IU Basketball News and Notes

[Hovadipo 56,100]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

We've never lost a tailgate or an offseason. 

A PRE GAME/SEASON DYNASTY? Next, on First Take...

[go iu bb 5,957]

4 hours ago, Honkyman said:

Archie was reacting to what the IU fan base criticized Crean for--losing out on some of the best Indiana players. Archie pledged at his first press event that he would recruit "inside out" meaning make sure IU gets the top in-state players and he was widely praised at the time for saying it. He successfully recruited three straight Indiana Mr. Basketballs, two of whom are still playing for IU plus Trey Galloway who has been an impactful player. Archie targeted several top out-of-state players but struck out with most, e.g., Darius Garland, Dawson Garcia. But there are a couple of really good out-of-state Archie recruits still on the team--Race Thompson, Jordan Geronimo. One of Archie's problems in recruiting is he didn't have much to sell because IU was underperforming on the basketball court. That ended up hurting him even with some top in-state players, e.g., Trey Kaufman. 

Possibly the biggest issue with Miller's recruiting was talent evaluation. Too many players he targeted have turned out to be just not very good even though their HS rankings made it seem otherwise. This goes for players he missed on as well those he landed. Lots of busts were recruited.

IU underperforming definitely hurt in the Kaufman recruiting but the bigger issue was with how he was recruited. Miller and company really f'ed that up. They tried to recruit him as TJD 2.0 when he is more interested in having more of a perimeter game as a stretch 4 or even a 3.

[lillurk 3,738]

3 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Agree, and similarly we often seem to think we're 'deep' only to find, not really, but we definitely are deeper across the floor. Galloway's injury hurts that, and I hope he recovers well and is back in action by December or so, and the wing / outside shooting is still kind of a question mark at this point, but there's good depth with experienced vets, rising sophs-juniors, and excellent incoming players with college ready bodies and athleticism. I'm stoked

Yes, I’ve been thinking this all offseason. The hoped-for depth isn’t much about projection, IU returns a bunch of players who have played meaningful roles on a tourney team: TJD, Race, X, JG, Kopp, and Trey. Add in a guy who got some burn and doesn’t hurt you (Leal), and a sophomore who had flashes (Bates) and you’re not even asking anything of the newcomers when you say this team will be good and have some depth. Every leap from Bates and the frosh is gravy.

[lillurk 3,738]

1 hour ago, go iu bb said:

Possibly the biggest issue with Miller's recruiting was talent evaluation. Too many players he targeted have turned out to be just not very good even though their HS rankings made it seem otherwise. This goes for players he missed on as well those he landed. Lots of busts were recruited.

This is especially true the further down the recruiting rankings you go. Romeo and TJD: great. Race: good pickup further down. Missed on lots of top ~40 guys who were good (UNC’s backcourt, Garland, etc.) but did very poorly at identifying and developing guys who weren’t sure things.

[go iu bb 5,957]

6 minutes ago, lillurk said:

This is especially true the further down the recruiting rankings you go. Romeo and TJD: great. Race: good pickup further down. Missed on lots of top ~40 guys who were good (UNC’s backcourt, Garland, etc.) but did very poorly at identifying and developing guys who weren’t sure things.

Even some of the higher ranked players. 

Lander: 5* but wasn't really recruited by many top schools. They turned out to be correct on this one.

Hunter: Top 60 recruit. Could be that his medical condition completely derailed his career but it's also possible he wouldn't have been as good as expected even without that. Regardless, ended up as a bust. 

And then when you get down to around 100 or higher, his success rate at evaluating that was really bad.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,314]

Even some of the higher ranked players. 
Lander: 5* but wasn't really recruited by many top schools. They turned out to be correct on this one.
Hunter: Top 60 recruit. Could be that his medical condition completely derailed his career but it's also possible he wouldn't have been as good as expected even without that. Regardless, ended up as a bust. 
And then when you get down to around 100 or higher, his success rate at evaluating that was really bad.

I agree with this. Yet, Hunter in brief time looked to rival Romeo in the scrimmage. He looked very promising to me. Lander, idk, he was always so small and in my opinion underperformed Leal and Galloway on the same AAU teams. These guys were near/at #100 range and Lander played second fiddle to them. That was my biggest sign.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[cthomas 6,424]

I think Hunter probably was the real deal before the medical issue. It's hard to quantify the psychological damage that very serious problem did to him. That being said, CMW seems to be doing things on a whole different level. The kids he is targeting, and signing, are what Indiana basketball should look like.

[Josh 12,632]

Wait...so Archie sucked?  Who knew 

[Brass Cannon 24,740]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

Wait...so Archie sucked?  Who knew 

Archie doesn’t suck. He’s very good at what he’s does. But what he does is a gimmick system that doesn’t work against guys that can both shoot and are athletic freaks 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,314]

Wait...so Archie sucked?  Who knew 

Archie feigned confidence but didn’t truly have it yet. He always knew his big brother was better. We took the chance too soon on him. Bad hire atm.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[DChoosier 8,348]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Archie doesn’t suck. He’s very good at what he’s does. But what he does is a gimmick system that doesn’t work against guys that can both shoot and are athletic freaks 

He might not suck but the manner in which seemingly zero of his former players give him props, or even acknowledge that he was the coach here, makes me wonder a bit more. None of them mentioned him on senior night, no expressions (at least what I read) of regret when he was fired, a few of the guys we still have when he left would have been gone if he stayed around, etc etc.

Calling Crean goofy etc is somewhat of a sport but I have heard multiple podcast with players (Yogi, Troy, Cody, etc) that speak very highly of him, say how important he is to them and they still exchange tweets, extend congratulations to each other, etc etc.

For whatever reason the entire chemistry was “off” with Miller which I think was part of the reason that he had some teams that seemed to essentially give up. Wish him luck with his new gig but man he was a total bust here. He is young so hopefully, for him, he learned a few things and will grow.

[Brass Cannon 24,740]

4 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

He might not suck but the manner in which seemingly zero of his former players give him props, or even acknowledge that he was the coach here, makes me wonder a bit more. None of them mentioned him on senior night, no expressions (at least what I read) of regret when he was fired, a few of the guys we still have when he left would have been gone if he stayed around, etc etc.

Calling Crean goofy etc is somewhat of a sport but I have heard multiple podcast with players (Yogi, Troy, Cody, etc) that speak very highly of him, say how important he is to them and they still exchange tweets, extend congratulations to each other, etc etc.

For whatever reason the entire chemistry was “off” with Miller which I think was part of the reason that he had some teams that seemed to essentially give up. Wish him luck with his new gig but man he was a total bust here. He is young so hopefully, for him, he learned a few things and will grow.

That’s fair. Miller was/is a terrible leader. He couldn’t establish credibility in anyway other than winning.  He inherited winning in Dayton. Let’s see about Rhode Island 

[lillurk 3,738]

6 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Calling Crean goofy etc is somewhat of a sport but I have heard multiple podcast with players (Yogi, Troy, Cody, etc) that speak very highly of him, say how important he is to them and they still exchange tweets, extend congratulations to each other, etc etc.

They’re really different dudes, but this stands out. Crean was demanding, goofy, and actually won meaningful stuff at IU, and his players, broadly speaking, seem to maintain a fondness for him. I’d add that in the macro, his offenses are IU were truly excellent, not just a matter of reputation.

[str8baller 5,232]

13 minutes ago, lillurk said:

his offenses are IU were truly excellent, n

They really were not. All based on transition that were completely useless when teams forced us half court. It’s why he struggled with zones. He has little offense besides yelling “faster” and pushing tempo. 
 

Players tend to speak fondly of coaches if they experience success. It doesn’t surprise me that guys like Yogi and Cody speak fondly of Crean. Of course, the players demanded Davis get the job when Knight was fired. Players can be pretty biased. 
 

Archie was in over his head and had to be let go.  It’s a risk you run when taking guys out of the minor leagues. Luckily we landed Woody. I’m real curious to see how his off season development shakes out. 

[lillurk 3,738]

Crean had four top ten offenses in five years starting in ‘11-‘12, and a borderline top 25 one the sixth year, after which he got fired. Miss me with the revisionist history.

[Hardwood83 4,773]

14 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Crean had four top ten offenses in five years starting in ‘11-‘12, and a borderline top 25 one the sixth year, after which he got fired. Miss me with the revisionist history.

Good point, only fair to give credit along with criticism. Dude was wildly inconsistent and had some clear gaps in his coaching, but he put together a coulpe really good teams. 

[lillurk 3,738]

2 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

Good point, only fair to give credit along with criticism. Dude was wildly inconsistent and had some clear gaps in his coaching, but he put together a coulpe really good teams. 

He wasn’t perfect, and when it ended it was probably time. I think he might agree, this far removed. To paraphrase John Gasaway, if basketball coaches divided responsibilities like football staffs, he’d have a reputation as a terrific offensive coordinator.

[8bucks 6,438]

23 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Archie feigned confidence but didn’t truly have it yet. He always knew his big brother was better. We took the chance too soon on him. Bad hire atm.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

I wonder how he would have approached things had the FBI thing not blown up his brother. Would be hard to convince me that he would not have followed the Sean approach 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,314]

I wonder how he would have approached things had the FBI thing not blown up his brother. Would be hard to convince me that he would not have followed the Sean approach 

Indiana Brass wasn’t going to allow it. NIL changed the game for Indiana.

Also, the Romeo experiment didn’t go the way Archie Needed it to go unfortunately for His reputation. However, imo, Romeo was lucky as heck to go #14 or whatever. His play never garnered his draft position.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[IUFAN1976 3,103]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Indiana Brass wasn’t going to allow it. NIL changed the game for Indiana.

Also, the Romeo experiment didn’t go the way Archie Needed it to go unfortunately for His reputation. However, imo, Romeo was lucky as heck to go #14 or whatever. His play never garnered his draft position.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

And still doesn’t.