Justin Smith Declares

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

Durham's strength is that he plays hard. He has also hit some clutch shots and free throws. But if Franklin finds shooting consistency or Leal transitions well, Durham could find himself losing playing time.

I agree. He did play hard and hit some clutch shots. But too many games he just didn’t show up. We needed him to be a scorer last season since Green wasn’t able to. We didn’t get that. Durham still acted like a timid role player too often. I think Franklin can be a better defender, and he shot 41.7% from 3 in the last 10 games he played last season. But he also only averaged 7.5 minutes a game and within that span didn’t play in 2. Durhams minutes are honestly more likely to be pulled from Lander being able to play the 2 if Rob can get any better at the 1. And Hunter being able to play the 3.


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[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Because Durham was the exact same player this past season as he was his Sophomore year. Sure his numbers got better, but he didn’t change any. He’s still an inconsistent offensive player, inconsistent aggressive offensive player, inconsistent leader, reportedly an attitude problem along with Smith and a bad decision maker. He made a couple big plays in the clutch, but made stupid ones too. He feasted on the little guys at the beginning of the season(averaged 13.7 points, shot 42.3% from 3 and 90.1% from FT in the first 7 games). He was Al’s problem after those 1st 7 games, he scored 5 against FSU, 5 against ND, 2 against Arky, 5 against Maryland, 3 against OSU, 4 against Maryland, 5 against PSU, 5 against Purdue, 6 against Iowa and 2 against Purdue. Now we won some of those games, but he didn’t show up when we needed him. We were lucky enough Green went off against FSU. But was held to 5 or less in 9 games. Smith was held to the same in 5 games but we went 4-1 in those while going 4-6(also only scored 5 against SDSU). We had veteran guard with the consistency of a freshman.


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I agree. He did play hard and hit some clutch shots. But too many games he just didn’t show up. We needed him to be a scorer last season since Green wasn’t able to. We didn’t get that. Durham still acted like a timid role player too often. I think Franklin can be a better defender, and he shot 41.7% from 3 in the last 10 games he played last season. But he also only averaged 7.5 minutes a game and within that span didn’t play in 2. Durhams minutes are honestly more likely to be pulled from Lander being able to play the 2 if Rob can get any better at the 1. And Hunter being able to play the 3.


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Timid inconsistent aggressive offensive role player...

Interesting description


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[Stuhoo 80,502]

21 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

I find it funny people still “debate” him. You’d think for all the **** he gives Archie to go learn something on offense he’s learn something about logic.


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1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

Timid inconsistent aggressive offensive role player...

Interesting description


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

 

He just knows I’m right.


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[Brass Cannon 24,709]

So getting lander bumped us up 5 spots in Torvik.  Losing Smith bumped us back 8 spots.  Something I just noticed. 

[finky 298]

On 5/26/2020 at 11:51 AM, iu eyedoc said:

So, the players that got better got better because they got healthy.

Those that didn't get better really did, esp in their area of emphasis.

 

Rob  Phinisee better 2p,3p,ft shooter, more PPG, more assists despite suffering through concussions and a decrease in minutes:

 

Freddie McSwain improved in his  offensiverebounding, defensive rebounding, and blocks:

 

Al Durham better 2pt shooter, better 3pt shooter, better ft shooter, better rebounder, better assists,better steals, all on less minutes :

 

And first year players didn't get better or got worse playing against big ten teams and the 12 ranked SOS then when they were playing the 49th SOS vs non-conference opponents.

 

Boy, you will twist logic into a pretzel or straight up lie to "prove" a point.

 

Oh and by the way, of all those players you claimed got worse, also significantly improved stats per 40 minutes played with the exception of JS.

 

Individual Stats are really neat...the only Stat that really counts

 

2017–18	Indiana	16–15	9–9	T–6th
2018–19	Indiana	19–16	8–12	9th	NIT Quarterfinals
2019–20	Indiana	20–12	9–11	T–10th

 

Almost like we keep finishing worse in the Big Ten......right?   I know I know..we are improving and players are being developed under Archie, their stats are better from year to year, players are better from year to year......they just haven't found the formula to turn that into wins, especially in the Big Ten, where we have to play good teams.  I keep trying to find the bright spot...I just don't think .500 in the Big Ten is acceptable.....

I agree we were going to play in the NCAA this year...based upon our probable seed and how we looked on the road...I doubt we would have played past Thursday or Friday and maybe even Tuesday...I know some of you on here get upset with the criticism, I'm just never going to settle for the current product being put on the floor.

[iu eyedoc 1,954]

3 hours ago, finky said:

Individual Stats are really neat...the only Stat that really counts

 

2017–18	Indiana	16–15	9–9	T–6th
2018–19	Indiana	19–16	8–12	9th	NIT Quarterfinals
2019–20	Indiana	20–12	9–11	T–10th

 

 

Well that would be great if what I was responding to was the team improving, buuut it wasn't. It was in response to LCS flat out lying about specific players getting worse.  I guess you didn't get that part.

Edited May 28, 2020 by iu eyedoc

[finky 298]

1 hour ago, iu eyedoc said:

Well that would be great if what I was responding to was the team improving, buuut it wasn't. It was in response to LCS flat out lying about specific players getting worse.  I guess you didn't get that part.

I got that and I even agreed with you.  Stats can be misleading...McSwain doubled his minutes.....I would hope his points, rebounding etc would improve for example.  I think we all want the same outcome, the house is just pretty divided right now.

[mdn82 25,510]

Individual Stats are really neat...the only Stat that really counts
 

2017–18	Indiana	16–15	9–9	T–6th
2018–19	Indiana	19–16	8–12	9th	NIT Quarterfinals
2019–20	Indiana	20–12	9–11	T–10th

 
Almost like we keep finishing worse in the Big Ten......right?   I know I know..we are improving and players are being developed under Archie, their stats are better from year to year, players are better from year to year......they just haven't found the formula to turn that into wins, especially in the Big Ten, where we have to play good teams.  I keep trying to find the bright spot...I just don't think .500 in the Big Ten is acceptable.....
I agree we were going to play in the NCAA this year...based upon our probable seed and how we looked on the road...I doubt we would have played past Thursday or Friday and maybe even Tuesday...I know some of you on here get upset with the criticism, I'm just never going to settle for the current product being put on the floor.

I don’t think anyone gets upset at the criticism. It’s the over the top complaining about our situation. By your post you would agree it hasn’t been pretty. Or even bad by your definition. Your initial response I quoted had nothing to do with critical. It had everything to do with Justin Smith playing for an actual good coach. It had to do with maybe he will get to play in the tournament. Look at your post here even saying we make it. But going to a new school next year he has a chance. Not just that a top 25 team. Granted preseason polls suck, but if you can’t see why someone would call you out on your post on an IU board I don’t know what to say. You are complaining like people are jumping on you for criticism. No I jumped on you because your post was just false. You can feel how you want about Archie Miller. I don’t honestly care or so many people here. The other stuff was just over the top cause you wanted to whine because you dislike the coach we have. Next time you are asking yourself why poor me? That’s why. But if Big Ten records are all that matter I suppose there is a school to the west that generally feels the same.


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[HoosierAloha 30,068]

I don’t think anyone gets upset at the criticism. It’s the over the top complaining about our situation. By your post you would agree it hasn’t been pretty. Or even bad by your definition. Your initial response I quoted had nothing to do with critical. It had everything to do with Justin Smith playing for an actual good coach. It had to do with maybe he will get to play in the tournament. Look at your post here even saying we make it. But going to a new school next year he has a chance. Not just that a top 25 team. Granted preseason polls suck, but if you can’t see why someone would call you out on your post on an IU board I don’t know what to say. You are complaining like people are jumping on you for criticism. No I jumped on you because your post was just false. You can feel how you want about Archie Miller. I don’t honestly care or so many people here. The other stuff was just over the top cause you wanted to whine because you dislike the coach we have. Next time you are asking yourself why poor me? That’s why. But if Big Ten records are all that matter I suppose there is a school to the west that generally feels the same.


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It’s the hot take too damn prideful to admit I’m wrong society but it really effected sports entertainment. People don’t feel like they’re heard unless they throw crazy shot against the wall time and time again to get a response.

I love the BtownBanners community but damn do we get on some hot take tangents.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

Well that would be great if what I was responding to was the team improving, buuut it wasn't. It was in response to LCS flat out lying about specific players getting worse.  I guess you didn't get that part.

Literally never said anyone got worse.


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[iu eyedoc 1,954]

On 5/26/2020 at 9:58 AM, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yup, Morgan got better. Thompson got healthy. Durham really hasn’t gotten any better. Smith didn’t get any better. McSwain didn’t get better. TJD didn’t get any better last season. Hunter got healthy. Phinisee hasn’t gotten any better. Brunk got worse over the season.


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9 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Literally never said anyone got worse.


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Well , now that has to be a bit embarrassing.

Edited May 29, 2020 by iu eyedoc

[RaceToTheTop 25,616]

7 hours ago, finky said:

Individual Stats are really neat...the only Stat that really counts

 

2017–18	Indiana	16–15	9–9	T–6th
2018–19	Indiana	19–16	8–12	9th	NIT Quarterfinals
2019–20	Indiana	20–12	9–11	T–10th

 

Almost like we keep finishing worse in the Big Ten......right?   I know I know..we are improving and players are being developed under Archie, their stats are better from year to year, players are better from year to year......they just haven't found the formula to turn that into wins, especially in the Big Ten, where we have to play good teams.  I keep trying to find the bright spot...I just don't think .500 in the Big Ten is acceptable.....

I agree we were going to play in the NCAA this year...based upon our probable seed and how we looked on the road...I doubt we would have played past Thursday or Friday and maybe even Tuesday...I know some of you on here get upset with the criticism, I'm just never going to settle for the current product being put on the floor.

I don't think anyone would say that this past year wasn't the best of the three years under CAM regardless of Big Ten finish.  If we are going to talk about the 'only stat that matters', I'd go with postseason.  We went from no postseason, to NIT, to NCAA tournament (bottom line, we were going to be in the NCAA tourney this past year).  Not being happy with the past three years -- which I'm not either -- doesn't change that we have shown improvement.  The degree to which we have improved might not be acceptable, but I don't know how anyone could deny that it has been present.

[Honkyman 1,670]

Yes, there has been incremental improvement under Archie Miller. However, IU fans don't want to see the basketball program inch its way to respectability. IU fans want to see a team now that is exciting and is competitive for the conference title.  One of the reasons for fan frustration is that the offensive doesn't seem well designed or effective. Hopefully, with Lander and TJD leading the way plus a fair amount of experience, the offensive will finally be dynamic instead of lethargic. But if IU is still in the lower half of the Big 10 standings at the end of next year, there will be even greater disappointment even if we make the NCAA tournament (if there is a season and a tournament). Making the tournament is a must but fans want to see a truly improved product.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

Well , now that has to be a bit embarrassing.

Oh no. I said one player got worse... because he did. Which is why his minutes were getting cut. His minutes really started to get cut after the Purdue loss at home. Before then in 23 games he was playing 22.3 minutes, scoring 8 points, grabbing 6 rebounds and shooting 55.6% from the field and 52.2% from the FT line. The last 9 games of the season he only played more than 16 minutes once and that was 28 against Minnesota. In those 9 he played 12.8 mpg, scored 3.9 points, grabbed 2.9 rebounds, shot 40.5% from the floor and 10% from the FT line. He got worse and Archie saw it.


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[Stuhoo 80,502]

3 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Oh no. I said one player got worse... because he did. Which is why his minutes were getting cut. His minutes really started to get cut after the Purdue loss at home. Before then in 23 games he was playing 22.3 minutes, scoring 8 points, grabbing 6 rebounds and shooting 55.6% from the field and 52.2% from the FT line. The last 9 games of the season he only played more than 16 minutes once and that was 28 against Minnesota. In those 9 he played 12.8 mpg, scored 3.9 points, grabbed 2.9 rebounds, shot 40.5% from the floor and 10% from the FT line. He got worse and Archie saw it.


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I think Finky took the baton from you and ran with it...lol.

Anyway, my general take on Smith last year was that he dominated the cupcakes and reverted to his 'effective defender, bad offense' version when we started to play P5 competition. Would have been nice if he stayed, but the combination of Hunter and Thompson is pretty a good option going forward. 

As for Joey Brunk? He had a horrible stretch mid-season, and then seemed to right the ship at the end of the year. I will never criticize a player who is without exception a great young man to have on the team, and he is truly a useful role player on the court too.

 

 

[iu eyedoc 1,954]

27 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Oh no. I said one player got worse... because he did. Which is why his minutes were getting cut. His minutes really started to get cut after the Purdue loss at home. Before then in 23 games he was playing 22.3 minutes, scoring 8 points, grabbing 6 rebounds and shooting 55.6% from the field and 52.2% from the FT line. The last 9 games of the season he only played more than 16 minutes once and that was 28 against Minnesota. In those 9 he played 12.8 mpg, scored 3.9 points, grabbed 2.9 rebounds, shot 40.5% from the floor and 10% from the FT line. He got worse and Archie saw it.


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OK, cool. I was just making clear you make  sh%t up as you go. Glad we are all on the same page now.

Edited May 29, 2020 by iu eyedoc

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

OK, cool. I was just making clear you make  sh%t up as you go. Glad we are all on the same page now.

Literally means give or take a few, duh


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

 
I think Finky took the baton from you and ran with it...lol.
Anyway, my general take on Smith last year was that he dominated the cupcakes and reverted to his 'effective defender, bad offense' version when we started to play P5 competition. Would have been nice if he stayed, but the combination of Hunter and Thompson is pretty a good option going forward. 
As for Joey Brunk? He had a horrible stretch mid-season, and then seemed to right the ship at the end of the year. I will never criticize a player who is without exception a great young man to have on the team, and he is truly a useful role player on the court too.
 
 

You say that, but Brunks worst part of the season was the end.

As for Smith, he didn’t even dominate the cupcakes. His B1G stats were pretty close to his OOC stats. He was oddly consistent in that way. But his inconsistency within games will be something we won’t miss.


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[finky 298]

12 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

I don't think anyone would say that this past year wasn't the best of the three years under CAM regardless of Big Ten finish.  If we are going to talk about the 'only stat that matters', I'd go with postseason.  We went from no postseason, to NIT, to NCAA tournament (bottom line, we were going to be in the NCAA tourney this past year).  Not being happy with the past three years -- which I'm not either -- doesn't change that we have shown improvement.  The degree to which we have improved might not be acceptable, but I don't know how anyone could deny that it has been present.

 

14 hours ago, mdn82 said:

I don’t think anyone gets upset at the criticism. It’s the over the top complaining about our situation. By your post you would agree it hasn’t been pretty. Or even bad by your definition. Your initial response I quoted had nothing to do with critical. It had everything to do with Justin Smith playing for an actual good coach. It had to do with maybe he will get to play in the tournament. Look at your post here even saying we make it. But going to a new school next year he has a chance. Not just that a top 25 team. Granted preseason polls suck, but if you can’t see why someone would call you out on your post on an IU board I don’t know what to say. You are complaining like people are jumping on you for criticism. No I jumped on you because your post was just false. You can feel how you want about Archie Miller. I don’t honestly care or so many people here. The other stuff was just over the top cause you wanted to whine because you dislike the coach we have. Next time you are asking yourself why poor me? That’s why. But if Big Ten records are all that matter I suppose there is a school to the west that generally feels the same.


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My post wasn't false it was my opinion.  My opinion differing from yours doesn't make it false, it means we don't agree.