IUBB @ Rutgers - Saturday, 12/3/22 @ 4:00 on BTN

[mbredenk101 525]

Rutgers and Wisconsin are perfect examples of why the Big Ten hasn't won a title in 22 years. The slow plodding games where the officiating lets the teams beat on each other does nothing to help recruiting or tournament chances. The conference as a whole does not get the top recruits because the reputation the conference has is easy to recruit against. I will take losses to Rutgers and Wisconsin each year if it means we don't play their style once we get to the tournament. Most of the other conference teams are starting to play up-tempo, so I am hoping the perception of the conference changes soon. Just my thoughts on it and why I really don't care if our losses come from playing a crappy style of basketball that doesn't bode well for a deep run in March.

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[Home Jersey 7,416]

22 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Maybe get TJD in some action where he’s moving towards the rim and not catching it with his back to the basket. (Maybe inject some fire in his belly and some leadership while we’re at it)


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I like the idea of TJD being used a little more in space as a change of pace.

I think TJD is fit for the job of being the team's primary leader. He isn't perfect though. He doesn't have to be.

We've got a seasoned bunch of guys, they all carry themselves differently. Not sure what exactly you're taking issue with from him? At the end of the day, these are our guys and I feel pretty good rolling with them. 

[Alford Bailey 12,374]

1 minute ago, mbredenk101 said:

Rutgers and Wisconsin are perfect examples of why the Big Ten hasn't won a title in 22 years. The slow plodding games where the officiating lets the teams beat on each other does nothing to help recruiting or tournament chances. The conference as a whole does not get the top recruits because the reputation the conference has is easy to recruit against. I will take losses to Rutgers and Wisconsin each year if it means we don't play their style once we get to the tournament. Most of the other conference teams are starting to play up-tempo, so I am hoping the perception of the conference changes soon. Just my thoughts on it and why I really don't care if our losses come from playing a crappy style of basketball that doesn't bode well for a deep run in March.

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Good point. We got punched in the face but that style of play is just terrible for the game.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Kopp is shooting over 50% from 3 through 8 games.  I hate it when some posters like Southside and Aloha trash him every chance they get but whatever.  Even when he’s not getting shots he’s creating space and opening up driving lanes.  That’s exactly what’s happened in a few games this year and those same posters are here still trashing him in game threads.  I’m going to miss him when he’s gone for sure.
My take on this game is simple.  Flush it and move on to the next one.

What have I posted that’s trashing him?
He struggles to rebound - there are countless examples of this including multiple in todays game.
He over helps - plenty of film on this including multiple times today (he’s not quick enough to contest when he starts in the lane)
He shouldn’t be shooting twos and concentrating on getting as many good looks from deep as possible. The numbers and eye test show this.

He had a fantastic game today shooting. That’s what we need from him. I posted as much throughout the game cheering his shooting on. We needs those to work together (inside and outside game) it’s great that he helps space the floor for XJ and JHS to attack but when he’s not hitting he’s not adding much. (The numbers prove this too)

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Rutgers and Wisconsin are perfect examples of why the Big Ten hasn't won a title in 22 years. The slow plodding games where the officiating lets the teams beat on each other does nothing to help recruiting or tournament chances. The conference as a whole does not get the top recruits because the reputation the conference has is easy to recruit against. I will take losses to Rutgers and Wisconsin each year if it means we don't play their style once we get to the tournament. Most of the other conference teams are starting to play up-tempo, so I am hoping the perception of the conference changes soon. Just my thoughts on it and why I really don't care if our losses come from playing a crappy style of basketball that doesn't bode well for a deep run in March.

 

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Good luck getting that changed. It’ll be like this until Izzo, Painter, and whoever has influence at Wiscy are gone. This is their style and they want little change.

 

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[Rico 3,034]

3 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Good luck getting that changed. It’ll be like this until Izzo, Painter, and whoever has influence at Wiscy are gone. This is their style and they want little change.

 

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[str8baller 5,214]

9 minutes ago, mbredenk101 said:

Rutgers and Wisconsin are perfect examples of why the Big Ten hasn't won a title in 22 years. The slow plodding games where the officiating lets the teams beat on each other does nothing to help recruiting or tournament chances. The conference as a whole does not get the top recruits because the reputation the conference has is easy to recruit against. I will take losses to Rutgers and Wisconsin each year if it means we don't play their style once we get to the tournament. Most of the other conference teams are starting to play up-tempo, so I am hoping the perception of the conference changes soon. Just my thoughts on it and why I really don't care if our losses come from playing a crappy style of basketball that doesn't bode well for a deep run in March.

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Wisconsin was slower under Bo Ryan and went FF, national runner up in his last two seasons. Virginia is slow and won a title and is one of the best teams every year. Kansas was 65th last year in aTempo and Baylor was 200+ the year before, so neither were all that blistering fast. 
 

Style isn’t all that important. It’s talent and coaching. 

[mbredenk101 525]

Good luck getting that changed. It’ll be like this until Izzo, Painter, and whoever has influence at Wiscy are gone. This is their style and they want little change.
 
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I agree, which is exactly why Illinois, Indiana, Michigan Iowa, and others that want to play uptempo shouldn't cater to it throughout the conference season. The teams that play uptempo and have success will see the fruits of doing so in their recruiting and tournament runs. I want IU to get up and down the floor and score points. Can someone let those other teams know that it is ok for the winner to have 80+ points and the loser to have 70?

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[JSHoosier 20,177]

32 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Kopp’s shooting 50% from 3. But as you said, you wanted to start Geronimo in front of him. So…

When did I ever say that?  I said Kopp shouldn't be starting but we're stuck with him in that spot, that should tell you how little I think of the alternatives.

I'm not much of a Geronimo fan frankly, he's an athlete that's learning how to be a basketball player.  Sometimes that works out well, like Oladipo, but he hasn't shown that type of jump yet.

I use his career percentage because the season is young.  He's never shown himself to be anywhere near a 50% shooter, I'd expect him to end up near his career.  His attempts are in line with last year so far.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

13 minutes ago, TeeterInNJ said:

I think TJD is fit for the job of being the team's primary leader. He isn't perfect though. He doesn't have to be.

We've got a seasoned bunch of guys, they all carry themselves differently. Not sure what exactly you're taking issue with from him? At the end of the day, these are our guys and I feel pretty good rolling with them. 

There will be some rolling their eyes...

TJD is not a natural leader. It's not in his personality. He's an extremely gifted basketball player and I'm sure a nice young man. He's proven his inability to lead and most of the game threads from last season has many of the reasons.

I'm happy with these players even their flaws. Although some of the off-court decisions made by XJ could be better. Look back at both the UNC and Xavier games to see who the leads this team. We need better consistency from XJ and for him to stay on the right side of the emotional line. When that happens the rest of the team responds.

[Home Jersey 7,416]

3 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

There will be some rolling their eyes...

TJD is not a natural leader. It's not in his personality. He's an extremely gifted basketball player and I'm sure a nice young man. He's proven his inability to lead and most of the game threads from last season has many of the reasons.

I'm happy with these players even their flaws. Although some of the off-court decisions made by XJ could be better. Look back at both the UNC and Xavier games to see who the leads this team. We need better consistency from XJ and for him to stay on the right side of the emotional line. When that happens the rest of the team responds.

I think XJ, TJD, Race and Miller all lead in different ways. I agree we need Xavier to be more consistent and level headed though. Tonight was so frustrating. I'm hoping we see a different attitude vs. Nebraska. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by TeeterInNJ

[IU - Kaulie 1,891]

21 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

What have I posted that’s trashing him?
He struggles to rebound - there are countless examples of this including multiple in todays game.
He over helps - plenty of film on this including multiple times today (he’s not quick enough to contest when he starts in the lane)
He shouldn’t be shooting twos and concentrating on getting as many good looks from deep as possible. The numbers and eye test show this.

He had a fantastic game today shooting. That’s what we need from him. I posted as much throughout the game cheering his shooting on. We needs those to work together (inside and outside game) it’s great that he helps space the floor for XJ and JHS to attack but when he’s not hitting he’s not adding much. (The numbers prove this too)

I don’t have the time to go back into threads and quote your remarks but let’s not act like you don’t like to call him out.

Each game is played differently.  He’s going to have games where he scores and he’s going to have games he doesn’t.  His value in those games is just being on the court and what that opens up for the team.

I strongly disagree about his defense.  He is so active with his hands and is almost always in the right position.  His defense is seriously undervalued.

I can agree about rebounding if you want to nitpick.  He is not rebounder.  TJD is not a jump shooter.  So what?

He should be starting and I think his minutes are about right.  If anything he should get a few more minutes.

Kopp is fine and his twos looked pretty good today.  I’m really going to miss him when he’s gone.

[coonhounds 8,917]

I feel today's loss is a bigger issue than just one game. Only because it exemplifies all our struggles last several years. We can still be good but not sure about elite. We need to be elite

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[RaceToTheTop 25,624]

9 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Wisconsin was slower under Bo Ryan and went FF, national runner up in his last two seasons. Virginia is slow and won a title and is one of the best teams every year. Kansas was 65th last year in aTempo and Baylor was 200+ the year before, so neither were all that blistering fast. 
 

Style isn’t all that important. It’s talent and coaching. 

Except that the Big Ten is falling behind in recruiting, likely due to the style of play.  This year, JHS and Reneau are the only top 30 recruits (by 247) to commit to a Big Ten school and they were ranked 23 and 30.  In 2023, the top 30 have already committed and none are going to Big Ten schools.

It's not really deniable that the Big Ten has failed as a conference once the NCAA tournament has started.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,330]

34 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

Kopp is shooting over 50% from 3 through 8 games.  I hate it when some posters like Southside and Aloha trash him every chance they get but whatever.  Even when he’s not getting shots he’s creating space and opening up driving lanes.  That’s exactly what’s happened in a few games this year and those same posters are here still trashing him in game threads.  I’m going to miss him when he’s gone for sure.

My take on this game is simple.  Flush it and move on to the next one.

He’s shot the ball well this season. I don’t expect him to stay at 50%, but if he can hit 40% like he did as a sophomore that’d be great. I don’t feel strongly about him either way. I don’t think he’s great, and ideally he wouldn’t be starting, but he’s the best we have at that position. 

[RaceToTheTop 25,624]

9 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

There will be some rolling their eyes...

TJD is not a natural leader. It's not in his personality. He's an extremely gifted basketball player and I'm sure a nice young man. He's proven his inability to lead and most of the game threads from last season has many of the reasons.

I'm happy with these players even their flaws. Although some of the off-court decisions made by XJ could be better. Look back at both the UNC and Xavier games to see who the leads this team. We need better consistency from XJ and for him to stay on the right side of the emotional line. When that happens the rest of the team responds.

I'm not sure what really be eye rolling about what you said.  TJD seems like a quiet guy and not one who gets in people's faces.  It is what it is.  Leadership shows itself in different ways and he certainly has had his game rise to the occasion more often than not.  Today he didn't, but if you are looking for a guy that is vocal and challenging other guys and getting in their faces, that's not his MO.

Disappointing game for X today as he had been really good lately.

[Home Jersey 7,416]

1 minute ago, coonhounds said:

I feel today's loss is a bigger issue than just one game. Only because it exemplifies all our struggles last several years. We can still be good but not sure about elite. We need to be elite

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Next 3 games are going to tell us a lot. Hard to feel great after today, just so ugly.

But before the UNC game, a lot of us were saying if we go 3-2 over the next 5 game stretch, we'd be satisfied. So we'll see.

Dropping the RU game makes 3-2 an awful lot harder, considering we're 1-1 now with Nebraska and Arizona in the next week, followed by Kansas on the road. 2-3 over this stretch feels like another "good, but not great" kind of year. Trying to remind myself there's a lot of season left and a lot of time for them to iron out the junk we saw out there today.

[RaceToTheTop 25,624]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

He’s shot the ball well this season. I don’t expect him to stay at 50%, but if he can hit 40% like he did as a sophomore that’d be great. I don’t feel strongly about him either way. I don’t think he’s great, and ideally he wouldn’t be starting, but he’s the best we have at that position. 

Yep....if Bates could consistently knock shots down or not get lost occasionally on offense, Kopp wouldn't be starting.  Anyone getting mad at Kopp starting should be more upset that no one has legitimately taken the spot from him.

[RaceToTheTop 25,624]

14 minutes ago, TeeterInNJ said:

I think XJ, TJD, Race and Miller all lead in different ways. I agree we need Xavier to be more consistent and level headed though. Tonight was so frustrating. I'm hoping we see a different attitude vs. Nebraska. 

Hot take:  next year this is Trey's team to lead.

[RoadRage 1,779]

An IU loss to Rutgers and a Purdue win over Michigan and a Big Ten Championship for Purdue, is more than I can handle....please pray for me!