IUBB vs Illinois- 2/5/2022 @ 12:00 on ESPN

[WayneFleekHoosier 50,270]

Very true and it seems we all may lose sight of that!  I’ve got a feeling this roster will be much improved my year 3!

Woody isn’t a young man that can find his way for 3 or 4 years. You’ve got it or you don’t. Free market, transfer central. If you don’t have the roster to do what you want to do, get one. We don’t project to be better next year. Nothing magical about year 3 or 4. When you hire a guy Woody’s age, it’s a win now proposition. If by year 3 or 4 it’s all the same, then what? This off season will answer every question I have and what we try to accomplish.


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[IUFAN1976 4,320]

7 hours ago, DWB said:

He does and he's reaping the rewards of no 3 second calls, no traveling calls, and on and on and on....

It did seem as if Kofi camped out in the lane and I counted at 4 or 5 traveling violations that weren’t called.  It maybe perfectly legal move, but it just seemed some of those step backs looked weird.  One seemed like his step back covered over 3 feet.  James Harden gets by with that, but now it has seemed to infiltrated into the college game!

[IUFAN1976 4,320]

8 hours ago, Hooserfan1901 said:

Illinois fans are not happy 

Well it didn’t help us out that much!

[lillurk 4,634]

13 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Woody isn’t a young man that can find his way for 3 or 4 years. You’ve got it or you don’t. Free market, transfer central. If you don’t have the roster to do what you want to do, get one. We don’t project to be better next year. Nothing magical about year 3 or 4. When you hire a guy Woody’s age, it’s a win now proposition. If by year 3 or 4 it’s all the same, then what? This off season will answer every question I have and what we try to accomplish.


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I see your point but it’s a tough to imagine the talent on the roster could’ve been upgraded a ton more from where he started for year one. IU’s losses this year basically fall into three categories to me thus far:

1. Cuse, Iowa: too many TOs; torched by a player type we struggle to guard for roster reasons (big, versatile wings); road games.

2. UW, PSU: close road losses where Galloway would’ve made enough of a difference but was hurt.

3. UM, UI: more talented teams and/or uniquely bad TJD matchups. Also badly outshot from 3 in these two.

(Depending on your perspective you could move UW to category 3, though predictive models don’t really indicate they’re much better and aside from Davis their talent level isn’t clearly higher.)

The good news is the TO issues seem to have been cleaned up and Galloway’s back. The bad news is there’s no midseason talent infusion coming.

IU certainly stands to lose a few contributors to graduation at least, but I also think part of the talent issue is that Archie was allergic to identifying, attracting, developing, and implementing guard and wing talent, and CMW is picking up the pieces.

To even be where IU is so far is good. The job isn’t done. But a couple of impact transfers and/or spring additions based on roster need can be had, and I’m bullish on next year.

[Golfman25 6,329]

6 hours ago, str8baller said:

I think Woody has been doing a good job, but he didn’t have a good day today. Bad game plan. Bad half time adjustments.  It happens.
 

Its beyond obvious TJD can’t play the bigger centers straight up. Were small and need to front and help like Race was doing at the end of the first half. 
 

It’s also obvious you can’t feed TJD in the post as the basis of your offense against those guys.  
 

Our perimeter players aren’t great but we have depth. We have to run and pressure these bigger teams. Kind of like we did Purdue at times. TJD has to play like a role player in these type of games and not some focal point. We literally played better without him at times today because we weren’t trying to let him matchup with Kofi. 

Agreed.  We should have run a lot more and tired that big fella out.  We played to their strengths  and go whupped.   

[lillurk 4,634]

46 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Woody isn’t a young man that can find his way for 3 or 4 years. You’ve got it or you don’t. Free market, transfer central. If you don’t have the roster to do what you want to do, get one. We don’t project to be better next year. Nothing magical about year 3 or 4. When you hire a guy Woody’s age, it’s a win now proposition. If by year 3 or 4 it’s all the same, then what? This off season will answer every question I have and what we try to accomplish.


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Oh I should add: totally agree there’s nothing magical about y3 or 4, I was incredulous anyone thought that under Arch.

I do think the players projected to be on the roster in year 3* have the outlines of a pretty special nucleus. Guards/wings win, that’s part of what limits IU’s ceiling this year.

*see the 23-24 scholarship chart here, though of course there are names there that surely won’t be on that team, starting w/TJD

[IU - Kaulie 2,073]

So was at the game and please forgive me for not going through this thread as I’m sure this has been talked about so many times but I think a lot of us were just shocked how Kofi quite frankly just dominated TJD on both ends.  I’m not sure how it translated on television but live I don’t know what to say other than that was just really tough to watch as a TJD fan.  We weren’t expecting that.  Kofi knew it.  Illinois knew it.  That was just really tough to see I don’t know what else to say.  TJD didn’t show up against PU and the UM big man did whatever he wanted against us too.  Is TJD just not on that level when he doesn’t have a clear advantage athletically or physically against lesser and smaller opponents?

Can we survive going forward without RP?  I want to say I think we can but I just don’t know.  For all the crap he takes on here he is greatly missed.  One thing that is for sure is that Lander can’t play but we have no options.

The only other thing I will add is that I have liked Bates.  Still do.  Right now though I’m not so sure he should be getting the minutes he is getting.  Anthony Leal should be getting minutes.

 

 

 

[Golfman25 6,329]

6 hours ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

Being an IU/Cowboys fan Trayce is our Dak. Plays great against weaker competition and struggles against the best. I like Trayce a lot. But he’s a very good college player at best. Just limited as a big. 

When the kid goes up against a beast, It ain't going to happen.  We needed to stop the post ups and let him use his athleticism.  We did not.  Sometimes coaches' egos are bigger than their brains.  A man's got to know his limitations.   

[IU - Kaulie 2,073]

4 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

They'll just replace them with other dudes and we'll be saying the same thing next season. That's life as an IU basketball fan. 

Purdue maybe.  Illinois will go away.

[HoosierAloha 30,100]

53 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

When the kid goes up against a beast, It ain't going to happen.  We needed to stop the post ups and let him use his athleticism.  We did not.  Sometimes coaches' egos are bigger than their brains.  A man's got to know his limitations.   

There is nothing in TJD's game that will allow him to use his athleticism against bigger, stronger post defenders. Cockburn, Dickinson, Edey/Williams can just camp in the lane and wait for TJD there. Why we weren't running P Stew and Kopp through TJD off-ball screens to force Kofi to help while TJD dove is beyond me. We tried dumping the ball inside to TJD that wasn't going to do much against Cockburn. That was a losing game plan. TJD played like he wanted to be on the bench instead of going up against Cockburn.

It's a broken record but P Stew and Kopp are net negatives if you're not going to get them looks. Against teams with equal or better bigs we have to run plays for our perimeter players because TJD isn't going to dominate that matchup. We caught lightning in a bottle against purdoodoo with Phin going off and Durr playing his best of the year.

[HoosierAloha 30,100]

1 hour ago, lillurk said:

I see your point but it’s a tough to imagine the talent on the roster could’ve been upgraded a ton more from where he started for year one. IU’s losses this year basically fall into three categories to me thus far:

1. Cuse, Iowa: too many TOs; torched by a player type we struggle to guard for roster reasons (big, versatile wings); road games.

2. UW, PSU: close road losses where Galloway would’ve made enough of a difference but was hurt.

3. UM, UI: more talented teams and/or uniquely bad TJD matchups. Also badly outshot from 3 in these two.

(Depending on your perspective you could move UW to category 3, though predictive models don’t really indicate they’re much better and aside from Davis their talent level isn’t clearly higher.)

The good news is the TO issues seem to have been cleaned up and Galloway’s back. The bad news is there’s no midseason talent infusion coming.

IU certainly stands to lose a few contributors to graduation at least, but I also think part of the talent issue is that Archie was allergic to identifying, attracting, developing, and implementing guard and wing talent, and CMW is picking up the pieces.

To even be where IU is so far is good. The job isn’t done. But a couple of impact transfers and/or spring additions based on roster need can be had, and I’m bullish on next year.

I remember plenty being quite excited about the talent coming in this year. Kopp was going to keep teams honest with his outside shooting. P Stew was going to light it up. Bates was an absolute steal. Woody and Co. went and got who they wanted. They targeted a player and landed them in short order. We have warts with one trick players who aren't getting enough attempts or being put in position to do that one thing well.

The losses could also be categorized differently although we don't like to use the e words here.

Category 1: No real sign of e and e for the entire game - PSU and UM

Category 2: We played for a half with e and e, forgot 40 minutes were required - Cuse, UW, Iowa, UI

Category 3: You knew the punch was coming but lost our mind - UW, Iowa, UI

Through the season, we've gotten better with limiting TOs, although we've had several games where we slipped back to old ways. We've gotten better with intensity but have definitely had lapses. We've had our moments of shooting well but it's still not at the volume or percentage from deep to really affect games, FT shooting has been atrocious in too many games. We should be better at rebounding but Kopp and P Stew really aren't interested in that. TJD needs to be better. Our defense is better than in previous years but we still leave shooters WIDE OPEN. 

Basically, we are who we are, a very flawed team fighting for a tourney birth. We've beaten 2 (maybe ?) tourney teams at home while 4 of our losses have come against non-tourney teams.

[Uspshoosier 52,014]

23 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Basically, we are who we are, a very flawed team fighting for a tourney birth. We've beaten 2 (maybe ?) tourney teams at home while 4 of our losses have come against non-tourney teams.

A flawed team that is comfortably in the field as of today.  IU’s past in these situations gives IU fans including me pause when it comes to the home stretch but if you ask any national bracketologist they will tell you IU is a solid tourney team with a good resume.   I asked a couple about IU and heard some on some podcasts talking  about IU’s resume.  I always like to get a outside perception of the situation.   IU isn’t as good as they were against Purdue and Ohio St and they are not as bad as they were against Michigan and Penn St on the road.   Pretty much they are 7-10 seeded team that has flaws.  Losing games to non tourney teams on the road and even at home is par the course for teams seeded in this area.   IU at least has 2 wins against the field and maybe 3 because Notre Dame is showing up in some projections.   USC a team that many have ahead of IU and I even think usc is ranked in the AP has 0 wins against the projected field.    

[Golfman25 6,329]

52 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

There is nothing in TJD's game that will allow him to use his athleticism against bigger, stronger post defenders. Cockburn, Dickinson, Edey/Williams can just camp in the lane and wait for TJD there. Why we weren't running P Stew and Kopp through TJD off-ball screens to force Kofi to help while TJD dove is beyond me. We tried dumping the ball inside to TJD that wasn't going to do much against Cockburn. That was a losing game plan. TJD played like he wanted to be on the bench instead of going up against Cockburn.

It's a broken record but P Stew and Kopp are net negatives if you're not going to get them looks. Against teams with equal or better bigs we have to run plays for our perimeter players because TJD isn't going to dominate that matchup. We caught lightning in a bottle against purdoodoo with Phin going off and Durr playing his best of the year.

He blew right by him on the baseline like he wasn’t even there.  

[lillurk 4,634]

50 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I remember plenty being quite excited about the talent coming in this year. Kopp was going to keep teams honest with his outside shooting. P Stew was going to light it up. Bates was an absolute steal. Woody and Co. went and got who they wanted. They targeted a player and landed them in short order. We have warts with one trick players who aren't getting enough attempts or being put in position to do that one thing well.

The losses could also be categorized differently although we don't like to use the e words here.

Category 1: No real sign of e and e for the entire game - PSU and UM

Category 2: We played for a half with e and e, forgot 40 minutes were required - Cuse, UW, Iowa, UI

Category 3: You knew the punch was coming but lost our mind - UW, Iowa, UI

Through the season, we've gotten better with limiting TOs, although we've had several games where we slipped back to old ways. We've gotten better with intensity but have definitely had lapses. We've had our moments of shooting well but it's still not at the volume or percentage from deep to really affect games, FT shooting has been atrocious in too many games. We should be better at rebounding but Kopp and P Stew really aren't interested in that. TJD needs to be better. Our defense is better than in previous years but we still leave shooters WIDE OPEN. 

Basically, we are who we are, a very flawed team fighting for a tourney birth. We've beaten 2 (maybe ?) tourney teams at home while 4 of our losses have come against non-tourney teams.

But in the macro, did anyone think IU would be a much better team this year? Maybe they had higher expectations for specific players, sure.

But if IU had simply flipped one of their conferences losses — two of which came down to the final minute — they would currently be one game out of first place.

I understand frustrations but the idea that in year one cleaning up they’d be a contender in conference? That wasn’t anyone’s expectation.

[HoosierAloha 30,100]

He blew right by him on the baseline like he wasn’t even there.  

Kofi or any big TJD’s size or bigger just has to give him a little space and meet him near the lane. That negates TJD’s athleticism. It’s basically what Kofi did the entire game. I’m not a coach but there is no need to defend TJD outside of the lane. It was like watching a middle schooler against a high schooler. Kofi, Underwood, TJD, and just about anyone else watching realized it was a mismatch.

It would be interesting to see the last time TJD had a great game against any of the top tier Big 1.o bigs. That off-season talk of developing hasn’t paid off much against like talent in the Big 1.o this season. I have my theories for that but I’ll keep them to myself.


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[HoosierAloha 30,100]

A flawed team that is comfortably in the field as of today.  IU’s past in these situations gives IU fans including me pause when it comes to the home stretch but if you ask any national bracketologist they will tell you IU is a solid tourney team with a good resume.   I asked a couple about IU and heard some on some podcasts talking  about IU’s resume.  I always like to get a outside perception of the situation.   IU isn’t as good as they were against Purdue and Ohio St and they are not as bad as they were against Michigan and Penn St on the road.   Pretty much they are 7-10 seeded team that has flaws.  Losing games to non tourney teams on the road and even at home is par the course for teams seeded in this area.   IU at least has 2 wins against the field and maybe 3 because Notre Dame is showing up in some projections.   USC a team that many have ahead of IU and I even think usc is ranked in the AP has 0 wins against the projected field.    

As of today…
We’ve played a pretty soft schedule. We lucked out with our schedule this season. We start getting into a bit tougher stretch.

5 of 8 on the road, difficult to win on the road in the Big 1.o.

We play more games against the upper half of the league. We’ve played 4 of the first 12 conference against the top half. We were lucky to get O$U when we did. We’re set to play 5 of the next 8 against the top half.

Northwestern has been playing a lot better as of late.

We’re comfortably in and we have opportunities to improve on that. However, we actually have to do it and not just talk about it.

We have several of the same players that were on those teams that snatched NIT bids from the jaws of the bubble. I’m unsure how much they’ve progressed in the intangible department. Our transfers really haven’t had much success winning games to get into the tourney.

While we did beat purdoodoo at home in a charged environment, thanks to Phin for having the game of his life, we completely forgot to show up against Michigan (a not so rare blast from the past). We put it together against O$U, while they were still recovering from their COVID pause, thanks TJD. However, TJD completely shrank against Ill.

I don’t really think we win on the road at MSU, O$U, and we get crushed at purdoodoo. We should beat Maryland and Rutger at home. That leaves a few pick ems against NW and Minny on the road and Wiscy at home.

We’ve had probably three chances this year to kind of break through and we’ve choked those away. We’re comfortably in today but if we’re sitting at 17 wins in a few weeks needing to finish strong how likely are we still comfortably in? We’re fighting for a tourney birth because of who we’ve been and who we currently are, a very flawed college basketball team.


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[chicagoHOOSIER 1,051]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

Kofi or any big TJD’s size or bigger just has to give him a little space and meet him near the lane. That negates TJD’s athleticism. It’s basically what Kofi did the entire game. I’m not a coach but there is no need to defend TJD outside of the lane. It was like watching a middle schooler against a high schooler. Kofi, Underwood, TJD, and just about anyone else watching realized it was a mismatch.

It would be interesting to see the last time TJD had a great game against any of the top tier Big 1.o bigs. That off-season talk of developing hasn’t paid off much against like talent in the Big 1.o this season. I have my theories for that but I’ll keep them to myself.


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You seem like you may follow some of the mocks enough to actually know which ones might be worth reading so I will ask you. Is TJD even mocking in the draft? I have only casually looked for a couple of days and have not seen his name listed anywhere in mock drafts except in one mock draft listing him as an afterthought on the bubble below Kofi who destroyed TJD today. Kofi seems to project, from what I have read, to be about the last guy picked in the second round nearly across the board. I am not really seeing TJD at this stage looking like a guy who can play in or even make it to the NBA. I am seeing a guy getting outperformed a lot in the Big Ten for several weeks almost consistently now, even at home. He has some pretty good games too in the Big Ten, but I am not seeing the dominant type college basketball player that makes it to the NBA in TJD. He is our best guy by far, but that alone does not make him NBA calibre. I am thinking maybe I just bought into some hype because I have heard a lot about how he is going to the NBA after this season.

[HoosierAloha 30,100]

But in the macro, did anyone think IU would be a much better team this year? Maybe they had higher expectations for specific players, sure.
But if IU had simply flipped one of their conferences losses — two of which came down to the final minute — they would currently be one game out of first place.
I understand frustrations but the idea that in year one cleaning up they’d be a contender in conference? That wasn’t anyone’s expectation.

Maybe time to revisit season predictions thread? I remember seeing many on there predicting 20+ wins. We’ve had a favorable schedule thus far but things are going to get a little tougher down the stretch.

The woulda, coulda, shoulda…

8-4 in Big 1.o play would be one game out of first place..? In what Big 1.o is 8-4 one game out? Again, we’ve play an easier conference schedule.


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[HoosierAloha 30,100]

You seem like you may follow some of the mocks enough to actually know which ones might be worth reading so I will ask you. Is TJD even mocking in the draft? I have only casually looked for a couple of days and have not seen his name listed anywhere in mock drafts except in one mock draft listing him as an afterthought on the bubble below Kofi who destroyed TJD today. Kofi seems to project, from what I have read, to be about the last guy picked in the second round nearly across the board. I am not really seeing TJD at this stage looking like a guy who can play in or even make it to the NBA. I am seeing a guy getting destroyed routinely in the Big Ten for several weeks almost consistently now, often at home. He has some pretty good games too in the Big Ten, but I am not seeing the dominant type college basketball player that makes it to the NBA in TJD. He is our best guy by far, but that alone does not make him NBA calibre. I am thinking maybe I just bought into some hype because I have heard a lot about how he is going to the NBA after this season.

I’m not sure who even does mock drafts, maybe ESPN? Not sure if they’re accurate, not in my wheelhouse. There was a ton of hype about Woody being able to keep TJD because he was gone. The talk was that TJD would develop a jumper and a right hand. TJD has been given more freedom on defense to block shots. TJD isn’t a banger against bigger bigs and has a lot of opportunity to improve on intangibles that would help his team win. He has the body and athleticism to play in the league but lacks skill and the other major aspects to play in the NBA.


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[TheWatShot 15,176]

17 minutes ago, chicagoHOOSIER said:

 I am thinking maybe I just bought into some hype because I have heard a lot about how he is going to the NBA after this season.

Our fanbase did this with Christian Watford lol. I don't think some of our fans realize how difficult it is to become an NBA draft pick, or what NBA scouts even look for. They just think the best players on our teams are NBA material, which goes hand in hand with thinking our teams are more talented than they actually are.