period of time.  No business can survive with the chaos the unlimited portal provides.  

[Golfman25 6,827]

3 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Valid points.

I guess I am just of the belief the roster core is fairly strong for next year and little more will be back than some think. That you only need 2/3 starting caliber guys coming back, add talented HS guys, all efforts in portal on 2 great guards, etc.

I guess one argument would be UK, Kansas as they have been pretty high turnover with usually only 1/2 starters returning. You could also argue it hasn’t led to many Championships but think we would all be pretty happy with what they have.

yes, NCAA has a mess but that is a whole other thread.  Was just saying we don’t know what will work in this new era 100%. 

I am not specifically look at next year, but several years out -- a long term Program perspective.  Team to team it will be what it is.  But longer term, where are we going.  

Just say all the starters come back (best case scenario) -- Ware, Malik, MM, Gallo and Cupps.  We are still loosing Walker, X, and Leal (thinking he's ready to start his biz career) to graduation.  Plus the open scholarship.  Then if CJ and/or Banks transfer.  We are looking 4-6 open spots with only 1 signed at this point.  Just think if we had a solid class of 4 freshmen coming in to build the future off of.  Add a guard or 2 from the portal for next season and then we are cooking.