So can we talk about player development?

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,726]

Me too. I really thought he could come back and be an honorable mention type of player. He played like a savvy vet for his first month last year. He has played like a scared freshman since. I really thought he would be our vocal leader this year as well.
 
 
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He’s playing like his HS ranking after all.

So was his first month of play a mirage? Is it injury/concussion related?

He’s small. He’s not Yogi, but he should be trying to model his game that way.

It’s really an enigma.

I just want more guys to play with confidence and swagger. TJD is the only one.... maybe it’s because he’s the only one that’s actually good/great.


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[Alford Bailey 12,246]

You arent gonna see development out of guys who are limited in ability. Thats why growth has pretty much been limited to Smith because he had raw talent.

[JSHoosier 19,559]

26 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

You arent gonna see development out of guys who are limited in ability. Thats why growth has pretty much been limited to Smith because he had raw talent.

Smith's performance is still dependent on his emotions that day, still seems to be sleep walking a lot.  Not awful like last year though.

[8bucks 6,118]

Remember after Archie hired his staff the consensus was we had the best staff in college basketball. If we had the best staff other staffs must really suck.

Good college basketball players are going to get better just as the gain experience and age. My kids have primary have played soccer and it is the same here. Great staffs get more out of kids than they would have expected to grow with just more experience. My daughter and I met with a college coach last month who said he does not have the same metrics test expectations for every player. If he knows running comes easy for a kid (my daughter in this case) he would increase her metric goals because he wants her to work just as hard.

Just guessing but we have had about 12-15 kids play multiple years under Archie. Who really improved a lot? It is telling that we want to include two kids who have not played multiple years yet.

So far the results suggest the staff is average at best here.


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[ap2345 7,096]

It’s awful. Like really really awful. Smith should be at least a 30% shooter from 3 by now after THREE SUMMERS under Archie.


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You do realize that if Smith went 1 of 2 from 3 next game he would be shooting 30% and if he went 1 of 1 he would be over 30%. He’s not that far off. He just doesn’t shoot many 3’s. He’s not the problem with player development others however are. It is a problem but not really with Smith.


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[pumpfake 3,914]

Justin Smith has improved significantly in the areas of defense and consistency.  IMO, not so much shooting the ball.  Hard to say about Brunk (different system, teammates, etc).  We can judge TJD at the end of the season.

Overall I agree with the OP.  Yes, several of these players may have a limited "ceiling" - but certainly not ALL of them.  Frankly, I've been somewhat disappointed in the skill development of the team in general.  With that said we are a better defensive team, hands down, from the CTC years (but still have an ongoing problem with guarding beyond the arc).

If it's low player potential then, get players with higher potential.  This may already be the case, but it's hard to say with Rob with his injuries, Jerome with his medical situation, or Armaan being a freshman.  I haven't abondoned hope that CAM can/will be a good player development coach but I haven't seen sufficient evidence to say that's the case.

[JSHoosier 19,559]

Anderson has improved.  He needs to start hitting shots (like everyone else), but he's more active on defense and rebounding.

[IUc2016 6,925]

Just now, JSHoosier said:

Anderson has improved.  He needs to start hitting shots (like everyone else), but he's more active on defense and rebounding.

Damezi has really improved. He is one of the most consistent defenders on the team. 

My worry about Damezi has always been that he needs a lot of minutes to have an impact on offense. Meaning that he is a streaky shooter and he may need 2-3 attempts before he is able to get going. 

With that said, he has improved his three point shooting by 6% and has more makes than he did all of last year. And he has made 9-10 free throws on the year. 

He is really going to have to figure out a way to make shots with limited attempts. 

[cthomas 5,917]

19 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

FWIW, I would venture a guess that Butler fans would barely recognize the current version of Joey Brunk. He's currently about double his per minute career Butler rebounding average, and seems to be trending even better as the competition toughens.

 

I read a really good article about Brunk somewhere recently, but can't find it now. He started with basically nothing but tall. Early in his career he couldn't do even one pushup. The extra work he is doing since he got to IU should be an inspiration to everyone on the team. The change in him is more than just a change in systems. I have also read that he and TJD spent a lot of time last summer going at each other in workout sessions. I have to believe that made both of them more prepared for this season. 

[dnbarker21480 16]

Surprised no one mentions Durham in the convo. He was raw his freshmen year and you would have never thought he’d become a shooter. He’s a 3* and has improved very much. We’d have won the Arkansas if not for him being tossed.

The best staff in the world couldn’t make Franklin, Green and Durham world beaters:). Pretty much all solid complimentary players. Franklin of course is only a freshmen, so we’ll need to wait to judge the staffs effort with him!

Bottom line...Archie has to recruit better guards!!! Guys that can slash and play off the ball!! If he can’t recruit better guards then his tenure will be over soon! Here’s to hoping Leal, Geronimo and Galloway can change that! Pretty sure Geronimo is the most dynamic of the group.


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[pumpfake 3,914]

13 minutes ago, dnbarker21480 said:

Surprised no one mentions Durham in the convo. He was raw his freshmen year and you would have never thought he’d become a shooter. He’s a 3* and has improved very much. We’d have won the Arkansas if not for him being tossed.

The best staff in the world couldn’t make Franklin, Green and Durham world beaters:). Pretty much all solid complimentary players. Franklin of course is only a freshmen, so we’ll need to wait to judge the staffs effort with him!

Bottom line...Archie has to recruit better guards!!! Guys that can slash and play off the ball!! If he can’t recruit better guards then his tenure will be over soon! Here’s to hoping Leal, Geronimo and Galloway can change that! Pretty sure Geronimo is the most dynamic of the group.


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AD has improved his shooting to a degree, but plays like a bull in a china shop with the ball.  He tries to drive to the rim and, more often than not, ends up in a turnover or missed shot.  IMO, coaching should have a greater affect on playing under control and smart.

He's one of those players you really want to like because he does play hard, but just can't seem to finish consistently.

I was surprised at the elbow he threw - never saw him as a dirty or overly emotional player, but he was guilty on that instance. I wonder if any further punishment will be forthcoming(?).

 

[Alford Bailey 12,246]

Durham has improved but he has a low ceiling. Ive been saying it for three years but if Al is a starter we arent a very good team.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,182]

Durham has improved but he has a low ceiling. Ive been saying it for three years but if Al is a starter we arent a very good team.

I said Al had peaked already over the summer. I’m sure you can guess what was said to me for that lol.


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[mdn82 25,456]

I said Al had peaked already over the summer. I’m sure you can guess what was said to me for that lol.


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You weren’t here over the summer. You were banned. You didn’t sign up with this user until mid September.


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[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

2 hours ago, pumpfake said:

I was surprised at the elbow he threw - never saw him as a dirty or overly emotional player, but he was guilty on that instance. I wonder if any further punishment will be forthcoming(?).

 

Not to derail too much... but has anything been said about this?

Did Al or the team address it?

Claim it was an accident? Anything?

I watched the game and it looked like he probably did it on purpose, your elbows don't usually raise that high making a spin/cut... but just curious as I never heard anything about it after the game.

[mdn82 25,456]

Man it’s crazy. Just realized we have been here six years. Time flies when you become a football school.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,182]

You weren’t here over the summer. You were banned. You didn’t sign up with this user until mid September.


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September is still the summer. Until the 22nd.


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[mdn82 25,456]

September is still the summer. Until the 22nd.


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Ah, so you came in hot in those first 6 days. No wonder you are so loved.


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[Alford Bailey 12,246]

1 hour ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

Not to derail too much... but has anything been said about this?

Did Al or the team address it?

Claim it was an accident? Anything?

I watched the game and it looked like he probably did it on purpose, your elbows don't usually raise that high making a spin/cut... but just curious as I never heard anything about it after the game.

Im sure it was provoked but you cant do that in the world of instant replay.

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,100]

 

Archie and staff have "developed" Joey Brunk into a banger in the post. They have not developed DeVonte Green into a guard that values possessions.
 

I have come to the conclusion no coaching staff can do that with Devonte

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